Shadowlands won't fix the RtB issue.

[Kaver]

In Shadowlands, Blizzard are "fixing"/restricting rerolling of RtB by slapping a CD on it. But why were we even rerolling in the first place? Because some of the buffs are much stonger than the others and they still are. So Blizzard haven't fixed the problem at all, they have instead just restricted the solution. Our damage are still going to fluctuate a lot based on RNG. And they have even added a soul bind that has 7% to reset the CD of RtB because they know players will want to reroll. Blizzard always do this. Instead of fixing the problem they just limit the solution. But the problem is still there.

[ymirsson]

Because Blizzard is beholden to the pirate fantasy they created. And as we all well know, pirates love to take chances and gamble. Only thing we're missing is a Talent called "Never tell me the Odds" which buffs RtB somehow.

[StillMcfuu]

Because Blizzard is beholden to the pirate fantasy they created. And as we all well know, pirates love to take chances and gamble. Only thing we're missing is a Talent called "Never tell me the Odds" which buffs RtB somehow.

Honestly, I thought RTB should have been less RNG, Pirates are known for cheating... I think for normal rolls it would be the typical buffs, but for damage windows, RTB should have been limited to 3 roll minimum without combining the crappier buffs.

[bloodmoth13]

Rerolling was pretty crappy gameplay, dealing with the hand dealt i think was always the intention, i think the buffs should always be only between 2/3, and put a roll thats all 5 as a separate 5 min CD or something.
I think the changes are pretty much perfect, rerolling wasnt optional because the potential damage gain was too high, so it was mandatory, making it non-mandatory was the right decision.

[Jibbler]

Rerolling was pretty crappy gameplay, dealing with the hand dealt i think was always the intention, i think the buffs should always be only between 2/3, and put a roll thats all 5 as a separate 5 min CD or something.
I think the changes are pretty much perfect, rerolling wasnt optional because the potential damage gain was too high, so it was mandatory, making it non-mandatory was the right decision.

I agree its better now that you can't reroll, but the core issue remains that you can get stuck with bad rolls and your damage suffers as a result. Why would I play this when I can pick Ass or Sub and have far greater control of my damage.
I've never hated rogue more than when I needed high damage output for an add that popped up in a raid or dungeon and get one or two rolls and do terrible damage to it.

[Kaver]

Rerolling was pretty crappy gameplay, dealing with the hand dealt i think was always the intention, i think the buffs should always be only between 2/3, and put a roll thats all 5 as a separate 5 min CD or something.
I think the changes are pretty much perfect, rerolling wasnt optional because the potential damage gain was too high, so it was mandatory, making it non-mandatory was the right decision.

But my point is that the potential damage gain is still the same. So they haven’t changed WHY it was mandatory to reroll. The disadvantage of getting bad roll is still the same as before.

[bloodmoth13]

Why would I play this when I can pick Ass

hur hurr

well thats a balancing issue, the damage potential between two rolls ideally shouldnt be that big, and no matter the roll you are still getting damage buffs, they are just different. I like the pacing of the spec, you cant have highs without lows otherwise you get SnD, which i frikkin hate as a skill.

- - - Updated - - -

Is it?

It comes down to balance, if they balanced the spec around the idea that you would be stuck with a bad roll for X time, then they can afford to buff it in certain other areas (even that specific area), if they let you reroll constantly then they have to balance around the best case scenario where you might get stuck with the worst case.

Managing RNG this way does a lot for tuning IMO.

[Delano]

With the change of RTB to a cooldown I was hoping they'd fix the disparity between the buffs as well. Didn't work out that way... Outlaw is kind of a mess right now.

[Kaver]

With the change of RTB to a cooldown I was hoping they'd fix the disparity between the buffs as well. Didn't work out that way... Outlaw is kind of a mess right now.

Yes. Putting a CD on RtB seems completely pointless if they don’t do a better job balancing the buffs.

[Jibbler]

the damage potential between two rolls ideally shouldnt be that big, and no matter the roll you are still getting damage buffs, they are just different. I like the pacing of the spec, you cant have highs without lows otherwise you get SnD

You're right, having the buff balanced would make the skill very boring to play since you'd basically have 2 slice and dice buffs and thats why its a bad ability. There is no way to have it interesting while still being able to predict your damage. even if all the individual buffs were balanced a 5 buff and a 1 buff roll are going to have massive differences in damage

[Aleksej89]

Constantly rerolling RtB was the worst class-related gameplay i have ever experienced in WoW.

