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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    "Nothing remained [of Ner'zhul] but a wail of sorrow," is pretty much conclusive that all that was left of him was the memory, the echo we later see in Legion. Adding to that the developers' statement of purpose from the BlizzCon Q&A it becomes pretty clear that the intent is that Ner'zhul is functionally dead. Arthas tore him asunder, ripping away both his sanity and his essence, with only that vestige of an echo left.

    But this is also World of Warcraft so I think they *always* seek to leave a door open, if only the tiniest fraction so to speak, for practically any character to conceivably return.
    but that echo of ner'zhul we encountered in Legion was far more than just merely a "wail of sorrow". it was actively influencing the echo of arthas, and while we killed arthas's echo, ner'zhuls teleported away at the end while cursing us
    so therefore i kinda doubt this was it, it was more like a seperate memory left behind, bc of their connection to frostmourne
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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Sagenod View Post
    If he was bound to the Helm of Domination which was broken, what happened to his spirit? My guess is the Maw.
    The moment Arthas put that helm on his spirit fused with that of Ner'zhul; there was no 2 spirits, there was only one... and you've seen it dropped into the maw.

  3. #43
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    but that echo of ner'zhul we encountered in Legion was far more than just merely a "wail of sorrow". it was actively influencing the echo of arthas, and while we killed arthas's echo, ner'zhuls teleported away at the end while cursing us
    so therefore i kinda doubt this was it, it was more like a seperate memory left behind, bc of their connection to frostmourne
    They're echoes, just figments of an entirely past event - like memories albeit somewhat interactive. It's not a live event, it's just a magical form of Memorex. Specifically, it's the memory of Arthas claiming Frostmourne initially, and Ner'zhul exhorting him to do so. When you interfere with the memory's course both echoes attack you, but ultimately neither of them are "alive" in any real sense.
    Echo of Ner'zhul says: Take up the blade, Arthas Menethil. Embrace your destiny!
    Echo of Arthas Menethil says: Yes... you are right... I will bear any curse to have my revenge...

    Arthas turns to face the direction the player came from.

    Echo of Arthas Menethil says: What? An intruder! You won't stop me! Frostmourne will be mine!

    The Echo of Arthas then becomes hostile and attacks the player while Ner'zhul teleports to the other side of the room.

    Echo of Arthas Menethil says: Nothing will stand in the way of my vengeance!
    Echo of Ner'zhul says: How dare you interfere! His soul belongs to ME!
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    They're echoes, just figments of an entirely past event - like memories albeit somewhat interactive. It's not a live event, it's just a magical form of Memorex. Specifically, it's the memory of Arthas claiming Frostmourne initially, and Ner'zhul exhorting him to do so. When you interfere with the memory's course both echoes attack you, but ultimately neither of them are "alive" in any real sense.
    Exactly my point. All that happens there doesnt really point to that memory inside the blade being connected to ner'zhul remnants in the helm
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  5. #45
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    Exactly my point. All that happens there doesnt really point to that memory inside the blade being connected to ner'zhul remnants in the helm
    All that's left in the Helm is just Ner'zhul's "wail of sorrow," which Arthas could simply ignore. Take the passage from Chronicle Vol. 3 and add the developer Q&A and I think it's pretty conclusive that Ner'zhul is just toast. There's maybe the slightest chance a thing could happen and he could return, as I said previously, but the odds are pretty low. His current status is tantamount to dead.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  6. #46
    Mechagnome Sagenod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    That's probably not anything to do with Ner'zhul, but more the fact the Helm is connected to the Maw (and likely the Jailer). Also, being connected to the hive-mind of the Scourge probably doesn't do one's sanity many favors to begin with.
    I get that Ner'zhul is blue post confirmed dead and all, I am now thinking there was a wasted opportunity with what they're doing now regarding the Lich King's association with the Jailer, having Ner'zhul's spirit in the Maw would be interesting. Bound to the same body, damned to the same hell, could Arthas and Ner'zhul have become friends?
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  7. #47
    When Arthas won in the dream, their souls merged together to form a single entity. When Frostmourne was destroyed Arthas regained his soul as he died. So Ner'zhuls soul went somewhere when they split. It either remained in the Helmet until Bolvar put it on, which means Ner'zhul might be in him. Or he was sent to the Maw. Or he had a back up plan for if he was ever released from the helmet and had his soul sent to another location.
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  8. #48
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    I still wouldn't mind they use Ner'zhul for some relevant Death/void plot point I mean.... least sorta give him one last hurrah. I feel more strongly on that then say Arthas but I'm rolling with the punches on that one.
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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    "Nothing remained [of Ner'zhul] but a wail of sorrow," is pretty much conclusive that all that was left of him was the memory, the echo we later see in Legion. Adding to that the developers' statement of purpose from the BlizzCon Q&A it becomes pretty clear that the intent is that Ner'zhul is functionally dead. Arthas tore him asunder, ripping away both his sanity and his essence, with only that vestige of an echo left.

