Page 1 of 37
1
2
3
11
... LastLast
  1. #1

    Will Blizzard nerf your "meaningful choice"?

    So how likely is it that you will make your "meaningful choice" of choosing a covenant with a strong ability and then Blizzard will just nerf that ability 2 weeks later right before the raid is released?

    Is it really a "meaningful choice" if Blizzard can just change the baseline of your choice?

  2. #2
    If - like overwhelming majority - play up to Heroic Raid/M+15/PVP below high rating, just pick abilities/fantasy/transmog package that you like the most.

    If you're min-maxers or play cutting edge difficulty, you will switch covenant after nerf and regrind Renown, like you grind every expansion.

  3. #3
    Unlikely. Due to commitment nature of covenant and legendaries, what you can expect is that they will try to do vast majority of nerfs and buffs before launch.

    Then once we're heroic week they will do their 5% here and there and maybe tone down some combos that go out of hand, but in such manner that they will still remain strong.

    Commitment makes it hard for them to make sweeping changes, it will be like in BFA - where if something is getting out of hand they will tap it a bit and do their usual "at this point we'd rather not make drastic changes, because setups are done", just like they did with 8.2 and 8.3.

    It's basically going to be Fire Mage or Shadow Priest situation all over again, where they won't be really nerfing them aside from token 5%, even if they seem to snowball hard. Then when 9.1 comes they will do big adjustments with generous heads up.

  4. #4
    Covenants mean more to me than just dps output, so I don't care

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Covenants mean more to me than just dps output, so I don't care
    no one is buying that.

    OP brings up a good point.

    What is choice when decisions made above change what you picked through no power or player agency of your own.
    Comes a time when we all gotta die...even kings.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Volatilis View Post
    no one is buying that.

    OP brings up a good point.

    What is choice when decisions made above change what you picked through no power or player agency of your own.
    You think that everyone who plays the game care about maximum output? You really think that? For real?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    You think that everyone who plays the game care about maximum output? You really think that? For real?
    Why does it have to be everyone?

    I care about doing my best in group. And so do a lot of other people.
    Comes a time when we all gotta die...even kings.

  8. #8
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,226
    depends on how hard it is to change covenant I guess. would be an even bigger shitshow if they nerfed some of the soulbinds and conduits

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Volatilis View Post
    Why does it have to be everyone?

    I care about doing my best in group. And so do a lot of other people.
    What? You literally said no one is buying that he don't care about dps compared to covenant he likes...

    Now suddenly you back off from that statement and mention that you care and so does others... Yeah, some care, some don't. It's not difficult to "buy" that concept.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    You think that everyone who plays the game care about maximum output? You really think that? For real?
    If it doesn't matter, then why do the restriction? People who care are punished and people who don't care, don't care. The covenant choice restriction makes no sense from a lore perspective and it makes no sense from a gameplay perspective either.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    You think that everyone who plays the game care about maximum output? You really think that? For real?
    I think most people know normies put in zero effort and expect to be carried. And when blizz makes that a challenge they cry on forums about it
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    If - like overwhelming majority - play up to Heroic Raid/M+15/PVP below high rating, just pick abilities/fantasy/transmog package that you like the most.

    If you're min-maxers or play cutting edge difficulty, you will switch covenant after nerf and regrind Renown, like you grind every expansion.
    But I still think the overwhelming majority care about having optimal conditions. If someone goes into a M+ even if it's a casual +15 they still want to use the best ability. The idea that only the 1% care about power is a myth.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    You think that everyone who plays the game care about maximum output? You really think that? For real?
    But it's not just about "maximum output". Casuals care about having the right abilities. You can compared it to essences. Most people rather want to use Focusing Iris compare to Condensed Life-Force when doing a M+. But they probably don't want to be locked into Focusing Iris in raids. It's not only about the 1%. Most people care about these types of abilities.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    If it doesn't matter, then why do the restriction? People who care are punished and people who don't care, don't care. The covenant choice restriction makes no sense from a lore perspective and it makes no sense from a gameplay perspective either.
    You are arguing a different point...?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    But I still think the overwhelming majority care about having optimal conditions. If someone goes into a M+ even if it's a casual +15 they still want to use the best ability. The idea that only the 1% care about power is a myth.

