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  1. #81
    The more I think about it, the more I feel it's totally shit. Why would the Dreadlords serve death? What interest do they have in that?

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharendil View Post
    The more I think about it, the more I feel it's totally shit. Why would the Dreadlords serve death? What interest do they have in that?
    Who knows, it's all just some tips here that people try to make sense of.

    Other than that, it's Dreadlords. They are always on a winning side, for all we know they might ultimately just serve themselves and spread their chips all across the table betting on various "masters" winning the ultimate prize and letting them into the party.

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    That is even IF this whole fuss IS about Dreadlords, the evidence is circumstantial at best. Sure likelihood is high, but who knows. Maybe it's murlocs!

  3. #83
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tharendil View Post
    The more I think about it, the more I feel it's totally shit. Why would the Dreadlords serve death? What interest do they have in that?
    I don't think the Nathrezim actually serve Death, I think they only and have ever only served themselves. Pitting every major power in the metacosm against one another so that they can rule over whatever remains definitely sounds like a Dreadlord scheme.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Who knows, it's all just some tips here that people try to make sense of.

    Other than that, it's Dreadlords. They are always on a winning side, for all we know they might ultimately just serve themselves and spread their chips all across the table betting on various "masters" winning the ultimate prize and letting them into the party.

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    That is even IF this whole fuss IS about Dreadlords, the evidence is circumstantial at best. Sure likelihood is high, but who knows. Maybe it's murlocs!
    Indeed. They might be just as obsequious towards their Legion masters and write the same sort of report from another perspective, hell some of it might be total bullshit (an easy way for Blizzard to retcon stuff, as well!) Lothraxion is all about the Light being the coolest of the cool but perhaps it's an act, albeit I do hope in his case he at least became the mask a bit and doesn't transition from goody gooder to snidely whiplash abruptly.

    I do think it would be stupid if the Jailer was revealed as the big planning big bad behind literally everything, but I love the ideal of the Nathrezim being a self-serving cabal pitting the cosmic powers against each other. Or perhaps rather orienting the struggle in ways that benefit them, since said powers clashing seems completely inevitable.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

  5. #85
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Indeed. They might be just as obsequious towards their Legion masters and write the same sort of report from another perspective, hell some of it might be total bullshit (an easy way for Blizzard to retcon stuff, as well!) Lothraxion is all about the Light being the coolest of the cool but perhaps it's an act, albeit I do hope in his case he at least became the mask a bit and doesn't transition from goody gooder to snidely whiplash abruptly.

    I do think it would be stupid if the Jailer was revealed as the big planning big bad behind literally everything, but I love the ideal of the Nathrezim being a self-serving cabal pitting the cosmic powers against each other. Or perhaps rather orienting the struggle in ways that benefit them, since said powers clashing seems completely inevitable.
    Perhaps on a conscious level Lothraxion believes in the Light but sub consciously he's devious. Not that I wish that how the Light works but you get my point. I admit this is a development I did not see coming.
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  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Perhaps on a conscious level Lothraxion believes in the Light but sub consciously he's devious. Not that I wish that how the Light works but you get my point. I admit this is a development I did not see coming.
    It may also be possible that the plan was that he infiltrated the Army of the Light, but being Lightforged for so long means he forgot or ditched his original purpose, and the writer(s) of the missive just assumes that, of course he's one of ours because he's a Nathrezim. Or the rabbit hole goes deeper and the guy who writes this has no idea and cares not if Lothraxion is loyal, he just wants to please his theoretical boss while truly not being loyal to him which would be a very Dreadlord thing to do.

    All that said, it seems to me that at least some Nathrezim were Legion loyal to the end, such as Varimathras attempting to summon Sargeras during the battle for the Undercity. So I doubt Zovaal is their true master to which they are unflinchingly loyal to forever. He may just be a rising power they attach themselves to. Definitely food for thought and an interesting lore piece, with some actual follow-up one hopes.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

  7. #87
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Perhaps on a conscious level Lothraxion believes in the Light but sub consciously he's devious. Not that I wish that how the Light works but you get my point. I admit this is a development I did not see coming.
    I think it's possible that Lothraxion may be a sort of Manchurian candidate - he doesn't know he's compromised, and is only awaiting some ritual or action that will "activate" him and return him to the fold, so to speak.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  8. #88
    I think it's possible that blizz pulls an Iron Man 3 twist and the Jailer isn't the true Jailer... or at the very least not the true big bad. He's the guy at the forefront who we think is behind everything, but it could really be someone else.

