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  1. #1

    The abilities you see are NOT the abilities you get

    When you level in Systemlands (COPYRIGHTED) you have use of all abilities. Recently, Blizz added the function to borrow abilities upon reaching max level before you make your choice to test them out. That's a great move.

    However, the bigger problen, which is Soulbinds and Conduits, augment your covenant ability and class ability.

    For example, the Venthyr Mage ability looks not so great compared to the other covenants in PvE.

    Conjure 3 mirrors to torment the enemy for 20 sec. Whenever the target casts a spell or ability, a mirror is consumed to inflict (75% of Spell power) Shadow damage and their movement and cast speed are slowed by 15%.

    The final mirror will instead inflict (198% of Spell power) Shadow damage to the enemy, Rooting and Silencing them for 4 sec


    But there is a conduit, obviously with a rank system (as if the systems aren't convoluted enough), that gives you a 90% dmg buff for 10 seconds. The augmented ability is called Siphoned Mallice.

    Siphoned Malice
    Instant
    Requires MageEach time a Mirror of Torment is consumed your Spell Damage is increased by 10% for 10 seconds, stacking 3 times.


    Rank 1= 10%
    Rank 8= 20%
    Rank 15= 30%

    No other conduit or soulbind comes close to that no matter the rank. PvPers will all go Venthyr because why would you not want a 90% damage buff? And this works in some PvE situations too!

    Still think there will be balance?

    This is not an alone case. Thoughts? Have you found absurd ones?
    Night Elves NEED long hair to the ground and more elegant/regal beautiful options to show their Highbourne heritage

  2. #2
    It remains to be seen if that conduit will make it to live.. but it already has been identified as utterly broken (in some scenarios) should it make it to live. It comes with the caveat though that you need an enemy that triggers 3 charges quickly (afaik each stack doesn't refresh the duration of the previous), which is still extremely niche.

    Edit: It's also dispellable, so it will only work against retarded PvPers.
    Last edited by Haidaes; 2020-09-06 at 07:57 AM.
    /tar Tinker-zealot /point /lol
    WoW:Shadowlands - Danuser's Divina Commedia?

  3. #3
    But I was told covenants would only mean a 0.5% difference!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharnie786 View Post
    When you level in Systemlands (COPYRIGHTED) you have use of all abilities. Recently, Blizz added the function to borrow abilities upon reaching max level before you make your choice to test them out. That's a great move.

    However, the bigger problen, which is Soulbinds and Conduits, augment your covenant ability and class ability.

    For example, the Venthyr Mage ability looks not so great compared to the other covenants in PvE.

    Conjure 3 mirrors to torment the enemy for 20 sec. Whenever the target casts a spell or ability, a mirror is consumed to inflict (75% of Spell power) Shadow damage and their movement and cast speed are slowed by 15%.

    The final mirror will instead inflict (198% of Spell power) Shadow damage to the enemy, Rooting and Silencing them for 4 sec


    But there is a conduit, obviously with a rank system (as if the systems aren't convoluted enough), that gives you a 90% dmg buff for 10 seconds. The augmented ability is called Siphoned Mallice.

    Siphoned Malice
    Instant
    Requires MageEach time a Mirror of Torment is consumed your Spell Damage is increased by 10% for 10 seconds, stacking 3 times.


    Rank 1= 10%
    Rank 8= 20%
    Rank 15= 30%

    No other conduit or soulbind comes close to that no matter the rank. PvPers will all go Venthyr because why would you not want a 90% damage buff? And this works in some PvE situations too!

    Still think there will be balance?

    This is not an alone case. Thoughts? Have you found absurd ones?
    until blizzard actually comments on conduit ranks, they may as well not exist. there is nothing in the beta to signify the higher ranks except datamined levels.

    ill complain about it when they actually confirm theyu will exist.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zogarth View Post
    But I was told covenants would only mean a 0.5% difference!
    not by blizzard you werent nice use of sarcasm though (that was also sarcasm)

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    until blizzard actually comments on conduit ranks, they may as well not exist. there is nothing in the beta to signify the higher ranks except datamined levels.

    ill complain about it when they actually confirm theyu will exist.)
    So you'll complain once there's a blue post or in-game ranks rather than the coding being implemented with every build? You do you
    Night Elves NEED long hair to the ground and more elegant/regal beautiful options to show their Highbourne heritage

  6. #6
    It's just abundantly clear in every thread that people who insist "this only matters to the 1%" either have no idea what they are talking about or have an enormous amount of blind faith in Blizzard to actually fix all these things in a very short period of time. Conduits and soulbinds are HUGE and players aren't even going to get to test them while leveling up. Seems bad!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyris Flare View Post
    or have an enormous amount of blind faith in Blizzard to actually fix all these things in a very short period of time.
    They don't.
    They just believe the game will get better if the those "1%" will fuck off and covenants seems to be that feature will drive those people away.

    Which won't happen because the same people will still be making the game, but that's another story.

  8. #8
    Except the 1% wont leave because of this. They will adapt to BIS like they always do. I recon a lot of high end pvp/m+/raiders will just have 4 of their main class, 1 for each covenant for whenever blizzard decides that a ability needs a nerf.

    And the ranks are needed. Else everyone will have their BIS conduits after a couple weeks, and the system would be dead for the rest of the expansion. Blizzard wont allow that so ranks are a good way to keep people collecting them.

