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  1. #21
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    ahhh yes, another day, another "sylvanas is secretly good/mind controlled"-thread
    Barely two months to go. Hold on!! We are almost through this!
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    I limited it to the relevant parts, as it does not change things.

    Not saying it´s a sign of old god corruption, just pointing it out as a clear change that may certainly be indicative of more. The corruption part is speculation and i have not pretended that it is otherwise.

    How is the "We are the Forsaken" not relevant? Your entire point with that quote is based on her referring to her and something that isn't the forsaken.

    It isn't a clear change, considering she had made had the full intention of using the blight before her death at ICC.

  3. #23
    I don't think Sylvanas is under the control of Yogg Saron's echoes. I think it's pretty clear from Edge of Night taken together with the Uther cinematic that she was simply tricked by the Jailer. He sent the Val'kyr to collect Sylvanas' soul and bring it to him, having learned perhaps that this was possible from Uther's intervention with Arthas, or perhaps this simply granted him the anima he needed to pull it off.

    The reason that I don't think that the Old Gods are involved is simple. "The Light has made a pact with the enemy of all." All signs point to this enemy being the Jailer, and the Light's part of the bargain seems to me have been delivering Arthas' soul to him. The Void is unhappy about this deal, and sees the Jailer as an enemy, not a friend. Yogg Saron wouldn't make a deal with him.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaqthefat View Post
    How is the "We are the Forsaken" not relevant? Your entire point with that quote is based on her referring to her and something that isn't the forsaken.

    It isn't a clear change, considering she had made had the full intention of using the blight before her death at ICC.
    Because it´s no different one way or the other; it would still refer to the forsaken even if they weren't mentioned.

    Intention to use the blight maybe, but to ruin her own objectives with it? While now attacking hard to reach people who were extremely isolationistic to the point of just letting Lordaeron die to the plague and scourge? While formerly limiting herself to dealing with things that actually threatened her? It is quite a stretch to say that it is not a clear change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    I don't think Sylvanas is under the control of Yogg Saron's echoes. I think it's pretty clear from Edge of Night taken together with the Uther cinematic that she was simply tricked by the Jailer. He sent the Val'kyr to collect Sylvanas' soul and bring it to him, having learned perhaps that this was possible from Uther's intervention with Arthas, or perhaps this simply granted him the anima he needed to pull it off.

    The reason that I don't think that the Old Gods are involved is simple. "The Light has made a pact with the enemy of all." All signs point to this enemy being the Jailer, and the Light's part of the bargain seems to me have been delivering Arthas' soul to him. The Void is unhappy about this deal, and sees the Jailer as an enemy, not a friend. Yogg Saron wouldn't make a deal with him.
    Fair points, personally i interpreted "the enemy of all" as the void though, given how death seems to me to be an indelible part of reality whereas void seems like a more absolute end, thus a more true enemy of all.
    And i figured the pact would be shown through Turalyon and Alleria's odd coupling.

    But going with your interpretation one would expect the old gods to meddle in "our favor" in the Shadowlands, and Yogg-Saron still has his saronite edifice pointing straight into the maw, so i would still expect him to make some appearance in your version too.
    Last edited by loras; 2020-09-07 at 08:25 PM.

  5. #25
    Did people here forget that the first thing Sylvanas did after regaining her free-will was mind control bandits, gnolls, ogres, trolls, and other creatures that were neutral and minding their own business? All because she needed more meat to throw at Varimathras? And despite lamenting how she had been mind-controlled herself?

    Sylvanas has always been hypocritical and aggressive. What she did after her second death is nothing new.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    Barely two months to go. Hold on!! We are almost through this!
    it'll never stop lmao
    even when we kill her in a boss fight where she yells stuff like "ALL OF THE COSMOS WILL BURN! DEATH CANT BE STOPPED!" they will continue
    just you wait xD
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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    Fair points, personally i interpreted "the enemy of all" as the void though, given how death seems to me to be an indelible part of reality whereas void seems like a more absolute end, thus a more true enemy of all.
    And i figured the pact would be shown through Turalyon and Alleria's odd coupling.

    But going with your interpretation one would expect the old gods to meddle in "our favor" in the Shadowlands, and Yogg-Saron still has his saronite edifice pointing straight into the maw, so i would still expect him to make some appearance in your version too.
    The problem with that interpretation is that the references to the "Enemy of All" come from the Void itself, first to Alleria in the Three Sisters comic, and then again to us in Nazjatar. The Void doesn't likely consider itself to be its own enemy.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    Because it´s no different one way or the other; it would still refer to the forsaken even if they weren't mentioned.

    Intention to use the blight maybe, but to ruin her own objectives with it? While now attacking hard to reach people who were extremely isolationistic to the point of just letting Lordaeron die to the plague and scourge? While formerly limiting herself to dealing with things that actually threatened her? It is quite a stretch to say that it is not a clear change.
    You're doubling back left and right on this quote thing.

