"The cunning ones kneel before six masters, but serve only one"

[Super Dickmann]

When Blizzard entirely ditch the decrepit cast and tell the story their current writers actually want to tell, which is the cosmic one, they abruptly can make it pretty interesting. Sure, it takes more stitching than is humanly possible to make it work with what we've seen before and would still tear at the seams, but by itself it's fun, which counts for a lot.

Also while I think the evidence for this isn't 100 set thus far and I don't know if I'd even like it, the idea that those Dreadlords that Sarg interrogated were working for the Jailor and were meant to push him off the edge so he could get the Titans off the board and then aim him at the Light and Void as well is a pretty good call given page 3. The comment about Life also reframes the whispers in 8.3 and the bit about cunning ones now doesn't mean themselves or opportunism, but a specific group tied with Death. I wouldn't be surprised if the writer was Denathrius from back when he was a Dreadlord.

I'll also put it out there now that the reason the Jailor was banished was for getting involved in the cosmic tug of war. You'll notice that even Maldraxxus is reactive - it fights against invasions and collects information to prepare for them, but it doesn't seize territory or go after souls it wouldn't normally have, and all the other 'main' covenants just manage their own affairs. The Kyrians are so appalled by the concept of doing literally anything outside of their insular scheme that it's why Devos turns on them. Whoever Zovaal was and whatever the Maw used to be, I expect him to have tried to expand the power of Death over the other powers and betrayed the other Shadowlands groups by robbing of them of their anima and doubling up on their functions (making his own army and his own psychopomps) to do it, resulting in his banishment. Hence him taking the slow, subversive route like this.

Edit: Writing like this to keep my thoughts as they were, but I think we might be jumping a bit in giving credit to the Jailor. The recipient is likely Denathrius himself and the writer one of his specifically sired creations, creations that I'd bet turn into dreadlords when exposed to fel. Denathrius is called 'The Master' after all, and he sounds a lot more like someone who'd care about flattery in address than the Jailor. Hell, it flat out says that the people the document writes about were 'sired' for this task. The quote also sounds like it's from Denathrius. Do you see the blue man talking about desires?

This'd also change that last part because then Revendreth would be involved in conspiracies outside of their domain.

[Paula Deen]

‘Six seats at the high table. Six mouths that hunger. One will consume all others.’

'The Light has struck a bargain with the enemy of all.'

Good lord, it all lines up. Did Blizzard actually plan this out? This Blizzard? The Blizzard that sometimes retcons an expansion before it's over?

Even the shittiest of Dungeon Masters for TTRPGs know you always have your story planned out to the end.

[username993720]

You got it wrong. Venthir didn't turn into the Nathrezim. Look at all of them. None of the Venthir look like a Dreadlord except for Denathrius. So most likely Denathrius was/or still is a Dreadlord and it's said he created the Venthir in his image. So it all makes sense since Dreadlords are known as vampiric demons.

That would really make no sense tho since all the Dreadlord are well demons and Denathrius is the only one that looks like that in Revendreth and he is the one who created the Venthir. If the Dreadlords came from Venthir there would be more like them in Revendreth.

Only Dentharius created the Venthyr. Dread lords didn't come from the venethir, just Denathrius

Exactly, the other people above people thinking that somehow Dreadlords are now retconned not to be demons and be Venthir instead from the beginning

i still don't get where all this nonsense about Venthyr turning into DL came

there never was any hint about it.

Denathrius is probably a Dreadlord. he created Venthyr from Souls and served as one of the pantheon of death.

venthyr into dreadlords? makes no sense.

This is where it comes from:

"Our operative has already gained the trust of her target.
And as previously discussed, our position within the plane of Disorder is proceeding flawlessly. Consuming fel energy is not a pleasant process, but a necessary one."

Meaning that this agent had to consume fel energies in order to infiltrate the plane of Disorder - which, most likely, turned him into a demon.

You, guys, talk about looks too much. We already know that Fel grants the user Horns, Scales, Bat Wings, Hooves, Fangs, Claws, Red or Green skin and Flames. This means that they could have drastically changed, look-wise, when consuming fel energies, but retained their vampiric characteristics.

Besides, what about the Stoneborn? These Gargoyles already have Bat Wings, Horns, Fangs and Claws, much like a Dreadlord.

