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  1. #1
    Herald of the Titans
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    Jailer is a Nathrezim? Zovaal.

    So, the new bits of lore heavily hints on Nathrezim being the part of Shadowland, serving the Death to destroy all other Cosmic Forces.

    This raises many questions, like, why?
    Why do they serve Death?
    Why do they serve Jailer?


    Well, maybe this theory may at least connect some dots.

    Jailer, Zovaal is or was a Nathrezim.

    Thats it. Why did i came to this?

    1) Well, first, its visual appearance.


    Nathrezim are the race originated on planet Nathreza, and we never saw this planet with our eyes and know nothing about how its inhabitants looked like before The Burning Legion, before Sargeras.

    It was common belief that Nathrezim's appearance: horns, wings, hooves - are their original physical attributes.


    But now i may doubt it. Thing is, Nathrezim were servants of the Burning Legion, and most servants of the Burning Legion, were physically changed after following Sargeras or being influenced with Fel Magic. Orcs, Eredar, Night Elves, even Titan himself - all them got certain atributes.
    Elves got hooves and became satyrs,
    orcs got spikes and change of skin color,
    Illidan got wings, hooves, horns,
    Eredar got horns and wings,
    Sargeras got hooves, horns and wings.
    You see the pattern.



    So, maybe Nazthrezim's horns, hooves and wings also were not their original attributes?

    2) Second, Zovaal actually looks pretty similar to Nathrezim, minus those attributes. He looks very vampiric-like, with fangs, pointy ears, bald scalp.

    3) Third, him being supreme Nathrezim would explain why Dreadlords serve him. He may be their god, for example, or their leader, similar to Kil'Jaeden or Sargeras for Eredar and Titans. Hence why he is so big. This also would explain him making up this grand master plan on how to destroy all other cosmic forces.

    By the way, take a look at how interestingly similar Jailer's armor look to Varimathras' torture shackles.

    This chackles were designed by Birning Legion, that also was based on design of the Titans.
    And i would dare to say, that Jailer's armor looks very similar to shackles of Varimathras.

    Now, take a look at this recent piece of lore (The Primus voiceover):

    Ages ago, the Eternal Ones punished our brother Zovaal for his treachery. He was bound within the inescapable Maw, to be forevermore its Jailer.
    So, Eternal Ones punished Zovaal for something and shackled him in that armor. There is obvious parallel between Legion shackling Varimathras and Eternal One shackling Zovaal. There are many theories about how Eternal Ones and Titans are somewhat connected or paralleled. And Legion's master is Former Titan. So there is certainly something fishy and related to each other.

    4) Minor point is the name. Blizzard are ususally pretty competent in how various races names are sound alike. You will easily differentiate the name of orc and elf, or elf and human, or dwarf and gnome.

    Zovaal fits the row of Nathrezim's names: Malganis, Balnazzar, Tichondrius, Varimathras, Xaraax, Gorgannon and others.

    Now, my assumption on what actually happened.

    Zovaal was some kind of Nathrezim patron, demigod or god of Nathreza, or one of Eternal Ones, who was born on Nathreza.
    Regular Nathrezim followed him and worship him.
    Then Zovaal did something bad and Eternal Ones punished him. They took off his soul - thats why he has that black hole in his chest, and imprisoned in the Maw, forging the chackles. Thats why he looks that way.

    Then, he somehow freed himself and started the grand plan on how to use the Death to destroy every other Cosmic Force.

    Another bit of lore from Primus about Jailer:

    Zovaal has forged his chains into a weapon... and brought about my defeat.
    Using the power of the Maw he sent Nathrezim everywhere, pushed Sargeras into madness, made a bargain with the Light, sending Lothraxion as part of the bargain to check out the Light armies, and basically was behind the most big events via Nathrezim agents.

    Thats pretty much it.
    Last edited by Harbour; 2020-09-06 at 05:28 AM.

  2. #2
    Dreadlord Kyux's Avatar
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    I'm not convinced he's a Nazthrezim or from Nathreza, but otherwise I'm totally on board and think you're right, more likely than not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Akhlys View Post
    Once upon a time, boats were full of leaks. Now, our leaks are full of boats.

  3. #3
    Quite the reach, especially just highlighting "nath."

    You may want to get your theory a sandwich and a milkshake because it's anorexic.

  4. #4
    Old God HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    I don't think he's a Nathrezim. He's probably just a Pantheon of Death member (Or something else, for that matter) who became a traitor to the Path. Therefore, he was Banished to, what is now known as, the Maw.

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    Quite the reach, especially just highlighting "nath."

