outlaw is just terrible

[ro9ue]

I can't believe they got rid of the ranged stun, was one of the most unique aspects of the spec...

[Saltysquidoon]

There's just so many abilities now, I just don't know where I'm going to keybind them.

Roll The Bones and Slice & Dice was always an either/or. Now I have to maintain both?

Between The Eyes AND Kidney Shot?

Shiv was always optional. Now it's default along with Dreadblades. Two more I need to keybind.

An n52 AND a multi-button mouse, and still not enough room.

Underbasted Roast

[Gurg]

There's just so many abilities now, I just don't know where I'm going to keybind them.

Roll The Bones and Slice & Dice was always an either/or. Now I have to maintain both?

Between The Eyes AND Kidney Shot?

Shiv was always optional. Now it's default along with Dreadblades. Two more I need to keybind.

An n52 AND a multi-button mouse, and still not enough room.

I agree that this expansion brings around more buttons than we are used to, more for some classes than others.
I also find it odd that they are trying to combine several different playstyles for some classes into one, core, with these changes.

Holinka, the unpruner and the one who almost killed PvP back in the days strikes again.

Tho its not the point, nor game is intended to be played optimally this way, i pretty much macro similar abilities and clear my bars as much as i can.
Note that I dont encourage in macroing if you are not used to since it can hit your performance and below macros are just examples and something that i use and have been used for past several expansions so i have muscle memory used to these.


Something like this:

#showtooltip
/castsequence [mod]Evasion;[nomod, combat] Vanish;
/cast !Stealth

This Macro will cast stealth if its not active, Evasion while pressing shift/ctrl or Vanish if in combat.

#showtooltip
/cast [indoors][combat][mod:shift] Sprint;[swimming,nomod] Azure Water Strider; [flyable][mod:ctrl] Red Flying Cloud; Azure Water Strider
/dismount [mounted]

General mount macro that i use across all my characters. It will cast Sprint if in combat or shift/ctrl are pressed, Water Strider if in water, Flying Cloud if flying is available or Water strider as ground mount. It will also dismount if mounted.
OFC abilities and mounts are customizable, this is just my preference.

#showtooltip
/castsequence [spec:1,nostance,nomod]Mutilate; [spec:1]Garrote;
/castsequence [spec:2,mod]Pistol Shot;[spec:2]Sinister Strike;
/castsequence [spec:3,mod]Shuriken Storm;[spec:3,nostance]Backstab;[spec:3]Shadowstrike;

Button1 - generators - macro for all 3 specs.
Assasination - Mutilate or Garrote if shift/ctrl are pressed.
Combat - Sinister Strike or Pistol Shot if shift/ctrl are pressed.
Sub - Backstab/Gloomblade, Shadowstrike if Shadow Dance is active or in stealth and Shuriken Storm if shift/ctrl are pressed.

#showtooltip
/castsequence [spec:1,nomod] Envenom; [spec:1,mod:shift]Rupture;
/castsequence [spec:2,nomod] Dispatch; [spec:2,mod:shift]Between the Eyes;
/castsequence [spec:3,nomod] Eviscerate; [spec:3,mod:shift]Rupture;

Button2 - Finishers - macro for all 3 specs.
Assasination - Envenom or Rupture if shift is pressed.
Combat - Dispatch or Between the Eyes if shift is pressed.
Sub - Eviscerate or Rupture if shift is pressed.

#showtooltip
/castsequence [nomod] reset=20, Blade Flurry, Roll the Bones; [mod:shift] Blade Flurry; [mod:ctrl] Roll the Bones

Not the most elegant solution but it works. This macro is casting Blade Flurry and Roll the Bones one after another.
Modifiers Shift and Ctrl are there as failsafe.
With incoming Legendaries and Conduits you will have to keep Blade Flurry constantly up, Roll the Bones with its longer cooldown aligns quite nicely in this macro. Reset time can be tweaked per character, for my character somewhere between 15-20s feels like a good spot.

[bloodmoth13]

Just had a test run on outlaw and it feels clunky right now, but i think its just growing pains atm.