Moreover, this was said about the Nathrezim, by an Observer, when examining the Codex of Xerrath, during the Green Fire questline in Mists of Pandaria: "Nathrezim, or the Dreadlords, as you call them, were once an enlightened and powerful race." This could very well mean that they were a different race once.

[DemonHunter18]

This is where it comes from:

"Our operative has already gained the trust of her target.
And as previously discussed, our position within the plane of Disorder is proceeding flawlessly. Consuming fel energy is not a pleasant process, but a necessary one."

no, it came from here

That lore bomb is huge.

-Narthrezim are an illuminati that serve the Jailer and/or Denathrius. They've meddled with, tricked, or are working with every single "kingdom" of magic.

-Nathrezim did not enjoy becoming Demons but they did it out of necessity. They played Sargeras.

-There are "keeper" entities above the Naaru for Light.

-Lothraxion is stated to be their double agent who converted to Light on purpose.

-The aspects of Life are said to be dangerous and the Nathrezim have a contact with a "her" there. Whatever the plane of Life is it's connected to Ardenweald.

he should have worded it way better.

Moreover, this was said about the Nathrezim, by an Observer, when examining the Codex of Xerrath, during the Green Fire questline in Mists of Pandaria: "Nathrezim, or the Dreadlords, as you call them, were once an enlightened and powerful race." This could very well mean that they were a different race once.

demons have their own sub races like Pit Lords, Nathrezim so you can call them their own race but they all originate from the Nether and were wreking havoc since the beginning of the Universe as per Chronicles.

[kranur]

I really hope Blizzard elaborates on this. It's refreshing to see the Dreadlords back to their rightful place of deceivers and master manipulators. Much more interesting than say "PAIN, AGONY RAWR" Deathwing, "U AINT PART OF MUH HURD" Garrosh, or "UR ALL NUTHIN' REEEEEEE" Sylvanas. I just hope they don't $!@# them up - not in the near future, at least.

Hopefully they do so within the expansion .. and not 10 years from now

[Dastreus]

yes please, get rid of Calia

Sorry dude, but "The Light has struck a bargain, with the enemy of all". Calia is not the agent, most likely.

[Varodoc]

I think the "Master" the agent nathrezim is referring to is Tichondrius. He is the lord and master of the nathrezim, and is currently MIA in the Nether after his defeat at the Nighthold.

In the end the nathrezim most likely don't even serve Death and Jailer, and are probably playing a long game. They will backstab him once all other cosmic forces are conquered and claim all power for themselves. They are so cunning, manipulative, and treacherous, that it would surprise me if they have a master who is not of their own.

The whisper that they kneel to Death is spoken by Il'gynoth, but in the end Il'gynoth is just a creature of N'Zoth, he doesn't have full knowledge of everything. Perhaps the real whisper should be "The cunning ones kneel before six masters, but serve no one."

[username993720]

no, it came from here


he should have worded it way better.



demons have their own sub races like Pit Lords, Nathrezim so you can call them their own race but they all originate from the Nether and were wreking havoc since the beginning of the Universe as per Chronicles.

The Chronicles are no longer the utmost canon sources, as they are said to be from the perspective of the Titans, which is biased and lacks a lot of information unknown to the Titans. That is why the Shadowlands are not covered in detail there.

You quoted it yourself:
"Nathrezim did not enjoy becoming Demons but they did it out of necessity."
Becoming Demons implies that they weren't Demons in the beginning.

[Tharendil]

I don't think the Nathrezim actually serve Death, I think they only and have ever only served themselves. Pitting every major power in the metacosm against one another so that they can rule over whatever remains definitely sounds like a Dreadlord scheme.

No, if the saying is true, then they do serve death. They're not trying to pit every power against one another. They're trying to eliminate all of the ones, except death, which is the power they serve.

[Gaidax]

Becoming Demons implies that they weren't Demons in the beginning.

Seems like they don't mind becoming whatever as long as it serves their goal, whatever it is.

- - - Updated - - -

No, if the saying is true, then they do serve death. They're not trying to pit every power against one another. They're trying to eliminate all of the ones, except death, which is the power they serve.

Or so they say... This report might be a ruse itself.

[blaatschaap]

It can't be because it mentions the Light "turned" one of their operatives but that is a lie, the only person that can be is Lothraxion who was "converted" by the Army of Light. That army didn't exist until after Sargeras.