  9. #9
    So kind of how talents can alter your existing abilities as you level up and get access to new talent rows? Somehow players have managed for over a decade without throwing tantrums.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharnie786 View Post
    Still think there will be balance?
    Over 15 years of playing WoW I have yet to see this fabled "balance". Blizz pretty much told you on stream - there won't be balance and at best they hope to narrow the delta.

    Know what I think? Once people are done bullshitting and spreading ash over their heads and expansion launched - anyone who cares about performance will do exactly same thing we did all these years and go read guildes, discord pins and run simulations to figure out what's the best - then they will take it.

    If you care so much about balance, you will know exactly what boxes to tick in the new UI elements in Shadowlands to get the most juice for your needs.

    End of the story.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mnesymne View Post
    Except the 1% wont leave because of this.
    Pretty much.

    We had much more annoying stuff in past, like RNG Legiondaries with your obvious BIS hidden amongst 5-6 pieces of shit. Or, heck, TBC with some busted items taking a year to drop.

    Somehow it did not make top 1% cry and leave (ok it did make them cry, I concede on that one) - people adapt and Shadowlands is pretty tame compared to what we had on hardcore front in past - for one all choices in Shadowlands are reversible and everything you get is deterministic - you decide which legendary you get, you decide which covenant you go for and if something happens you can always switch.

    If Warglaives of Azzinoth and Legiondaries did not make 1% quit, then this for sure won't because there is a lot of cuddling added in this system compared to the past ones.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2020-09-07 at 07:41 AM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharnie786 View Post
    So you'll complain once there's a blue post or in-game ranks rather than the coding being implemented with every build? You do you
    yes, that's the logical thing to do. Even if ranks will make it into the game, it's not clear what the cap is going to be when the game is live. Just because there are 15 ranks doesn't mean we'll reach rank 15 at release. Datamining often includes long term plans. Maybe they plan to go to rank 5 in 9.0 and are already looking at how conduits would scale in later patches with higher ranks, so that they find problematic ones early on.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    They don't.
    They just believe the game will get better if the those "1%" will fuck off and covenants seems to be that feature will drive those people away.

    Which won't happen because the same people will still be making the game, but that's another story.
    No, they've come to realise that it doesn't really matter to those 1% what they do, so they're better off not designing around them.

  13. #13
    This abilty in particular... It would be awesome to know which spells are able to proc it and which ones doesn't.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharnie786 View Post
    No other conduit or soulbind comes close to that no matter the rank. PvPers will all go Venthyr because why would you not want a 90% damage buff? And this works in some PvE situations too!

    Still think there will be balance?

    This is not an alone case. Thoughts? Have you found absurd ones?
    Mirrors of torment stays one of the worst abilities with no real use outside of meme situations. It's one of the few abilities im suprised wasn't changed yet.
    It can be dispelled which makes it useless for pvp and no group in the world would let a mob(or even a boss) cast three spells in quick succession for a 10 second damage buff.

    Obviously in the end all the covenant abilities for each class will be similar in terms of output. Im pretty sure we will see tuning similar to azerite at the start of the expansion until numbers are fine and players are mad about their now bad choices.
    There will never be real balance and we all know that. anyone who thinks any different is a fool.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Foolicious View Post
    Mirrors of torment stays one of the worst abilities with no real use outside of meme situations. It's one of the few abilities im suprised wasn't changed yet.
    It can be dispelled which makes it useless for pvp and no group in the world would let a mob(or even a boss) cast three spells in quick succession for a 10 second damage buff.

    Obviously in the end all the covenant abilities for each class will be similar in terms of output. Im pretty sure we will see tuning similar to azerite at the start of the expansion until numbers are fine and players are mad about their now bad choices.
    There will never be real balance and we all know that. anyone who thinks any different is a fool.
    It procs off of all kinds of hidden abilities that don't seem like "casts," apparently including some random procs. People on beta have been able to get 3 stacks reliably on all kinds of content where you wouldn't expect it.

    The thing is actually insanely broken unless they change it. And the worst part is what you said, people won't intuitively know that it is even good because it seems useless.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Foolicious View Post
    It can be dispelled which makes it useless for pvp and no group in the world would let a mob(or even a boss) cast three spells in quick succession for a 10 second damage buff.
    It's not just spells, but also abilities. Plenty of mobs have abilities you can't prevent. People vastly underestimate how common those are.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Know what I think? Once people are done bullshitting and spreading ash over their heads and expansion launched - anyone who cares about performance will do exactly same thing we did all these years and go read guildes, discord pins and run simulations to figure out what's the best - then they will take it.
    Yes, but if you're a DK and the best option ends up being to join a group up fairies then that will suck. There is no good reason for Blizzard to locking some abilities to a group of fairies.

  18. #18
    It's gonna be a crapshoot, yeah, and that's BEFORE they start nerfing the good ones without any notice.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Yes, but if you're a DK and the best option ends up being to join a group up fairies then that will suck. There is no good reason for Blizzard to locking some abilities to a group of fairies.
    A. If you like performance you will do whatever is necessary, plain and simple.
    B. You don't even know what actually be best covenant option for DK once they are done tuning, NF for them right now is an outlier, a sticking nail that might get hammered in.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharnie786 View Post
    Still think there will be balance?
    Yes... as much balance as is possible without everyone playing the same class and spec.

    My Kyrian mage can splat a target in 15 seconds, with the covenant ability + three instant nukes - and that is with rank 1 conduits.

    There are ONLY three possible reasons to vote for Donald J Trump this November.
    You are ignorant, you are irrational or you are incredibly wealthy.
    Be rational, be informed.

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