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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Oneirophobia View Post
    It's the same people bitching ad nauseam about the covenants. Even though Blizzard is not optimizing any difficulty level around covenants these addicts think they have to switch their cov between every trash pull to get that extra 3% on the meters.

    Switching between raid teirs, sure, switching several times a day for everything else? Stop it. You don't need to do that.
    It honestly seems like they are nerfing content around covenants or at the very least going with a more approachable design for sl. Mythic+ is roughly the same difficulty as last tier but the new affix and the covenant buffs trivialize large sections of the dungeon and you can nearly one shot bosses even on tyrannical with them.

    The first raid at least for testing seems oddly easy when in the past bosses where made harder for testing purposes... add to that and suddenly nearly every boss has a bleed to the point there is discussion if it is worth while to roll alliance for dwarf's racial ability to bypass most mechanics rather then be the covenant that removes bleeds is a thing...

    It feels like they put all their eggs into one basket that clearly has a hole in it. End of the day I am still going to play it even if I am getting a wrath naxx vibe off the first tier in terms of difficulty I will still enjoy it.. it feels more like a big case of what could of been. I see it as a passable expansion that could of easily been a great one.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    What do you mean theres currently 8 layers per wing? Have they changed the format since the character wipe on beta?

    Im not a fan of first floor being the gate keeper. It means that once ive done the first and mby second floor, its often a guaranteed win from there and it feels like just a time sink to complete it. There should still be a danger imo.

    I think the bosses should be redesigned from the dps checks they are now to a more mechanicly driven fight like the ones we see in brawlers fights etc. because as you said, sometimes bosses can be brutal if one has had a bad streak of powerups.. and its really disheartening to see the boss regen shields faster than you can dps him (or the adds hes draining the shiled from) down nomatter what you do :<
    https://imgur.com/a/nGWlzEx

    after you've completed a wing, you unlock the ability to do that same wing on a higher layer. SO the First time you do it, it is floor 1-6, then layer 2 is 7-12... etc up to 8 layers. This is to break it up so you dont get too stupidly strong and steamroll your way through the next 60 layers. And yes, it gets increasingly harder the further up you go.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu fhtagn View Post
    They have not confirmed that infinite mode would be cancelled. It does however look like they have opted into infinitely scaling 18 floors, so when you complete your first 18 floor run you unlock "difficulty 2" for another set of 18. Wouldn't be surprised if that's how it goes live.

    They opted to give powers at such high rate inside torghast that it feels like an impossibility to keep scaling stuff past 20 levels and keep it in any kind of a balance. Personally i would have liked every now and then doing so well that you end up with a 4 hour run, but most people prolly would not so they keep them in 18 level chunks.
    Pretty much. After 18 floors, things would get so ridiculous that there's no way they can keep it both a reasonable challenge and adjust for power luck.

  4. #24
    they should make it truly infinite but doesn't give any rewards at some point except satisfaction and competition, like mythic+ and proving grounds
    how hard is that...

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Cæli View Post
    they should make it truly infinite but doesn't give any rewards at some point except satisfaction and competition, like mythic+ and proving grounds
    how hard is that...
    You'd be looking at people running about with 200% Versa and things like that. Take a guess.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Vishiz View Post
    after you've completed a wing, you unlock the ability to do that same wing on a higher layer.
    ah that whats you mean by layers. then im with you. So the first 7 portals caps at 48 then? and the twisting corridors at 60? That sounds... dissapointingly low. I had expected it to go higher.

    Given that i managed to reach, start and complete the 37-54 one in twisting corridors. That would correspond to layer 7 in difficulty then. And this was with the useless premade lvl 60 gear and no consumables.

    If thorgast caps out at 8 layers we will probobly reach and blast throu the highest possible floor on week1.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  7. #27
    Scarab Lord crakerjack's Avatar
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    I'm glad they capped it at 6 and 18. This content might be fun the first few times through, but I doubt I'll be saying the same thing a year from release when I look at it as a tedious task. Glad all I have to do is the 6 level one, prefer to spend time gearing alts than grinding torghast on one character.
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Inukashi View Post
    Meh, that's sad. I had so much hope in Torghast to be the one thing I wanna do when playing wow.

    But making it again a a timesink where the only reason to run it, is it's low drop chance on cosmetics is sad. Thought it would be some kind of Magetower where you are rewarded for skill and not again for massive amounts of time like on island transmog farms.

    Thanks for the information, though!
    well you set yourself up for disapointment from day 1,even if it was ''infinite'',the reward system would still be the same,it would have worked like m+,personaly i dont understand why they didnt just leave it infinite..the rewards even the cosmetic ones would have capped at some point anyways

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    Probably the usual reasons. Massive amounts of whiners crying about how they'd have to spend all their time in Torghast to progress their characters.
    huh?why would anyone say that?an infinite torghast would function like m+,rewards would cap at some point

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by goldlock View Post
    It doesn't really work like this currently or at least not since last week I admit I have been on beta less and less recently as I am rerolling on another server for SL.