The only thing worse that short duration buffs you have to constantly keep active is when you have to recast such buffs in a row over and over.

[Sunderella]

RtB should go the same route HfB went. In a game where performance is the only thing that matters, a RNG lottery skill is plain bad design. This skill will never work in a consistent way unless they change it to give non-damage related buffs like movement speed, leech, dodge and the like or serious rework of buffs happen. None of these two seems likely.

Right now, you don't reroll because is not longer possible not because is not needed.

[bloodmoth13]

You're right, having the buff balanced would make the skill very boring to play since you'd basically have 2 slice and dice buffs and thats why its a bad ability. There is no way to have it interesting while still being able to predict your damage. even if all the individual buffs were balanced a 5 buff and a 1 buff roll are going to have massive differences in damage

I did suggest removing the 5 buff roll potential and shifting that to a separate ability that just gives all 5 buffs on a 5 min CD (reduced by the CD reducing effect)
I think getting a collection of 2-3 buffs is perfectly acceptable in most scenarios, the rare 5 buff roll just really skewers the ability. The variation with the 5 buffs and their combinations provides plenty of fun, just separate the most eggregious edge cases from the intended use cases.

[Delano]

What sucks is RTB could easily be a fun ability to use. Make all of the buffs roughly the same in power but require different short term playstyle adaptations. Poof, fixed.

[Kaver]

What sucks is RTB could easily be a fun ability to use. Make all of the buffs roughly the same in power but require different short term playstyle adaptations. Poof, fixed.

This seems like the obvious solution right? I don’t understand why Blizzard can’t see it.

[exsanguinate]

I guess it's to late for them to touch it again. Will remain until next addon.

[ayako]

In Shadowlands, Blizzard are "fixing"/restricting rerolling of RtB by slapping a CD on it. But why were we even rerolling in the first place? Because some of the buffs are much stonger than the others and they still are. So Blizzard haven't fixed the problem at all, they have instead just restricted the solution. Our damage are still going to fluctuate a lot based on RNG. And they have even added a soul bind that has 7% to reset the CD of RtB because they know players will want to reroll. Blizzard always do this. Instead of fixing the problem they just limit the solution. But the problem is still there.

It's fixed in the sense that our dps was balanced around not being able to fish as often for ideal buffs. This also makes it a "tiny" bit more fun getting to actually use finishers at all now.

As noted in a later comment, the actually ideal solution was to make all the buffs roughly equal, with the result of your roll altering your gameplay. (Beyond just Broadsides finisher usage/minor changes)

[cparle87]

This seems like the obvious solution right? I don’t understand why Blizzard can’t see it.

It's not exactly a gamble if the end result is the same every time, is it? Besides, even if the weakest buff is stronger than SnD then you still end up ahead.

[deenman]

In Shadowlands, Blizzard are "fixing"/restricting rerolling of RtB by slapping a CD on it. But why were we even rerolling in the first place? Because some of the buffs are much stonger than the others and they still are. So Blizzard haven't fixed the problem at all, they have instead just restricted the solution. Our damage are still going to fluctuate a lot based on RNG. And they have even added a soul bind that has 7% to reset the CD of RtB because they know players will want to reroll. Blizzard always do this. Instead of fixing the problem they just limit the solution. But the problem is still there.

if one of the rtb buffs was only 0.04% better than the rest people would still be rerolling,the issue is in the nature of the spell itself,cant help that unless theyc ahnged it completly

[Kaver]

It's fixed in the sense that our dps was balanced around not being able to fish as often for ideal buffs. This also makes it a "tiny" bit more fun getting to actually use finishers at all now.

As noted in a later comment, the actually ideal solution was to make all the buffs roughly equal, with the result of your roll altering your gameplay. (Beyond just Broadsides finisher usage/minor changes)

They still balance the class around the maximum potential. So they are balancing based on having getting good buffs. For an Outlaw Rogue to keep up with a WW monk you need good RNG and that sucks. On average you’re behind. They do this because otherwise all the top logs would be lucky Outlaw Rogues.

The conduits have made it a lot better.

- - - Updated - - -

if one of the rtb buffs was only 0.04% better than the rest people would still be rerolling,the issue is in the nature of the spell itself,cant help that unless theyc ahnged it completly

The need of rerolling would be lower. And average performance would be better and more consistent. Plus they already limited the rerolling.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not exactly a gamble if the end result is the same every time, is it? Besides, even if the weakest buff is stronger than SnD then you still end up ahead.

You know that we have both SnD and RtB now right?