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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Engal View Post
    A scenario like a Trial to judge you worthy would be neat. You have two steps to do and it's one step a week or one step every 2 or 3 days.

    The scenario would revolves around the covenant flavor.
    That does sound more interesting, but seeing a you're intended to be discouraged from just flipping around, you suggestion does also sound particularly easy and relatively trivial.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarethion View Post
    If these real world groups were literally faced with an existencial threat and allowing some new guy go back and forth between them would significantly increase their chances of survival, they wouldn't give a toss about oaths or loyalty.
    You think you are very smart, don't you.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    That does sound more interesting, but seeing a you're intended to be discouraged from just flipping around, you suggestion does also sound particularly easy and relatively trivial.
    It's not, since its time gated.

    The actual system is boring AND time gated.

    In my mind, there are two solution for this.

    1- Not time gated but hard and long ( many WQ , fillling bars, challenge and boss to find and kill + dungeons)

    2- Time gated but easy and enjoyable. ( scenario available every 2/3 days / weeks and Funny with lots of lore flavor )

    the actual system is double time gated ( spending time doing WQ and filling bars + waiting for the next step ) , boring, maybe hard, and long.
    Last edited by Engal; 2020-09-06 at 12:59 PM.

  4. #84
    Seems fine if you only play one type of content and only one spec, i guess anyone who plays a hybrid can get fucked

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Engal View Post
    Reasonable as of now, but imagine it being a four steps campaign of sort? It will quickly become really annoying. I understand the need of it being RP and not a light decision to take, but it should be made more... interesting?
    Agree with that notion, that they could have fleshed it out a bit more. Its somewhat a lazy move with only WQs to be what you do to change, it could have been something unique or special for each Covenant. I guess its supposed to feel boring, but personally I think it could have been made more RPish if you like.
    - Enough prattling. Let them come. We shall grind their bones to dust.

  6. #86
    Shadowlands looking worse each week. Typical blizzard philosophy lol

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarethion View Post
    If these real world groups were literally faced with an existencial threat and allowing some new guy go back and forth between them would significantly increase their chances of survival, they wouldn't give a toss about oaths or loyalty.
    just like every country has done an awesome job with the pandemic, leaving aside politics or economical topics and focusing on people not dying, right?
    "There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man."
    — Patrick Rothfuss (The Kingkiller Chronicle)

  8. #88
    Just that there is swapping of covenants should be a sign that they don't belong in the game. It's not the fact that you CAN switch them it's that blizzard let you do it which again reinforces the problem with them in the first place. I know when it comes to blizzard it was NEVER intended for the player to be able to switch them but they gave in and now we have this ridiculous chore involved in "swapping" them with a grind and all the bells and whistles that comes with it.

  9. #89
    Imagine being upset that you have to do WORLD QUESTS of all things??? We're stuck doing them through the duration of the expansion anyway so what's the issue? You people will complain about absolutely anything

  10. #90
    #pulltheripcord is what everyone should be on board with. It is fine to have the signature ability tied to each one but not the class abilities.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Wait so you’re suggesting that just because they have similar end goals it doesn’t make sense for them to take umbrage with people who jump teams? Like that’s not something that actually happens in the real world where even groups under the same banner still value team loyalty.
    Since you're talking about real world comparisons. If every single mother on the birthing table gives birth, she pushes the baby out except that we never saw the baby come out and they're no longer inside of the mother. Put that on a global scale across every mother, every birth. What the hell just happened to the babies? I'd be confident in saying that everyone would be working together to figure what the fuck is going on here.

  12. #92
    The mistake made here is one of inherent design. There’s no way to implement covenants in a way that makes sense lore-wise while simultaneously making them accessible.

    Let’s get real: these are timegated talent trees. They should have simply revamped the talent trees instead of creating covenants. The thought isn’t on player engagement or happiness, it’s always on how the MAU time-played metric can be artificially inflated from a small amount of actual content. The frustration in all these forums and discussions is circling this actual problem, because most players don’t see these underlying motivations on Blizz’s part.

    Of course these restrictions will be removed in a later patch, probably 9.2. But by then the damage will be done. This product’s management is so dense they fail to realize they could increase their precious metrics in much simpler ways, without alienating half (or more) of the player base. When the Game Director has to go on YT and tell people they “might pull the ripcord” then there’s clearly a massive PR problem before the product has even shipped.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by oldgeezer View Post
    Think of it as trying to regain citizenship of a country after you've renounced it. I needs to be that hard really, with multiple layers of visa petitions and legal fees.

    8 world quests? Bunch of casuals.
    Some countries have dual citizenship... Why not have a quad citizenship here?

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgran View Post
    Some countries have dual citizenship... Why not have a quad citizenship here?
    Its not even actually citizenship, because we still have shared capital city. Its just a mere factions, which even do not hate eact other, so all the restrictions isnt lorewise.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Binaris View Post
    How ids it a betrayal to switch covenants when they aren't opposing forces? This whole piss poor system makes no sense. If you are going to fabricate a reason to screw the players, at least justify it with story. We are meant to be heroes to all 4 covenants. So we are meant to believe that the other 3, who exist because of our heroics, are upset that we were MORE heroic to the other one. They are the afterlife Karen societies.
    look it like the US military, you have 4 branches of service that work together but they have different jobs the perform same wit the covenants. leaving you covenant for another would be like leaving the army for the navy.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Thats your opinion. I think Covenants are great so thats a reasonable solution in my opinion. To swap is fast, so its close to being objectively reasonable as well. Its very reasonable, in any way or form. Looking forward to Covenants.