    You may want to get your theory a sandwich and a milkshake because it's anorexic.
    So you discard the whole theory and explanation because of highlited "nath". It wasnt even the foundation of theory, more like some interesting detail that may or may not be relevant. I will remove it now btw.

  6. #6
    I think this theory has weight, but is hampered by Denathrius who is very very likely a dead Nathrezim pre-Fel. He even has the hooves and horns, but with no wings.

    Where are Zovaal's horns and hooves?

    I think it's much more likely that Zovaal is a Death God and the Nathrezim are just a race of aliens who work with him, for whatever reason.

    It's also been mentioned that Zovaal may be the dead world soul of Nathreza (why he would have a different name is up in the air but probably just to spoil that he is Nathreza).
    Last edited by Nagawithlegs; 2020-09-06 at 05:41 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    Quite the reach, especially just highlighting "nath."

    You may want to get your theory a sandwich and a milkshake because it's anorexic.
    Ever since we started hearing about the Venthyr people have been theorizing that they have the same origin as the Nathrezim for several obvious reasons. Its quite a well substantiated theory. Zovaal being one of them isnt as much of a reach as you want it to be.

    There are reaches is in this theory but you obviously put some work into it. Its a pretty well thought out one.

    i'd give it a 25% chance or so

  8. #8
    Fluffy Kitten Malefic's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure that Jailer being Zovaal was already datamined/theorized?

    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...al_the_jailer/

    This link links to The Jailer, https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/npc=...aal-the-jailer although 'Zovaal' has now been removed from the URL.


    Also references to 'Zovaal, the Jailer' here. https://beta.wowdb.com/spells/326596...fff2020-1000-r


    Unless I'm misunderstanding and your theory is about him being a Naztherim, in which case no idea.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harbour View Post
    So, the new bits of lore heavily hints on Nathrezim being the part of Shadowland, serving the Death to destroy all other Cosmic Forces.

    This raises many questions, like, why?
    Why do they serve Death?
    Why do they serve Jailer?


    Well, maybe this theory may at least connect some dots.

    Jailer, Zovaal is or was a Nathrezim.

    Thats it. Why did i came to this?

    1) Well, first, its visual appearance.


    Nathrezim are the race originated on planet Nathreza, and we never saw this planet with our eyes and know nothing about how its inhabitants looked like before The Burning Legion, before Sargeras.

    It was common belief that Nathrezim's appearance: horns, wings, hooves - are their original physical attributes.


    But now i may doubt it. Thing is, Nathrezim were servants of the Burning Legion, and most servants of the Burning Legion, were physically changed after following Sargeras or being influenced with Fel Magic. Orcs, Eredar, Night Elves, even Titan himself - all them got certain atributes.
    Elves got hooves and became satyrs,
    orcs got spikes and change of skin color,
    Illidan got wings, hooves, horns,
    Eredar got horns and wings,
    Sargeras got hooves, horns and wings.
    You see the pattern.



    So, maybe Nazthrezim's horns, hooves and wings also were not their original attributes?

    2) Second, Zovaal actually looks pretty similar to Nathrezim, minus those attributes. He looks very vampiric-like, with fangs, pointy ears, bald scalp.

    3) Third, him being supreme Nathrezim would explain why Dreadlords serve him. He may be their god, for example, or their leader, similar to Kil'Jaeden or Sargeras for Eredar and Titans. Hence why he is so big. This also would explain him making up this grand master plan on how to destroy all other cosmic forces.

    By the way, take a look at how interestingly similar Jailer's armor look to Varimathras' torture shackles.

    This chackles were designed by Birning Legion, that also was based on design of the Titans.
    And i would dare to say, that Jailer's armor looks very similar to shackles of Varimathras.

    Now, take a look at this recent piece of lore (The Primus voiceover):



    So, Eternal Ones punished Zovaal for something and shackled him in that armor. There is obvious parallel between Legion shackling Varimathras and Eternal One shackling Zovaal. There are many theories about how Eternal Ones and Titans are somewhat connected or paralleled. And Legion's master is Former Titan. So there is certainly something fishy and related to each other.

    4) Minor point is the name. Blizzard are ususally pretty competent in how various races names are sound alike. You will easily differentiate the name of orc and elf, or elf and human, or dwarf and gnome.

    Zovaal fits the row of Nathrezim's names: Malganis, Balnazzar, Tichondrius, Varimathras, Xaraax, Gorgannon and others.

    Now, my assumption on what actually happened.

    Zovaal was some kind of Nathrezim patron, demigod or god of Nathreza, or one of Eternal Ones, who was born on Nathreza.
    Regular Nathrezim followed him and worship him.
    Then Zovaal did something bad and Eternal Ones punished him. They took off his soul - thats why he has that black hole in his chest, and imprisoned in the Maw, forging the chackles. Thats why he looks that way.