    - - - Updated - - -



    But it's not just about "maximum output". Casuals care about having the right abilities. You can compared it to essences. Most people rather want to use Focusing Iris compare to Condensed Life-Force when doing a M+. But they probably don't want to be locked into Focusing Iris in raids. It's not only about the 1%. Most people care about these types of abilities.
    Sure, but person in question cared about the covenant. Which is the context an which he said "no one is buying that". Which is bs because of course there are people picking a covenant other than gameplay. Mogs, theme, story etc etc..it's not a difficult concept to understand that some don't care about the ability being nerfed or not.

    Why does everyone act like their bubble is the only thing that exists?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    You think that everyone who plays the game care about maximum output? You really think that? For real?
    well apparently its the only thing that gives covenants meaning since unlocking the player power would mean "removing the meaningful choice"


    blizzard is going to nerf the abilities day 1

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    You are arguing a different point...?
    it's the same point. You're saying there are people who don't care about minmaxing numbers. That is true, but that is also irrelevant. People who don't care about performance also won't care about whether you're performance locked or not.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    I think most people know normies put in zero effort and expect to be carried. And when blizz makes that a challenge they cry on forums about it
    I'm not getting your point but non-normies are crying as much if not more. Especially about miniscule things that don't matter. Everyone cries for different reasons.

    Which I guess highlights the concept that people care about different things. So understanding some don't care about x even if you think it's the most important thing in the world shouldn't be difficult at allm

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Sure, but person in question cared about the covenant. Which is the context an which he said "no one is buying that". Which is bs because of course there are people picking a covenant other than gameplay. Mogs, theme, story etc etc..it's not a difficult concept to understand that some don't care about the ability being nerfed or not.

    Why does everyone act like their bubble is the only thing that exists?
    I agree. It makes no sense to argue about someone elses opinion.

    But I think what the guys meant, was to say that the "meaningful choice" loses all its value if Blizzard changes the baseline after the choice has been made.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    But I still think the overwhelming majority care about having optimal conditions. If someone goes into a M+ even if it's a casual +15 they still want to use the best ability. The idea that only the 1% care about power is a myth.
    They don't switch class/spec/race after hotfix (of course I'm talking about majority of players I came across or heard about, obviously I don't have data from millions of people). Some people switch talent that are almost on the fly change, but most just pick them from icy veins and never change them for whole season or even expac. People just won't bother to switch covenants if it require any work.

    And "market" on PUG world will have to bend to people. No one required from you best or even good legendary during Legion, cause it required either very good luck or puting many hours into your character.

    Covenants are real problem for cutting edge players that have to get maximum output, and "problem" for min-maxers that either copy what mythic raiders do or just min-maxing for whatever reason is their main goal.

    Also I said "up to M+15". M+15 is not very casual thing, at best it's end goal for casual (but skilled and experienced) people.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    I'm not getting your point but non-normies are crying as much if not more. Especially about miniscule things that don't matter. Everyone cries for different reasons.

    Which I guess highlights the concept that people care about different things. So understanding some don't care about x even if you think it's the most important thing in the world shouldn't be difficult at allm
    Nah normies love this because they can pick thier covenaut based on what toy or xmog they want. While the mean 1%'s have to pick the ugly covenaut with the best numbers. So while they get carried in dungeons and thier LFR they can keep being useless but look cool with thier chosen design
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    it's the same point. You're saying there are people who don't care about minmaxing numbers. That is true, but that is also irrelevant. People who don't care about performance also won't care about whether you're performance locked or not.
    You base that on your own assumption. I would argue the ones that have been vocal about keeping the lock often talks about rpg choice. They don't care about min max portion, but still care about the lock. So I don't see where you get that argument except from your own fiction.
    If your argument is based on assuming another's position its not a strong argument.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Nah normies love this because they can pick thier covenaut based on what toy or xmog they want. While the mean 1%'s have to pick the ugly covenaut with the best numbers. So while they get carried in dungeons and thier LFR they can keep being useless but look cool with thier chosen design
    Agree people do. What is your point?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •