Shadowlands has major problems up ahead

[Mafic]

There are issues with every expansion in every game ever made. There is no such thing as a perfect plan.

I think Blizzard is doing its best to make everyone happy, but as we know by this thread and others, that is impossible.

There are a ton of people who Stream Beta. Some are paid, some aren't. Across the board, I see more positive attitudes toward the expansion than negative ones. If it were as horrible as you are making it seem, it would be a universal theme among all streamers, but its not.

I wish you well but if you are going into the expansion with a negative attitude, it is going to suck for you. I'm keeping an open mind and am looking forward to new features and content.


Good luck to you.

I admire your optimism but after BFA we all should have invite more scrutiny to how things develop with all things related to WoW. From what I am seeing most streamers are in agreement that there needs to be changes made to make the new expansion stand out above and beyond what BFA delivered.

[Krimzin]

I admire your optimism but after BFA we all should have invite more scrutiny to how things develop with all things related to WoW. From what I am seeing most streamers are in agreement that there needs to be changes made to make the new expansion stand out above and beyond what BFA delivered.

I agree that BFA was a bit rough. So the bar isnt that high for SL . As for as optimism, whats the point of going into it with a negative outlook, that does no one including myself any good. Ive played every major MMO title in the last 15 years. I always come back to WoW because lets face it, there isnt anything better. Ya there may be short term but in the long run, like Hotel California.. you can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave.

Im going to continue to stay positive because no matter how bad they screw it up, its still gonna be better than anything that is out or coming out anytime soon.

[Caerrona]

Great another I don't like X so my OPINION is now fact and speak for 100% of all players threads. Every 30 seconds the same 5 people on this site circle jerk in a little echo chamber.

[Caerrona]

Because every expansion comes with some BRAND NEW SYSTEM that they claim is the best thing ever, and at the end of the day it's all shit just designed to keep people subbed longer and maximize burnout before people stop paying.

Ah yes cuz blizzard has a gun to everyone head forcing them to farm essences. Quit the game if you mentally unstable enough to think that.

And shadowlands sure does "force" people into grinding with 2 weekly quests and 30 min torghast run. Man how will i ever unsub I NEED TO RUN TORGHAST EVERY WEEK OMG

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

That point 4 just boggles my mind. None of those examples have anything to do with player agency. And how is Torghast not a roguelike? They even removed the key requirement so you could try as much as you want like a roguelike.

If you wanna talk about them not delivering on player agency talk about covenants, the aborted unprune, and talents not being revamped.

[last1214]

I came here to ask this question also, it's damn weird.

That makes 3 of us... Why Op? Seems like a lot of intentional extra work to type "BlizZard."

[munkeyinorbit]

I disagree and here is why.

As a a super casual player I feel like covenants force a choice that should never happen. For Rogue necro bone spike is so good at everything that I can never consider Night Fae, so I am forced into Necro for Bone Spike Plus, Sepsis is constantly bugging against NPCs which makes it a poor choice anyways.

Nobody is forcing you into any covenant. You are the one making the choice. You choose to never choose Fae. It is still your decision to choose that. Stop over exaggerating.

[meroko]

I honestly wouldn't worry about the legacy aspect of this game. The reason it's gone untouched is Blizzard is focused on the actual issues that are important to the game. The same thing happened with the first squish we got and immediately during the first prepatch week, it got fixed. It will be fixed. Also in regards to one piece of loot, if you're getting one piece of loot and you are the only one in the raid, it means Personal Loot is on and legacy is not active. The current system is that if it's more than 10 levels (11 level) old then Legacy Loot rules activate. However with the squish, there are no rules they need to implement and I don't think they are yet.

Also if you get one piece of loot AND you are in a group, Legacy Loot is still active but it gets distributed in a personal loot manner to prevent ninja looting.

Basically, long story short, the legacy issues will get fixed within the first few weeks of prepatch. I would not worry at all.

[Mafic]

That point 4 just boggles my mind. None of those examples have anything to do with player agency. And how is Torghast not a roguelike? They even removed the key requirement so you could try as much as you want like a roguelike.

If you wanna talk about them not delivering on player agency talk about covenants, the aborted unprune, and talents not being revamped.

Torghast has been streamlined and oversimplified to the point it betrays many principles of roguelike content. Beta testers went from loving torghast to heavily disliking the changes to it.

I hesitate to say this but torghast has been over designed to the point it is all island expeditions 2.0 and something you must do weekly and then leave. Which is a shame because it could have been alternative content for many players that do not like the go go go mentality of M+.