    Then, he somehow freed himself and started the grand plan on how to use the Death to destroy every other Cosmic Force.

    Another bit of lore from Primus about Jailer:


    Using the power of the Maw he sent Nathrezim everywhere, pushed Sargeras into madness, made a bargain with the Light, sending Lothraxion as part of the bargain to check out the Light armies, and basically was behind the most big events via Nathrezim agents.

    Thats pretty much it.
    Its interesting but I don't think its likely. The nathreziem might have a connection but they are also void aligned as the ones Sargeras came across where void worshipers

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    I think this theory has weight, but is hampered by Denathrius who is very very likely a dead Nathrezim pre-Fel. He even has the hooves and horns, but with no wings.

    Where are Zovaal's horns and hooves?

    I think it's much more likely that Zovaal is a Death God and the Nathrezim are just a race of aliens who work with him, for whatever reason.

    It's also been mentioned that Zovaal may be the dead world soul of Nathreza (why he would have a different name is up in the air but probably just to spoil that he is Nathreza).
    That would be amazing
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer DesoPL's Avatar
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    I start to think, that Dreadlords were created by Denathrius, and play big role in Jailers plans. It's actually makes sense, because likely not every dreadlord were fanatical loyal to Burning Legion.

    And as previously discussed, our position within the plane of Disorder is proceeding flawlessly. Consuming fel energy is not a pleasant process, but a necessary one.

    The deception you have architected will bear fruit in the ages to come.
    But this whole theory conflicts with thing, where on one planet, Sargeras discovered dreadlords worshiping old gods. Unless...

    The void lords all but welcome us with open arms. They are so preoccupied with their thousand truths that they ignore the lies we sow in their very midst.

    I believe we can leverage their vast reach to position them as a foil against our other rivals.

    We remain wary, though. Since they are observant of multiple outcomes, it is conceivable they could anticipate our coming.
    I wouldn't be suprised, if somehow in Castle Nathria Mal'Ganis may appear.
    If you are Activision fan boy. Please don't talk to me.

    I don't give a fuck, about your opinion.

  11. #11
    Imo I think it’s very likely the dread lords were created by the jailer and Denathrius.

    As a massive spy network on a multi realm level.

    This means the Dread lords would also be able to infiltrate the void and resistant to it since they are death entities.

  12. #12
    Mechagnome Mars_Trueskills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesoPL View Post
    I start to think, that Dreadlords were created by Denathrius, and play big role in Jailers plans. It's actually makes sense, because likely not every dreadlord were fanatical loyal to Burning Legion.
    "This is, after all, the solemn duty for which you sired us. As you are fond of saying: Once a desire is understood, it can be exploited."
    Definitely sounds like it's Denathrius.. The whole "sired" part, is used a lot in different vampire flicks, when a vampire is created by another vampire.

  13. #13
    I thought the title was Jaina is a Nathrezim for a sec there. I was like oh boy are we back on this again.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Malefic View Post
    I'm pretty sure that Jailer being Zovaal was already datamined/theorized?

    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...al_the_jailer/

    This link links to The Jailer, https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/npc=...aal-the-jailer although 'Zovaal' has now been removed from the URL.


    Also references to 'Zovaal, the Jailer' here. https://beta.wowdb.com/spells/326596...fff2020-1000-r


    Unless I'm misunderstanding and your theory is about him being a Naztherim, in which case no idea.
    Zovaal is the Jailer. Same person. It's made very clear in the SL intro quest line.

    Also, he is one of the Eternal Ones, same as the Arbiter and the covenant leaders such as Winter Queen. However Eternal Ones are not the First Ones. Different entities.

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer DesoPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mars_Trueskills View Post
    "This is, after all, the solemn duty for which you sired us. As you are fond of saying: Once a desire is understood, it can be exploited."
    Definitely sounds like it's Denathrius.. The whole "sired" part, is used a lot in different vampire flicks, when a vampire is created by another vampire.
    I wouldn't be suprised, if on Castle Nathria will be mythic only stage, Mal'Ganis may appear. But yet i keep in mind, Blizz story writters may troll us.
    If you are Activision fan boy. Please don't talk to me.

    I don't give a fuck, about your opinion.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by DesoPL View Post
    I wouldn't be suprised, if on Castle Nathria will be mythic only stage, Mal'Ganis may appear. But yet i keep in mind, Blizz story writters may troll us.
    So you are saying if your idea doesnt happen blizzard is trolling "us" ?

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer DesoPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    So you are saying if your idea doesnt happen blizzard is trolling "us" ?
    Nah rather they give some tips like that, and yet something else happends.
    If you are Activision fan boy. Please don't talk to me.

    I don't give a fuck, about your opinion.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Harbour View Post
    Zovaal fits the row of Nathrezim's names: Malganis, Balnazzar, Tichondrius, Varimathras, Xaraax, Gorgannon and others.
    How does that fit? sounds more like a skyrim dragon.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Harbour View Post
    So, the new bits of lore heavily hints on Nathrezim being the part of Shadowland, serving the Death to destroy all other Cosmic Forces.

    This raises many questions, like, why?
    Why do they serve Death?
    Why do they serve Jailer?


    Well, maybe this theory may at least connect some dots.

    Jailer, Zovaal is or was a Nathrezim.

    Thats it. Why did i came to this?

    1) Well, first, its visual appearance.


    Nathrezim are the race originated on planet Nathreza, and we never saw this planet with our eyes and know nothing about how its inhabitants looked like before The Burning Legion, before Sargeras.

    It was common belief that Nathrezim's appearance: horns, wings, hooves - are their original physical attributes.


    But now i may doubt it. Thing is, Nathrezim were servants of the Burning Legion, and most servants of the Burning Legion, were physically changed after following Sargeras or being influenced with Fel Magic. Orcs, Eredar, Night Elves, even Titan himself - all them got certain atributes.
    Elves got hooves and became satyrs,
    orcs got spikes and change of skin color,
    Illidan got wings, hooves, horns,
    Eredar got horns and wings,
    Sargeras got hooves, horns and wings.
    You see the pattern.



    So, maybe Nazthrezim's horns, hooves and wings also were not their original attributes?

    2) Second, Zovaal actually looks pretty similar to Nathrezim, minus those attributes. He looks very vampiric-like, with fangs, pointy ears, bald scalp.

    3) Third, him being supreme Nathrezim would explain why Dreadlords serve him. He may be their god, for example, or their leader, similar to Kil'Jaeden or Sargeras for Eredar and Titans. Hence why he is so big. This also would explain him making up this grand master plan on how to destroy all other cosmic forces.

    By the way, take a look at how interestingly similar Jailer's armor look to Varimathras' torture shackles.

    This chackles were designed by Birning Legion, that also was based on design of the Titans.
    And i would dare to say, that Jailer's armor looks very similar to shackles of Varimathras.

    Now, take a look at this recent piece of lore (The Primus voiceover):



    So, Eternal Ones punished Zovaal for something and shackled him in that armor. There is obvious parallel between Legion shackling Varimathras and Eternal One shackling Zovaal. There are many theories about how Eternal Ones and Titans are somewhat connected or paralleled. And Legion's master is Former Titan. So there is certainly something fishy and related to each other.

    4) Minor point is the name. Blizzard are ususally pretty competent in how various races names are sound alike. You will easily differentiate the name of orc and elf, or elf and human, or dwarf and gnome.

    Zovaal fits the row of Nathrezim's names: Malganis, Balnazzar, Tichondrius, Varimathras, Xaraax, Gorgannon and others.

    Now, my assumption on what actually happened.

    Zovaal was some kind of Nathrezim patron, demigod or god of Nathreza, or one of Eternal Ones, who was born on Nathreza.
    Regular Nathrezim followed him and worship him.
    Then Zovaal did something bad and Eternal Ones punished him. They took off his soul - thats why he has that black hole in his chest, and imprisoned in the Maw, forging the chackles. Thats why he looks that way.

    Then, he somehow freed himself and started the grand plan on how to use the Death to destroy every other Cosmic Force.

    Another bit of lore from Primus about Jailer:


    Using the power of the Maw he sent Nathrezim everywhere, pushed Sargeras into madness, made a bargain with the Light, sending Lothraxion as part of the bargain to check out the Light armies, and basically was behind the most big events via Nathrezim agents.

    Thats pretty much it.
    nathrezim were demons originally before the legion as chronicles stated so saying using we never saw them before legion doesn't really work as we know sargeras hunted and imprisoned nathrezims in his pantheon days and you have no real indication that dreadlords changed under sargeras.... and them being demons from the start when they die they wouldn't go into the shadowlands and having primus call zovaal his brother would make no sense if your theory is correct and lastly your theory conflicts so much with chronicles here as chronicles stated nathrezim spawned from twisting nether and we don't see them use death magic that much they use more void and fel which too would make no sense.

  20. #20
    i thought "Zorvaal the Jailer" and "The Jailer" are two different entities?

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