  9. #89
    And it is actually the runecarver with removed memories of the plan, in torghast and more jailed than the jailer who might end up being his jailor. But that would mean the primus is nowhere to be found.

  10. #90
    Old God HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I just wonder for how long Blizz were planning all that.

    This quote at the very least puts Blizz plan at 5 years old considering first Ilgynoth encounter and reasonable development time.

    Sire Denathrius, his dreadlord-like form, accuser calling him Lord of Dread and so on. Lothraxion. Frostmourne link to Death realm and Nathrezim.

    This all is too juicy.

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    Chronicle 1 released in 2016 too, I guess it's safe to assume they started planning all this at the very least early/mid-WOD.

    I don't think they went with this as far as WoTLK, because then probably MoP and WoD would not happen, as they are of little relevance to this thing.

    And who knows what all they plan, maybe this "Master" is not Zovaal at all, who knows. Maybe there is something behind him, or behind Arbiter and all the so-called Death Pantheon for that matter.
    The Master is probably referring to Denathrius tbh. And the Jailer is the guy who ordered everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varolyn View Post
    I think it's possible that blizz pulls an Iron Man 3 twist and the Jailer isn't the true Jailer... or at the very least not the true big bad. He's the guy at the forefront who we think is behind everything, but it could really be someone else.
    Why would the Banished One not really be the Banished One? Come on now. lol

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post
    same.

    Jailer is basically like Kronika from Mortal Kombat and she is the worst villain ever written.

    oh and apparently Nathrezim went from being one of the few original demons spawned from the Twisting Nether to being Venthyr turned into demons or something who had plans since the beginning.

    congrats to Blizz once again.
    You got it wrong. Venthir didn't turn into the Nathrezim. Look at all of them. None of the Venthir look like a Dreadlord except for Denathrius. So most likely Denathrius was/or still is a Dreadlord and it's said he created the Venthir in his image. So it all makes sense since Dreadlords are known as vampiric demons.
    Last edited by Deathrange; 2020-09-06 at 01:58 AM.
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  12. #92
    Old God HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I don't think the Nathrezim actually serve Death, I think they only and have ever only served themselves. Pitting every major power in the metacosm against one another so that they can rule over whatever remains definitely sounds like a Dreadlord scheme.
    The Nathrezim, imo, were probably once some of Denathrius' top men, who he sent to serve the Jailer in their newly found pact. As a command, Zovaal sent them to each cosmic plane to provide deception among the ranks. They used the Fel to warp their bodies and to make the plane of Disorder a "threat" among the Cosmos so that their greatest champion, Sargeras, could be drawn out. They "pledged" themselves to the Void Lords, so they could bring their power out to Sargeras so he could fear their might. With that, the Legion was made, the Pantheon died, the Void Lords and the Light focused their aim to Azeroth, etc etc...

    All while Death, the "supposed" enemy of all, is ignored. Free to do whatever they want to. Also, Lothraxion COULD plotting, yes. However, he could also have been fully changed. That is debatable.

    Also, the Void seems to know about Death's plot. Hence why they nearly tried to Destroy the Shadowlands VIA invasions, hence why Ill'gynoth has these whispers of the Future, and hence why the Old Gods (Specifically N'Zoth) are so inclined to "save" us VIA corrupting Azeroth's Titan.

    Meanwhile, the Players are going to beat tf outta the Jailer, cause we're the Main Characters, and no amount of 4-D+ chess can stop us from loot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathrange View Post
    You got it wrong. Venthir didn't turn into to Nathrezim. Look at all of them. Non of the Venthir look like a dreadlord exept for Denathrius. So most likely Denathrius was/or still is the Dreadlord who created the Venthir.

    And it make sense since Dreadlord have been known to have Vampiric styling.
    They don't have to look Venthyr 100%. Reminder, the Man'ari don't fully look like their Eredar selves, but they still share the qualities of some. The Nathrezim were probably like Denathrius, AKA more developed Venthyr. Similar to how the Winter Queen is unique in her realm, or how the Archon is a cooler looking Kyrian, etc.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    The Nathrezim, imo, were probably once some of Denathrius' top men, who he sent to serve the Jailer in their newly found pact. As a command, Zovaal sent them to each cosmic plane to provide deception among the ranks. They used the Fel to warp their bodies and to make the plane of Disorder a "threat" among the Cosmos so that their greatest champion, Sargeras, could be drawn out. They "pledged" themselves to the Void Lords, so they could bring their power out to Sargeras so he could fear their might. With that, the Legion was made, the Pantheon died, the Void Lords and the Light focused their aim to Azeroth, etc etc...