This spec has so many parts to track: Roll the bones (how many buffs, what buffs, its changing cooldown), slice and dice, combo points, energy, between the eyes and blade flurry.

Roll the bones has 5 buffs to count for and you need to know what ones (they change how you play) how many (changes decision on when to reroll) and its cooldown.
slice and dice requires tracking energy, combo points and remaining duration.
The rest is standard builder spender gameplay. I think the main gameplay is managing those buffs, which if you are not interested in managing buffs its going to be a chore.

also worth noting its important to track between the eyes since the CD is erratic with interaction with restless blades.

I think weakauras are mandatory for this spec to play well.

Basically, track changing CDs, Track buffs. If you can manage that well then you should be okay.

[Powerogue]

It's definitely overkill, but I got curse of the dreadblades back, and, rather than going "goddamn it where are all my abilities I feel like a hollow shell of my legion self" it's "I literally can't find a place to put shiv. Hell no I'm not moving my romantic picnic toy off my hotbar, I might need that. "

Part of me wants between the eyes back as the ranged stun but also what I asked for was being able to do burst single target damage again and +20% crit including on the many many monsters immune to stun sure is tasty.

I compare WW monk to dance dance revolution, and I'm going to compare this new outlaw spec to juggling. Mainly Bones, SND, and between the eyes.

[Gurg]

I think weakauras are mandatory for this spec to play well.

Basically, track changing CDs, Track buffs. If you can manage that well then you should be okay.

Agree. Macroed or not, it feels like its mandatory to have WA that track at least Bones rolls. If not SnD uptime too.
it also feels a bit of hectic in larger pulls, i usually forget to refresh SnD. But again, i note that one to changed gameplay so my muscle memory needs to adapt too.
I also agree that Outlaw feels a bit like a overkill, comparing it with other two specs as well as, lets say WW monk, Feral or Survival.

[bloodmoth13]

Agree. Macroed or not, it feels like its mandatory to have WA that track at least Bones rolls. If not SnD uptime too.
it also feels a bit of hectic in larger pulls, i usually forget to refresh SnD. But again, i note that one to changed gameplay so my muscle memory needs to adapt too.
I also agree that Outlaw feels a bit like a overkill, comparing it with other two specs as well as, lets say WW monk, Feral or Survival.

I guess every spec has something that they need to focus on, whether procs, short/long cds, buffs or whatever, happens that outlaw is buffs.

I dont think its bad but WoW's default interface is utterly useless to convey the information required. buff tracking is abominable, procs arent great either.

[Alexplode]

i am not a master mind in matters of explanation, but what they did to outlaw feels wrong. my complete flow i had with outlaw is completely destroyed. constantly confusing roll the bones with slice and dice, keep using between the eyes as stun instead of kidney shot, not paying attention to when roll the bones is ready or depleted and sometimes I totally forget about pressing it as a cooldown because I'm not used to it.

you cannot tell me that this is the version we get on live servers. my whole muscle memory is lost. I had to rebind all my keys because it's a complete clusterfuck for me. call me autistic, but I can't deal with that change. no way.

anyone else feels like that or am I alone?

totally sounds like a you problem. For me playing my combat/outlaw rogue since MOP-Legion feels fluid and better.

There's so much stuff you have to keep up and pay attention to, that the actual gameplay experience with outlaw comes to a standstill.

Have you played subtlety? or are you new to rogue?.
sorry if i sound passive-aggressive but as an experienced rogue i cant really relate to your problem neither is adding a point of view gameplay wise.

[Grof]

Spending some time on the target dummy and investing on some good WAs pays off a bunch with learning the rotation of specs. I think its a correct path to bring back iconic rogue skills back and I welcome the changes. Honestly though, even 10 min per game day on the target dummy and then some BGs etc will easily teach someone who cares the rotations etc.

Other things that can help: Macros, good gaming mouse. Its 2020, invest on your hardware/software.

Its 2020,and you are still muppet, if you think hardware/software is issue for spec.

[jimmy valmer]

Outlaw was ok in legion but throughout bfa and now sl its lookin like shite. Just go back to combat with bandits guile like really it shouldn't have been changed...

