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  1. #21
    I just don't understand why they can't increase everyone's haste by a lot baseline, nerf haste rating gains so it doesn't get too insane later in the expansion, and then balance around that.

    Almost everybody prefers faster gameplay where they're not sitting around waiting for things to happen, no?

    We can still feel like a garbage class when all our other stats are 0.1% but haste is too important from a gameplay perspective to have it be so annoyingly low.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Duskpanther View Post
    So to let me understand since nobody invited me to beta... MM hunters damage is fine now but rotation/abilities/sinergy sucks ? (OFF topic, what about BM ?) Just would like to understand better before I waste 1-2 weeks leveling to 60 to just then discover that as every time the class I leveled and invested time is shit and I got to relevel another ...
    The problem with MM specifically is that the bad design decisions that BfA talents patched over are now very apparent, specifically so that our main proc Precise Shots is probably not going to be used at this point, simply because the focus cost is so high that by using it we won't have enough focus to use Aimed Shot, which either forces us to use Stead yshot, further wasting Aimed Shot charges, or do nothing.
    Rapid Fire is still the most out of place ability we have, with the lowered channel time making the rotation during Trueshot less annoying, but which also lowers the amount of Focus you got from it, further relegating it to a useless ability. MM theorycrafters are already trying to figure out a way to excise it from the rotation completely, which should tell you all you need to know about it.

    All of these problems compund the problems with the talents, which currently strongly favor passives that do not change your rotation in the slightest, simply because we do not have the Focus or time to use other abilities, nor are talents like Steady Focus ever going to make us use Steady Shot.

    In short, MM is broken, and there is nothing so far that seems to change that.


    There is also quite a lot of small problems, like Hunter's Mark still being annoying and a general button bloat, which only serves ot create this impermeable miasma of abilities that do not interract with eachother in any meaningful way.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Duskpanther View Post
    So to let me understand since nobody invited me to beta... MM hunters damage is fine now but rotation/abilities/sinergy sucks ? (OFF topic, what about BM ?) Just would like to understand better before I waste 1-2 weeks leveling to 60 to just then discover that as every time the class I leveled and invested time is shit and I got to relevel another ...
    It's too early to call anything about damage. This thread is specifically talking about the issues MM has with gameplay - that it is focus starved even with good haste levels. This is something that might be fixed before release, you really just have to do your homework right before the expac hits.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Nah nah, see... I live by one simple creed: You might catch more flies with honey, but to catch honeys you gotta be fly.

  4. #24
    Shockingly this spec now feels like absolute ass. Who could've foreseen that happening after they, for some unknown reason, decided to make the most boring ability of the spec, Steady Shot, a more integral part of the rotation.

    Much like it was the case with Shadow they have absolutely 0 fucking clue what they're supposed to be doing with the hot mess that is MM. For fucks sake, the most immersive spec identity they can come up with for a fucking sniper marksman archer is 1 shot that is aimed, 1 that is steady and one that is... arcane? And then a bunch of spray and pray bullshit on top of that, huge. The only difference to Shadows is that MM is easily balanceable so they're not really forced to come up with groundbreaking rework shit and they can instead just wing it with bullshit changes.

    Since SV is also in a horribly horrible state I'm expecting a pretty big Hunter rework with 10.0. Enjoy your time until then.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasparde View Post
    Shockingly this spec now feels like absolute ass. Who could've foreseen that happening after they, for some unknown reason, decided to make the most boring ability of the spec, Steady Shot, a more integral part of the rotation.
    I don't even have much of a problem using Steady Shot, the problem is that using SS with its long cast time always caps you on AiS charges and leaves no room for Precise Shots usage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duskpanther View Post
    So to let me understand since nobody invited me to beta... MM hunters damage is fine now but rotation/abilities/sinergy sucks ? (OFF topic, what about BM ?) Just would like to understand better before I waste 1-2 weeks leveling to 60 to just then discover that as every time the class I leveled and invested time is shit and I got to relevel another ...
    My Details addon was not working for the few instances I did with MM so I cannot confirm if I was topping meters or not. Will try to have a dps meter working today and confirm.

  6. #26
    Did 10-12 random dungeon runs as MM, was topping meters, at round 33-36% dmg done and here are some observations:

    I believe the intent behind HM is to use it perma on single target fights (in which, you don't have to refresh it) and on trash packs on the most ''meaty'' add, or high priority add and cleave off of him. I don't think the developers are balancing our AoE with HM upkeep of 100% in mind, but a statement would help.

    This was the way i was using it most of BfA (and i had that talent 99%of the time, didn't play in 8.1).

    The spec indeed feels slower, not only due to increased focus demands, but from the general lack of stats in the beginning of an expansion. But, for now, it hits hard - and it has short bursts where your dmg feels noticeable.

    I was playing with Resonating Arrow for two reasons - it seems more useful in all types of content, our crit is higher by default (in fresh lvl 60 mix of blue-greens) i was at 20% crit chance, with RA that is 50% crit chance for 10 seconds and should by all means and purposes be treated as a mini CD, which you can now macro with Trueshot.

    The second reason is it really looks wesome, both the area and on char effect. Would still rethink the choice vs venthyr on live.