    All while Death, the "supposed" enemy of all, is ignored. Free to do whatever they want to. Also, Lothraxion COULD plotting, yes. However, he could also have been fully changed. That is debatable.

    Also, the Void seems to know about Death's plot. Hence why they nearly tried to Destroy the Shadowlands VIA invasions, hence why Ill'gynoth has these whispers of the Future, and hence why the Old Gods (Specifically N'Zoth) are so inclined to "save" us VIA corrupting Azeroth's Titan.

    Meanwhile, the Players are going to beat tf outta the Jailer, cause we're the Main Characters, and no amount of 4-D+ chess can stop us from loot.

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    They don't have to look Venthyr 100%. Reminder, the Man'ari don't fully look like their Eredar selves, but they still share the qualities of some. The Nathrezim were probably like Denathrius, AKA more developed Venthyr. Similar to how the Winter Queen is unique in her realm, or how the Archon is a cooler looking Kyrian, etc.
    That would really make no sense tho since all the Dreadlord are well demons and Denathrius is the only one that looks like that in Revendreth and he is the one who created the Venthir. If the Dreadlords came from Venthir there would be more like them in Revendreth.
    Last edited by Deathrange; 2020-09-06 at 02:04 AM.
    Garrosh was right.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Spamming the word retcon doesn't make you correct.
    then please enlighten me where im wrong.
    just saying im wrong without arguments doesnt make me wrong.
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  15. #95
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathrange View Post
    That would really make no sense tho since all the Dreadlord are well demons and Denathrius is the only one that looks like that in Revendreth and he is the one who created the Venthir. If the Dreadlords came from Venthir there would be more like them in Revendreth.
    Only Dentharius created the Venthyr. Dread lords didn't come from the venethir, just Denathrius


    then please enlighten me where im wrong.
    just saying im wrong without arguments doesnt make me wrong.

    You're one throwing retcon around endlessly. You also say Chronicles is the lore bible but it doesn't explain everything, no idea what these void lords are, or what the forces of death means and so on.
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  16. #96
    Ysera can't be the operative who infiltrated Life, this book was written before Sargeras left the Pantheon, so it's before the Titans arrival to Azeroth. Ysera probably wasn't even hatched yet.

    It may be Eonar? She's female, so that part fits, and she seems to be aligned with Life.

  17. #97
    Old God HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathrange View Post
    That would really make no sense tho since all the Dreadlord are well demons and Denathrius is the only one that looks like that in Revendreth and he is the one who created the Venthir. If the Dreadlords came from Venthir there would be more like them in Revendreth.
    Maybe? But then you'd have to wonder how the Nathrezim know Zovaal, or at the very least serve "the Master", who is 100% Zovaal.

  18. #98
    Mechagnome Ilyiana's Avatar
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    holy fuck.

    this is insane.
    it's the dreadlords, we're screwed. this makes varimathras, lothraxion, tichondrius, all of them much scarier. this means that when kj had them make frostmourne and the helm, when varimathras tried to commune with sargy in undercity, and all of their other shenanigans...i am actively afraid lmao.

    if zovaal played this entire thing and engineered the majority of azerothian conflict in order to eventually unmake the cosmos...i'll bow down. this is crazy stuff. this would tie the burning crusade, the lich king (eventually netting him sylvanas), the emerald nightmare, and the LITERAL TITANS all back to zovaal. this is so much. please let it pay off, i'm genuinely excited.
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  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    You're one throwing retcon around endlessly. You also say Chronicles is the lore bible but it doesn't explain everything, no idea what these void lords are, or what the forces of death means and so on.

    Except that Warcraft has always been retcon central. Blizzard marketed Chronicle exactly as the lore bible. Stop denying reality.

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  20. #100
    Dreadlords, calling it. "Lord of dread" is what seals it for me, as far as I'm concerned that is not subtle.

    Secret agents of Death the whole time, even including the light guy? The Alliance may be in trouble. Remember the last time a dreadlord was able to take advantage of being trusted by a faction?
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

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