[threads]

this spec does feel mega clunky now imo. feels like the devs got in a fight of old combat vs pirate rogue and made some mix of the 2.

personally i wish they would just go back to pre-legion combat rogue, it was way better.

[Redzonetode]

Just go back to combat with bandits guile like really it shouldn't have been changed...

never happening, and combat rogue's toolkit is infinitely less interesting than outlaws

- - - Updated - - -

this spec does feel mega clunky now imo. feels like the devs got in a fight of old combat vs pirate rogue and made some mix of the 2.

personally i wish they would just go back to pre-legion combat rogue, it was way better.

how is prepatch outlaw anything like old combat? what elements does it borrow from it?

[Razorice]

I don't know, I quite enjoy the spec.
I don't think it has too many buttons, the rotation feels pretty fluid, however one thing I dislike is having to use BtW as part of the rotation.
It just doesn't feel right.

[Evolixe]

There's just so many abilities now, I just don't know where I'm going to keybind them.

Roll The Bones and Slice & Dice was always an either/or. Now I have to maintain both?

Between The Eyes AND Kidney Shot?

You're only going to use kidney shot when you're actually looking for a stun, otherwise never. It doesn't do any damage.

Also, if you're having trouble binding ~25 abilities I really think you should rethink your keybinding.
I've got some 50 keybinds and that is very conservative with what it used to be back in cataclysm.

Then again.. I havn't set up PvP binds properly since returning from a break yet.

[pokies]

your entire complaint is just "I havent adapted to the new changes yet" which says nothing of the quality of those changes, despite you saying it's "terrible" in the OP

idk how you would've survived when blizzard was doing complete overhauls of classes/specs lmao

This ... nothing less. Tbh, I do like the changes they made to rogue, and I somewhat enjoy the "fantasy" behind it as well.

[thottstation]

The trouble is the imbalance between Outlaw and Assassination regarding how much buttons you get.

I usually mirror button placement (major ability on same keybind, minor ones on same keybinds, etc), while keeping universal ones in permanant spots. But with Outlaw getting a ridiculous number of extra buttons to press and Assassination getting maybe two, it just doesn't sync up.

[Acidmetal]

Sounds like you're just not used with the new stuff, all I did was couple of weakauras for SnD and roll the bones, feels nice to have a bit more to do now.

[Snater]

I actually enjoy outlaw the most out of all rogue specs. However, I'm very new to playing a rogue and it is a big change coming from a fury warrior where I have to spam the keyboard so hard I almost get carpal tunnel syndrome. Do you guys press a button every gcd or do you just keep the important stuff on cooldown and make sure you dont cap on energy?

[Gurg]

I actually enjoy outlaw the most out of all rogue specs. However, I'm very new to playing a rogue and it is a big change coming from a fury warrior where I have to spam the keyboard so hard I almost get carpal tunnel syndrome. Do you guys press a button every gcd or do you just keep the important stuff on cooldown and make sure you dont cap on energy?

Welcome!
Capping on energy is like overcapping on fury. Primary resource wasted, so you should try not to cap often.
Pooling comes in play for assassination rogue, when you want to pool, but not cap, your energy before casting Envenom so you can quickly cast Mutilate's and apply beefy poisons within Envenom window.

Anyhow, Outlaw does become speedy/spammy with better stats and good roll of the bones, but even then i find it way more fun than 3 button spam fury with +1 in execute phase.

[fossilgenera]

There's just so many abilities now, I just don't know where I'm going to keybind them.

Roll The Bones and Slice & Dice was always an either/or. Now I have to maintain both?

Between The Eyes AND Kidney Shot?

Shiv was always optional. Now it's default along with Dreadblades. Two more I need to keybind.

An n52 AND a multi-button mouse, and still not enough room.

Are you just using like 15 keybinds? rogue still doesnt have much in terms of button bloat, Im not exactly sure where the problem comes from for you, and I definitely dont use an MMO mouse. Also, the only spec that has to use shiv in their primary rotation, and not as utility, is assassination, since it is the baseline version of toxic blades