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  1. #21
    All things considered I think they do a pretty damn decent job at balancing. Yeah, it's not perfect and there's always issues - But for the amount of systems that they have to work with it's a miracle it's not worse.

    Outside of PvP it's very rarely as bad as people make it out to be, and even PvP really only feels the effects because of PvE systems for the most part (trinkets, corruption, essences). Obviously there are tonnes of examples of totally busted PvP moments (Like tanks in arena), but that's typically the exception and not the rule, the better team still generally tends to win when all else is equal.

  2. #22
    That has to be one of the most obvious, but at the same time trollish thread titles i have ever read about this game.

    They are absolutely horrendous at balancing. They have never ever had a time where they have managed to balance all classes equally.

    EVER!

  3. #23
    They're okay at balancing. In general the game is pretty balanced tbh considering it's an MMORPG.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Easyclassictopkeklel View Post
    WoW never was balanced and never will be. Complaining about it is absolutely pointless...
    I'm not complaining about balance. I'm complaining about them adding 10 different layers of power systems to the game at the same time

  5. #25
    Immortal Nnyco's Avatar
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    No, its just impossible to make everyone equally strong but at the same time unique with special abilities. Just the fact that you can play basically any spec right now and do any content just proves that they arent bad at it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    No, its just impossible to make everyone equally strong but at the same time unique with special abilities. Just the fact that you can play basically any spec right now and do any content just proves that they arent bad at it.
    its also the reason that additional classes or fourth specs are bad ideas.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Izzyfurious View Post
    That has to be one of the most obvious, but at the same time trollish thread titles i have ever read about this game.
    To be honest, the thread is more a protest against all the gear/talent systems they add to the game

    - Legendaries
    - Artifact weapons
    - Azerite gear
    - Essences
    - Corruption gear
    - Covenant abilities
    - Soul binds
    - Conduits
    - More legendaries

    We don't need all this shit for the game to be fun. Just create some amazing raids, dungeons and similar stuff. Create some more Mage towers and other engaging solo content. Make some more cool stuff we can do in the open world instead of wasting all your time on these stupid gear systems that nobody needs.

  8. #28
    Stood in the Fire Krimzin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    Oof that bootlicker statement.

    They are damned if they do and don't admit that what they tried doesn't work
    Funny, just because I disagree, Im a bootlicker.
    When you have absolutely nothing you can retort, you attack.
    I am surprised you didn't find something wrong with my grammar, LOL.

    Its OK. You've got nothing because you know I'm right. It doesn't matter what Blizzard does, there will always be folks like you who complain that it's wrong.
    Just because I'm a gamer doesn't mean I drive a Honda.
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    Battle Station Light or Battle Station Dark




  9. #29
    Balancing is super hard unless every class is super easy to play. If classes are balanced for top players, then they probably are not balanced for average players, because they are unable to play hard classes to their full potential.

    This is one of the reasons why for example DHs are called "super broken" among lower tier players that do low m+ (lower than 18 or so), because it is easy class to perform with. For top players it's just a good class amongst the other 5 top performers.

    So considering the players, classes and content are very different from each other, I think they are doing just fine.
    Last edited by facefist; 2020-09-07 at 03:21 PM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by facefist View Post
    Balancing is super hard unless every class is super easy to play. If classes are balanced for top players, then they probably are not balanced for average players, because they are unable to play hard classes to their full potential.

    This is one of the reasons why for example DHs are called "super broken" among lower tier players that do low m+ (lower than 18 or so), because it is easy class to perform with. For top players it's just a good class amongst the other 5 top performers.

    So considering the players, classes and content are very different from each other, I think they are doing just fine.
    It was at this moment this smart guy showed up.
    "low m+ (lower than 18 or so)"

    Less than 1% of the population playing wow is doing 18+, thanks for...

    Nothing ?

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Elridys View Post
    It was at this moment this smart guy showed up.
    "low m+ (lower than 18 or so)"

    Less than 1% of the population playing wow is doing 18+, thanks for...

    Nothing ?
    He's probably best buds with this dude, who claims "any casual" can +3 an 18.

  12. #32
    Honestly I think average gamer is under illusion that he is smarter than average game dev and knows better how to balance things, which in majority of cases is obviously delusional.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Elridys View Post
    It was at this moment this smart guy showed up.
    "low m+ (lower than 18 or so)"

    Less than 1% of the population playing wow is doing 18+, thanks for...