[hambone2626]

It is never too late to pull the ripcord and save covenants. Even bellular even agrees with this now and did a lengthy and well made video on this very topic. If they listen to players they can avoid another BFA. Beta testers are voicing that covenants as they are presented right now does not provide the meaningful choices as sold at blizzcon.

Feedback does matter which is why essences became account bound.

yeah only took towards the end of expansion to make them account bound and even then we had to bay 2500 echoes for it which is a crazy amount which means more farming for alts something people don't want to do. Blizzard never listens or waits till the end to do anything.

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BFA sucked for me because of 2 things, azerite traits for one repeated fails from trying to get 480 piece was frustrating and made me quit, second transitioning between specs got really expensive, and there was no incentive to do two specs which is why tanks landscape was so barren this expac.

[schwarzkopf]

Because every expansion comes with some BRAND NEW SYSTEM that they claim is the best thing ever,

Yeah - and most of the time they are awesome, but the awesome thing is if you don't like change then you don't have to play the brand new systems... I avoided warfronts and island in BfA without a hitch.

[Devilyaki]

Really not looking forwards to being grounded for like a year again

[Klueade]

The expansion does fall short in some respects at the face of it. I think friends, years of commitment, and story keeps people enthralled over the occasional lack luster implementations.

[Belloc]

I disagree and here is why.

As a a super casual player I feel like covenants force a choice that should never happen. For Rogue necro bone spike is so good at everything that I can never consider Night Fae, so I am forced into Necro for Bone Spike Plus, Sepsis is constantly bugging against NPCs which makes it a poor choice anyways.

How exactly are you forced into Bone Spike? Because it's good? You, by your own admission, are a super casual player. You're not playing hardcore content, so why should anyone care what covenant abilities you have?

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Torghast has been streamlined and oversimplified to the point it betrays many principles of roguelike content. Beta testers went from loving torghast to heavily disliking the changes to it.

I hesitate to say this but torghast has been over designed to the point it is all island expeditions 2.0 and something you must do weekly and then leave. Which is a shame because it could have been alternative content for many players that do not like the go go go mentality of M+.

Keep in mind that Torghast is likely to receive regular content updates throughout the expansion cycle. It might be oversimplified now, but that's fine for the beginning of the expansion.

[Lolites]

Yeah - and most of the time they are awesome, but the awesome thing is if you don't like change then you don't have to play the brand new systems... I avoided warfronts and island in BfA without a hitch.

no no, you were FORCED to do islands, bcs it was fastest way of grinding azerite! and people would rather do something they hate for hour than something they enjoy for two, and then complain about it...

[kaminaris]

Probably because it’s often true. Although Legion wasn’t despised this way. Some people were unhappy with some things which is always the case but it wasn’t seen as worst ever at all. I think WoD and now BFA will always take that cake.

You must have been absent from forums at that time. Guess you missed multiple capped threads about camera changes until ION canon himself had to respond and yield... And trillion complaints bout arcanocrystal, rng, AP. Speculations about legiondary softcap (someone even made simulator lol), uncapped titanforging, having 3 gear slots etc...

[mauserr]

Hope not, covenants being a meaningful choice is one of the best parts about Shadowloands.

There are a lot of other tweaks they can do before destroying the system totally as you suggest.

There's no meaningful choice. A lot of classes and specs have a BiS covenant for pretty much all content already locked in, there is no choice, but you do you I guess. Druid, ie. the night fae spell flurry.

[Caerrona]

There's no meaningful choice. A lot of classes and specs have a BiS covenant for pretty much all content already locked in, there is no choice, but you do you I guess. Druid, ie. the night fae spell flurry.

Oh whoops, looks like you spilled your subjective opinions all over the place. Better tidy that up, all opinions are 100% facts around here.

What you complainers don't seem to understand is that picking the best covenant is your "choice". You are choosing to pick based on power instead of (insert whatever you want here).

I am 100% picking the best covenant for m+. That is my choice. Someone else may choose for tmog or mounts, that is their choice.

[Sharnie786]

The "major" problems seem to affect mostly the top 0.1% of raiders and the pseudo-elitist idiots that think they are like the 0.1% of raiders.

Thus.. not really Major problems at all, as the game would likely be far better off without them.

Lol, so the majority of MMO-C users and official forums are 0.1%.

You do realise the same was said for BfA and that saw a massive decline in players? Legion lost a lot of people in the beginning but had a strong playerbase throughout

[Nyel]

And you know that how? Not giving you everything you want does not = not giving their best.

I know that by looking at the stuff they're bringing in with Shadowlands in general, the state of the beta, the near release date and their efforts to fix underlying problems. A look at their class design is telling also - there you can see that they're neither going all in nor giving their best. For most specs they did the absolute minimum.