    It's not a change at all. I would be surprised if Sylvanas didn't use the blight on Gilneas regardless of if she was ordered to or not. WC3 Sylvanas did fucked up shit while she had freewill and she has kept doing all that shit throughout her entire time on WoW.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by bagina View Post
    Such a broad assumption from one line of text of a rando npc. It could mean a shitton of things. It could also be a Forsaken over-selling Sylvanas which they tend to do. If it didn't came from Sylvanas mouth well... Don't know why people place so much importance on world quests when they so often contradict each other



    Anyone "standing in their way", important distinction. If someone attacks you you tend to defend yourself.

    I don't see how trying to kill off humans in Hillsbrad should be considered genoicidal, humans were trying to do the same to Forsaken. They were at war with each other, killing each other is whay you do during war.
    how many quotes and links are enough to be sure that Sylvanas was genocidal bitch since the beginning?

    WC3 tft.
    Vanilla -.new plague. above linked quest and lots of other testings on everybody. even on her own forsaken (arthas. rise of the.lich king book)
    her sending aphotwcaries around the world for researchs on plague

    she sent forsaken agent to Razormanes to help them and get alliance with them. while same razormanes were allied to scourge and were enemies of her new allies, orcs and tauren

    quests in Tirisfal. Silverpine. Hillsbrad. methods that she used for fighting. even reviving person allied to KT for her reasons.
    there was a quest in duskwood. forsakens send horde players to stonard. where orcs captired a human civilain. this guy saw something that he shouldnot have seen and was poisoned by forsaken. they lied to player that potion would help make this person talke. but killed him so he couldnot tell truth to orc captors

    and lots of other stuff

    everything in vanilla pointed that she was up to no good. hell you can even play classics now to check it or go to wow.gameperdia. etc

    in wotlk she tested plagues on lots of others

    alliance forces
    local vrykul
    so on

  10. #30
    Pandaren Monk Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Did people here forget that the first thing Sylvanas did after regaining her free-will was mind control bandits, gnolls, ogres, trolls, and other creatures that were neutral and minding their own business? All because she needed more meat to throw at Varimathras? And despite lamenting how she had been mind-controlled herself?

    Sylvanas has always been hypocritical and aggressive. What she did after her second death is nothing new.
    me thinks she actually canonically massacred the trolls based on her dialogues
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    The problem with that interpretation is that the references to the "Enemy of All" come from the Void itself, first to Alleria in the Three Sisters comic, and then again to us in Nazjatar. The Void doesn't likely consider itself to be its own enemy.
    That´s fair, on the other hand that may be exactly as intended.
    I nonetheless see your point of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaqthefat View Post
    You're doubling back left and right on this quote thing.
    I suppose it might seem that way to you as it just strikes me as entirely irrelevant, given that, again, it seems to change exactly nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaqthefat View Post
    It's not a change at all. I would be surprised if Sylvanas didn't use the blight on Gilneas regardless of if she was ordered to or not. WC3 Sylvanas did fucked up shit while she had freewill and she has kept doing all that shit throughout her entire time on WoW.
    ...That is exactly what she did, she used it regardless of whether she was ordered or not., or rather ordered not to. Point and difference with pre-WotLK Sylvanas limiting herself to brutality towards threats that were, well, threats in addition to not letting her brutality get in the way of her own objectives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    me thinks she actually canonically massacred the trolls based on her dialogues
    That would be very in-character for a recently deceased ranger-general of Silvermoon.

  12. #32
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foolicious View Post
    Conveniently now with shadowlands this statement opens up the possible return of old gods even more than the previous out of cycle statement xD
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    A bit odd to hold on to that so tightly given how far lesser creatures have been shown time and time again to be revivable without too much hassle, and that their whole schtick is being nigh impossible to kill or surprise.
    And it's not like they've never reneged on their promises or clashed with earlier statements of their own, if they were ever worth much to begin with given that lore is defined in their products and not their statements outside of it.

    they can reviv, being ressurect is always a possibility, but for you to revive something they need to be dead in the first place, so this thing of out of cycle is bullshit

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post


    I suppose it might seem that way to you as it just strikes me as entirely irrelevant, given that, again, it seems to change exactly nothing.



    ...That is exactly what she did, she used it regardless of whether she was ordered or not., or rather ordered not to. Point and difference with pre-WotLK Sylvanas limiting herself to brutality towards threats that were, well, threats in addition to not letting her brutality get in the way of her own objectives.

    The entire premise of your point was based on the fact that she was referring to an unknown entity. Not to mention this quote existed well before wrath of the lich king.

    Sylvanas never limited herself pre-wrath. She did whatever she could and whatever she wanted.

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