Not sure if someone pointed this out already, but the text says this:

Similar to the titans, the naaru and their keepers are singular in purpose. Their adherence to a linear path is an obvious shortcoming.

They savor nothing more than being proved right, so if they believe they have converted one of us to their precious Light, they will trust that agent implicitly.

It simply outlines their plan for subverting the light, it doesn't state it has already been set into motion or has been accomplished. There is no timeline issue

[DemonHunter18]

The Chronicles are no longer the utmost canon sources, as they are said to be from the perspective of the Titans, which is biased and lacks a lot of information unknown to the Titans. That is why the Shadowlands are not covered in detail there.

That's why I'm making fun of Blizzards shitfest which is
laughable.

You quoted it yourself:
"Nathrezim did not enjoy becoming Demons but they did it out of necessity."
Becoming Demons implies that they weren't Demons in the beginning.

Reread pls.

I quoted a guy who said they became demons but like you said, this thing from beta doesn't confirm it 100%

He should have worded it better.

[Harbour]

By the way, the idea that Light struck the bargain with Death may potentially be used as tool to show that Arthas/Lich King wasnt irredeemable villain.
I think they gonna do the same thing they did with Illidan in Legion - show the different angle on what happened in WC3-WotLK.

In WC3-WotLK Arthas seemed to be villain and we, heroes, along with Silver Hand and Tirion Fordring, supposed to stop him and punish him. We thought we fought for Good.
And we defeated Arthas.

But this "struck the bargain with Death" line turns everything upside down, especially knowing that there is always must be a Lich King to keep the Scourge in check so it doesnt destroy the Azeroth.

It turns out that we, with the guidance of the Light, removed the one who defent Azeroth from Death. Silver Hand played major part in it and though Tirion and Co werent bad guy and cleraly wanted good, all they did was to help Death to cosume Azeroth.

In fact, if not Terenas, Tirion and Bolvar, there would have been no Lich King and Death would win. Would win with the help of the Light.

So, yes, it seems like the Light actually helped the Death to remove one obstacle from the chess desk. Sylvanas then, ally of Jailer, did the same with Bolvar.

And Arthas, in that angle, just like Illidan in TBC, may look like a hero who tried to stop Death from the destruction of the whole Azeroth.

I think Afterlifes Uther video has the purpose - to show how the Light misguide Uther and Arthas punishment wasnt deserved. Im pretty sure later in expansion we will dive deeper into Arthas and Uther matters.

[masterjc]

well, every race, that was touched by Fel, or BL, was mutated one way or another. mostly it was HOrns, Fangs, Wings or extra bones from spine
if we remove both Horns and Wings from Nathrezim, we might get some different race, mostly like to Zorvaal The Jailer


it doesnot make them former Venthyr at all

[deviantcultist]

I honestly doubt it. I find it highly unlikely will make a void expansion so soon after BfA. It's too soon. That's kind of like asking Legion to happen one expansion after TBC.

It could be a Light expansion with the Void being partially an ally.

[enigma77]

World of Warcraft: A Dreadlord did it.

[username993720]

well, every race, that was touched by Fel, or BL, was mutated one way or another. mostly it was HOrns, Fangs, Wings or extra bones from spine
if we remove both Horns and Wings from Nathrezim, we might get some different race, mostly like to Zorvaal The Jailer


it doesnot make them former Venthyr at all

But ,it's most likely, as they're both vampires.

[VinceVega]

Its quite clear Blizzard HAS a grand plan, if you can call it that. Its just that they manage to completely fuck up the details on the way there.

I don't even think they fuck it up.
But the way they reveal stuff is just... stupid? They wait for the whole fanbase to get crazy before saying: "nonono you just didn't know this and that yet! Look here, now it makes sense."
Which is fine sometimes. But not for a story layed out over YEARS with no resolution ore revelation to anything... just that it will make sense in the end.. like in 8 years 4 expansions later.

[UndedoKoleda]

World of Warcraft: A Dreadlord did it.

How times change. Just till recently it was World of Warcraft: The Old Gods did it!

[Aucald]

No, if the saying is true, then they do serve death. They're not trying to pit every power against one another. They're trying to eliminate all of the ones, except death, which is the power they serve.

I don't see anything in the report that really implies that they explicitly serve Death, unless you assume the "master" spoken of in the report is Sire Denathrius. I don't know if that is the case, though.