    But this is also World of Warcraft so I think they *always* seek to leave a door open, if only the tiniest fraction so to speak, for practically any character to conceivably return.
    So, if Ner'zhul still exists as a voice, as a wail of sorrow, could we compare that perhaps to Uther and how he was split in two? Is it possible what with how Frostmourne rends, sunders, and damages souls like Arthas and Uther that Ner'zhul could be out there in the Shadowlands, removed of his sorrow and depression split into a version of himself without the memories and the sorrow of the echo that is left in Frostmourne?

  10. #50
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    So, if Ner'zhul still exists as a voice, as a wail of sorrow, could we compare that perhaps to Uther and how he was split in two? Is it possible what with how Frostmourne rends, sunders, and damages souls like Arthas and Uther that Ner'zhul could be out there in the Shadowlands, removed of his sorrow and depression split into a version of himself without the memories and the sorrow of the echo that is left in Frostmourne?
    It's possible, although based on the text and intent of the developers it seems more likely that Arthas consumed Ner'zhul's essence in a similar manner to how Warlocks consume souls - whatever remained of Ner'zhul being less than what would be needed to ever reconstitute the old Shaman.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  11. #51
    Elemental Lord Kyphael's Avatar
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    Hopefully we'll encounter AU Ner'zhul in Shadowlands because the writing team did him no justice in WoD.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Hopefully we'll encounter AU Ner'zhul in Shadowlands because the writing team did him no justice in WoD.
    Idk isn’t he basically killed at the entrance to the void I would assume he soul gets sucked into that.

  13. #53
    If he is to be found on the Shadowlands, he will probably be in the Maw as he is plain evil. Not like Sylv evil, but actually evil.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    Idk isn’t he basically killed at the entrance to the void I would assume he soul gets sucked into that.
    inb4 Ner'zhul is a Void Lord as the New New New New (New) Shadow Council?

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I still wouldn't mind they use Ner'zhul for some relevant Death/void plot point I mean.... least sorta give him one last hurrah. I feel more strongly on that then say Arthas but I'm rolling with the punches on that one.
    Considering Arthas got what was essentially a good and meaningful ending for his entire arc back in WotLk (at least for wow standards), and is now even back and all but set for redemption in SL, ill have to agree. Ner'zhul deserves at least something half relevant/important.
    But again, looking at Blizz's treatment of him from WotLk onward (including his AU counterpart in WoD) i'll sadly doubt it'll happen.

    Edit: damn, i even just remembered that he was literally the only warlord back in WoD who didnt get a comic or video for him. Literally the one and only who got nothing. And the only one who died in a dungeon and not in a raid. Blizz REALLY hates the poor fucker
    Last edited by Houle; 2020-09-08 at 02:37 AM.
    The crooked shitposter with no eyes is watching from the endless thread.

    From the space that is everywhere and nowhere, the crooked shitposter feasts on memes.

    He has no eyes to see, but he dreams of infinite memeing and trolling.

  16. #56
    Elemental Lord Kyphael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    Idk isn’t he basically killed at the entrance to the void I would assume he soul gets sucked into that.
    If that's the case, dude can't catch a break. Started off unwillingly serving The Legion, though he had good intentions, has his soul severed, twisted, tortured, placed into an armor and chucked to the northern part of Azeroth to continue doing the Legion's bidding. Gets erased by his cocky new vessel. His AU counterpart is 2-dimensionally evil, and gets sucked into The Void to undoubtedly become their puppet? Poor guy gets no afterlife or a shot at redemption when eviler men do.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    The odd part is that he is actually heard by the DK player during the Legion class campaign
    Just an echo. Nothing more. This is not the spirit, ghost or whatever.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Zmagoslav View Post
    The moment Arthas put that helm on his spirit fused with that of Ner'zhul; there was no 2 spirits, there was only one... and you've seen it dropped into the maw.
    Not quite. He does say "Now we are one", but the truth is more complicated.

    The book reveals that after he took the helm there were no fewer then 3 voices/spirits in his head. Corrupted Arthas, Ner'zhul and Matthias Lenner (what is left of good Arthas).
    In the timespan between WC3 and Wrath the Lich King is frozen on the throne (likely because Matthias is holding him back) and the 3 spirits interact, with Matthias trying to convince Arthas to return to his old self and Ner'zhul trying to make him kill Matthias so they can take full control.
    Arthas does "kill" Matthias which makes Ner'zhul happy... until he is killed too and Arthas (free from everything that made him good) becomes the Lich King.

    It is that moment where the Lich King awakens in Northrend.

    Though Matthias somehow survived so we can meet him in Icecrown and acording to Edge of Night, what is suffering in the Maw is actually Matthias, maybe because the Corrupted Arthas personality was destroyed with Frostmourne.
    The Uther Afterlife might be a retcon of this. That will remain to be seen.

  19. #59
    He sells shampoo now


  20. #60
    Mechagnome Sagenod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Die View Post
    He sells shampoo now

    Yeah I'd say Ner'zhul knows a thing or two about dandruff.
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