    Nothing ?
    Well the truth is that only 1% can play their class to optimal levels so it's either make every class easy to play or there will be differences in the balance between different skill levels of players.

    As much as every casual wants to think that they lose because their class is worse, often the reason is that the other player is just better. So make both classes easy to play optimally = easier to balance.

  14. #34
    The last time WoW felt balanced, aka the Normal and Heroic raid content was properly tuned.... was Warlords of Draenor.
    That also happens to be the last time before Blizzard added all this extra... junk.. to "balance".

  15. #35
    Warchief Sluvs's Avatar
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    Compared to other MMOs, WoW is the pinnacle of balance.

    But IMO, theses systems that they create, as the OP said, is simply way too much for anyone to balance, and they still make every class somewhat viable.

    This is both a testament to their competence and their hubris at the same time.

    It's like they decided that balancing was to easy and unlocked mythic mode for themselves.
    I don't want solutions. I want to be mad. - PoorlyDrawnlines

  16. #36
    I do often wonder why things are balanced a certain way or why things that are seemingly imbalanced go untouched. I also *slightly* believe that blizzard intentionally leaves things a little out of balance so flavor of the month classes still happen. Just a hunch though.

    With that said, I do not have the data they collect nor am I experienced at all in game design. So I have no idea if it's even achievable.

  17. #37
    I mean, compared to some ideal and completely impossible version of balance where every spec is within 5% of each other in all content and the majority of builds and compositions are viable in anything up to Hall of Fame raiding, 25+ keys and top-rated arenas, yeah the balance is bad.

    Compared to what one can reasonably expect to be doable when there's 36 specs with several builds each, tens of thousands of item and secondary power combinations, tons of different utility to keep tabs on across a wide swath of content ranging from small group PvE to large-scale battlegrounds, Mythic raiding and arenas? Could be better, but it could be so, so much worse (hi Classic).

    Compared to other MMOs, WoW is basically Starcraft 1- tier of well balanced.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Spacewalrus2010 View Post
    I do often wonder why things are balanced a certain way or why things that are seemingly imbalanced go untouched. I also *slightly* believe that blizzard intentionally leaves things a little out of balance so flavor of the month classes still happen. Just a hunch though.
    It's impossible to balance everything. And even if it was possible, shit like this would happen so it's kind of a pointless effort to begin with.

    The problem with modern WoW is that the systems they design aren't put in simply "because fuck you," as most players on this forum will say. They exist because modern WoW is very much a byproduct of a paradigm shift in how games in general are designed. It's the same reason you see shit like the new Marvel's Avengers game being transitioned from a single player experience to a live service chock full of microtransactions. A simple video game is no longer enough to sustain itself. There are so many people working in the industry and so many mouths to feed for large Triple-A game studios that in order for anything to be considered profitable in today's video game climate it has to have hours and hours of repeatable content (or, as Triple-A developers will call it... engagement). WoW is no different in this regard, except in the very unique way that it was already pretty grindy before game developers became obsessed with engagement data; it just became even more so in recent years. It doesn't look like this trend will be letting up any time soon so the best bet for us, as fans of WoW, is to hope that they learn from the issues of prior systems and continue to iterate on them to a point that doesn't make the game feel like a chore to play. On that front, I'm skeptical about Shadowlands for a number of reasons but only time will tell.
    Last edited by otaXephon; 2020-09-07 at 04:18 PM.

  19. #39
    What is increasingly ironic that Blizzard loves to pull the "It might confuse players" or "Players could make the wrong choice" excuse on a lot of elements (such as PvP Stats & PvP Vendors) but at the same time throws in these systems that require actual research on the player part to get the full picture.

    The amount of research required to fully grasp the newest systems since WoD is getting worse.

    Compare that to the Glyph System in Wotlk, was indepth research necessary on that system?
    All you needed to look for were Class specific glyph, pick the ones you think are best and possibly change them later if discover that others are superior.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2020-09-07 at 04:24 PM.

  20. #40
    They are bad at balancing borrowed powers. The bigger question, though, is whether they are intentionally bad at it. If one random legion legendary or one azerite item or one corruption is so much better than the rest and it's all RNG whether it drops for you or not, then the average player is going to need to grind a lot more to get the desired item. If all legendaries were equally powerful then you just need one legendary drop and you're done with the grind. Same with azerite items. Same with corruptions.

    Covenants are a bit different, though. They don't really push for a grind of renown for all covenants. They want you to pick one and stick to it, so they have more incentive to make balance better than usually.

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