    Must have been quite awful doing those WQs in a game where everything is horrible. I've seen you and a few others who has complained about EVERYTHING the last 4 years. Why do you keep playing? I mean I thought 8.3 was the worst patch since 6.1, so I stopped quite early then stopped my sub for a while. But if things were as bad as some people have made it the last 4-6 years, I wouldn't bother with this shit anymore, at all. Genuninly curious.
    Didn't complain much at all about BfA, it was a clear step up compared to Legion.
    Haven't been able to play much in BfA though but 8.3 worked well for me and the removal of WF/TF was pretty nice.

    Covenents are not great though. It's a reputation that locks you into doing just one thing on a 2 week CD. It adds litteraly nothing for you. Having power locked behind them either doesn't matter to you or ruins the game for you but no one benefits from it, litteraly no one. Well, unless you get a kick out of ruining the game for people but it's poor design in any case.

    The WQs are quite boring yes. It was a rather poor idea in Legion, they added nothing in BfA and they even managed to make them less fun in Shadowlands.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Radazar View Post
    look it like the US military, you have 4 branches of service that work together but they have different jobs the perform same wit the covenants. leaving you covenant for another would be like leaving the army for the navy.
    I don't want to "leave army for the navy", just give me ability to call air strike or naval support when its needed.

  18. #98
    They think covenants are good because it's 'meaningful choice', and it's the friction that makes it meaningful. This means they think it's the 0/8 world quests fill the bar grind it up creates meaning, which is insane obviously -- they can't imagine any way to impart weight, other than the threat of you having to play more of their game.

    Here's the thing about 'choice': it's not good. Picking is what's good. People like Torghast. The modifiers you get are not 'meaningful choice', which is maybe exactly why they're fun. Why can't I have the simple pleasure of going and picking my covenant, whatever happens later? Why can't I go and pick another one if I feel like it? ("YOU CAN..": not the way I mean it.) Customizing your class whenever you want kills 'choice' -- how, again? Why can't the impactful choice be what I do in the simulation?

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Didn't complain much at all about BfA, it was a clear step up compared to Legion.
    Haven't been able to play much in BfA though but 8.3 worked well for me and the removal of WF/TF was pretty nice.

    Covenents are not great though. It's a reputation that locks you into doing just one thing on a 2 week CD. It adds litteraly nothing for you. Having power locked behind them either doesn't matter to you or ruins the game for you but no one benefits from it, litteraly no one. Well, unless you get a kick out of ruining the game for people but it's poor design in any case.

    The WQs are quite boring yes. It was a rather poor idea in Legion, they added nothing in BfA and they even managed to make them less fun in Shadowlands.
    Thats the issue though, as you say it ruins the game for people. You think its ruining the game, while others say it is a very good thing and will make the game better. So you could apply that to everything as something in WoW or in games in general will make some happy but some do not get happy. So you would say one thing you like, its fine that it ruins the game for others, but the other way is indeed ruining the game because it is something you don't like? Being hyperbolic does not help any argument.

    Covenant is bad for you, while its good for me. We can start there. The thing is that the two weeks you talk about is something thats not really meant to happen. The system works like when you pick something, thats something you have been thinking is good for you. That it takes two weeks to change or change back is just a penalty for going back and forth. Thats why I think its a sound decision. Its not punishing enough for it to feel horrible, but still you get to feel it.

    It does not lock you into one thing. Let's take me and Arena in 8.3. Corruption being the most imbalanced thing we have had in the game when it comes to borrowed power. I got some awesome corruption for doing Arenas, and still got stomped by players with both lesser gear and corruption. You know why? Because they were better than me. Because I do not do well in Arenas because I barely do it. Skill/Practice/Class > Rest.

    Saying that, I know tuning is a mess on the beta. I have made a few posts in another threads that Blizzard needs to be on the ball NOW, not in the first week of Castle Nathria. Blizzard has been notoriously bad at tuning stuff like this before it's live, and it's an objectively valid criticism. They need to get it done before the game is live, or they are in the deep. People who wants to improve performance in every kind of way in the game needs to be heard too. I am pretty casual, but want to be best in what I do myself, just within the limit of fun. Because fun will always be what's matter most to me. But when something is 20% more throughput than the next, it does not feel good.

    So tuning, definitely agree, needs to be better. Covenants as the design on it's own though, I think it's great. If they get the tuning done properly, I am gonna have a good time.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2020-09-06 at 04:11 PM.
    - Enough prattling. Let them come. We shall grind their bones to dust.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggles Worth View Post
    Since you're talking about real world comparisons. If every single mother on the birthing table gives birth, she pushes the baby out except that we never saw the baby come out and they're no longer inside of the mother. Put that on a global scale across every mother, every birth. What the hell just happened to the babies? I'd be confident in saying that everyone would be working together to figure what the fuck is going on here.
    Yeah and when global pandemics threaten the entire planet, everyone puts aside their differences to work together regardless of nationality, political affiliation, etc...

    You can try to come up with as many theoretical examples as you like where the ideal solution would be for everyone to pool their resources and work together, but reality doesn’t work like that. And the argument isn’t about what SHOULD happen, it’s about whether it even makes sense for Covenants to act this way. I don’t need hypotheticals. People act this way IRL so it’s not far fetched for Covenants to do so as well.

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