    I believe focus management should be a part of the gameplay, and i don't mind casting SS. But we should really get precise shot focus free back, since this way we will continue to ignore most of PS procs and Trueshot will feel sluggish.
    Last edited by Jamais; 2020-09-04 at 01:36 PM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Krimzin View Post
    So tell yourself all you like that its about lol Synergy and gameplay, but if MM were at the top of the dps list you wouldn't have a problem.
    I'd prefer if they increased focus regen but reduced the damage of some shots. So no dps increase, but smoother gameplay.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamais View Post
    The spec indeed feels slower, not only due to increased focus demands, but from the general lack of stats in the beginning of an expansion. But, for now, it hits hard - and it has short bursts where your dmg feels noticeable.
    Been playing a tiny bit on the PTR with a mythic geared MM, stacked haste so I imagine the character I am using is about as good as it will get for Haste considering the new diminishing returns. Coupled with the azerite traits being similar to the cnduits I have seen I feel like what I am playing on the PTR will be similar to Beta.

    In light of that, seeing as I have no desire for using Precise shot procs at all, do you think that is what will happen on live as well?`Especially seeing as the best legendary and best conduits all seem to be the ones copied directly from the Rapid Fire Azerite traits? Because the spec as is keeps trying my patience seeing how broken it is.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dexx View Post
    I'd prefer if they increased focus regen but reduced the damage of some shots. So no dps increase, but smoother gameplay.
    I feel liker a more focus or lower focus costs would only mask the underlying problem, that being that MM has no defining gameplay moment on which to build their gameplay around.

    Honestly I wish the devs went back to at least the Uldir machine gun build for inspiration if they feel they need to keep as much of the BfA gameplay as possible. A spec defined by buffing their signature ability for massive damage could be fun, and could additionally lead to some actual interesting talents.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  9. #29
    "We noticed you weren't spending 50% of your time casting Shitty Shot hoping to one day pay for an Aimed Shot, we fixed it! Enjoy the return of being completely unable to put pressure on anything! Don't like it? Go whistle and roar at your buggy little AI that we're too incompetent to fix, that's much more fun and gives us a class to contain all the retards who think this is Pokemon!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  10. #30
    The good news is it won't matter in dungeons because we'll all be forced to play BM for the whole expansion thanks to the drums nerf.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    The good news is it won't matter in dungeons because we'll all be forced to play BM for the whole expansion thanks to the drums nerf.
    You od know that MM can still summon a hero pet, right? It isnt always optimal, but its hardly crippling your DPS either.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    You od know that MM can still summon a hero pet, right? It isnt always optimal, but its hardly crippling your DPS either.
    Takes 6 seconds to summon a pet now. Seems pretty crippling.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    You od know that MM can still summon a hero pet, right? It isnt always optimal, but its hardly crippling your DPS either.
    True, and while it won’t hurt your damage too much, MM will still be forced to stop dps before a pack dies to have the pet ready for Hero/Lust on a boss, the Hunter will miss damage on the boss bringing the pet at the start, the Hunter will nerf their overall damage by keeping a pet out full time during the dungeon, or the group will have to wait for the Hunter to get the pet out for the boss. None of those will feel good to do.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    Takes 6 seconds to summon a pet now. Seems pretty crippling.
    So summon the BL pet BEFORE the fight... Also I thought it was increased to 6 seconds then decreased to 4 seconds. Not that 4 seconds is that much better.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    Takes 6 seconds to summon a pet now. Seems pretty crippling.
    It takes 4 seconds now actually. And I believe that is to revive it, not summon it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Last I checked summoning a hunter pet has always been instant unless it is dead. It is dismissing it that requires a short channel time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And indeed, went on the PTR to check. Still instant to summon a hunter pet, even for MM.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Krimzin View Post
    The chances of Blizzard making 3 solid specs for one class is Zero.

    Shadowlands Warlock says hi.

    3 specs that all play great and do great damage and each has multiple viable builds.

    They also have good to great Covenant abilities and legendaries just for the icing on the cake.

    They all have their issues but it does not take away from how fun all 3 specs are.
    Last edited by DeiVias; 2020-09-06 at 04:23 PM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by DeiVias View Post
    Shadowlands Warlock says hi.

    3 specs that all play great and do great damage and each has multiple viable builds.

    They also have good to great Covenant abilities and legendaries just for the icing on the cake.

    They all have their issues but it does not take away from how fun all 3 specs are.

    Demonology is still as awful as ever.

  18. #38
    Pet with Marksmanship is terrible. It only works on Single target. If the attacks had a splash effect it would be ok, but it doesnt.

    10% damage is not crippling but it's pretty significant for a spec that relies on big aimed shot hits.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Pet with Marksmanship is terrible. It only works on Single target. If the attacks had a splash effect it would be ok, but it doesnt.

    10% damage is not crippling but it's pretty significant for a spec that relies on big aimed shot hits.
    It certainly isnt ideal, but the point is that MM hunters can in fact use hero, they might have to take a tiny hit to their DPS unlike all the others, but compared to the new drums it is still perfectly valid to have an MM because of the hero.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    Demonology is still as awful as ever.
    You are going around in multiple threads saying it takes 6 seconds to summon a pet, i'm gonna go with my own play experience on beta and the play experiences of top Warlocks and go with my original post.

    It's not borderline broken since it does not take Decimating Bolt but it still does great damage and flows well.

    It might be awful to you personally but that's not the reality of the state of the spec.
    Last edited by DeiVias; 2020-09-06 at 06:42 PM.

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