    Right now you do eight wings during the story and none of them are hard (I am a long time world 50-200 mythic raider but I feel like if you got through a heroic scenario in mop you will get through these), What talents you pick don't really matter unless you start chain pulling since disruption mobs start becoming an issue. Once you are done those eight you unlock the weekly to go into one of those eight and it remains trivial. You also unlock a infinite mode...but you have to restart it after X amounts of floors.

    The issue with infinite mode is that rarely are mobs all that skipable in the tower and eventually it becomes a gear check to see if you can get survive long enough to get the anima power to kill mobs. Luck plays a part in it but really when it comes to the cosmetic gear I expect it to be more of a gear check then a skill check and given its time consuming nature I expect it to become another carry service option rather then some game mode players throw themselves again.
    This sounds exactly as what my journey in throgast was so id say it does indeed work exactly like what i described.
    7 questlines to save various npcs that was all dogshit easy. One in each portal. Then unlocking twisting corridor wich went by increments of 18 instead of 6. and as you started to climb and starting your runs from a higher starting point, you eventualy hit a wall, not in the boss but in the starting floor.

    I started on floor 37, and it took me 45min to get throu the first floor with hero and all cds on every single elite on that floor. But after the first floor, it was going faster and faster and became easier and easier. After floor 40 where the vendor was everything became as easy as starting from floor 1 pretty much.

    and thats what i dislike about throgast, that the first boring level is the gatekeeper, they should retune it so that the final boss is whats actaully hardest imo. difficulty should ramp up, not down, as you progress upwards in your 18floor run imo.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    This sounds exactly as what my journey in throgast was so id say it does indeed work exactly like what i described.
    7 questlines to save various npcs that was all dogshit easy. One in each portal. Then unlocking twisting corridor wich went by increments of 18 instead of 6. and as you started to climb and starting your runs from a higher starting point, you eventualy hit a wall, not in the boss but in the starting floor.

    I started on floor 37, and it took me 45min to get throu the first floor with hero and all cds on every single elite on that floor. But after the first floor, it was going faster and faster and became easier and easier. After floor 40 where the vendor was everything became as easy as starting from floor 1 pretty much.

    and thats what i dislike about throgast, that the first boring level is the gatekeeper, they should retune it so that the final boss is whats actaully hardest imo. difficulty should ramp up, not down, as you progress upwards in your 18floor run imo.
    I was able to push it to roughly floor 50 with a lock the ability to chain ccs gives you a real edge at starting floors that said I don't really know how you can change torghast. Its a mini game but the hype around it is absolutely massive... I don't think its going to hold up to the expectation most players have built up in their heads.

    I think it will become more a CM situation from mop and wod. I believe the transmog set will be coveted but require a extensive amount of gear to obtain and will become boosting fodder for higher skilled players to earn some gold outside of raids.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    This sounds exactly as what my journey in throgast was so id say it does indeed work exactly like what i described.
    7 questlines to save various npcs that was all dogshit easy. One in each portal. Then unlocking twisting corridor wich went by increments of 18 instead of 6. and as you started to climb and starting your runs from a higher starting point, you eventualy hit a wall, not in the boss but in the starting floor.

    I started on floor 37, and it took me 45min to get throu the first floor with hero and all cds on every single elite on that floor. But after the first floor, it was going faster and faster and became easier and easier. After floor 40 where the vendor was everything became as easy as starting from floor 1 pretty much.

    and thats what i dislike about throgast, that the first boring level is the gatekeeper, they should retune it so that the final boss is whats actaully hardest imo. difficulty should ramp up, not down, as you progress upwards in your 18floor run imo.
    Sounds like Blizzard failed as hard as one could fail in trying to make a roguelike game. Like they don’t really understand what makes roguelikes so much fun...
    It should only get easier if you get some overpowered ridiculous upgrade combinations which makes it super fun but which you get so rarely that you’ll crave that high of this one godlike run for the next dozen runs.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    Sounds like Blizzard failed as hard as one could fail in trying to make a roguelike game. Like they don’t really understand what makes roguelikes so much fun...
    It should only get easier if you get some overpowered ridiculous upgrade combinations which makes it super fun but which you get so rarely that you’ll crave that high of this one godlike run for the next dozen runs.
    To be fair to blizzard this wasn't supposed to be finely crafted content like raids or dungeons but something for the plebs to enjoy. I have seen how the community reacts to slight challenge like the WoD training grounds silver requirement.

    Spoiler: They really,really don't take it well.

  13. #33
    Such incompetence , literally the only new feature in the expansion and they make it a pathetic 18 levels thing. Remind yourself that's what we are supposed to do during the whole expansion. Isles were bad , but this is even worse

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by valax View Post
    Such incompetence , literally the only new feature in the expansion and they make it a pathetic 18 levels thing. Remind yourself that's what we are supposed to do during the whole expansion. Isles were bad , but this is even worse
    I mean... even if they did make it infinite you would just get to the point of being unstoppable after the 4th floor. This was never going to be a replacement for dungeons or raids. They are better then isles so far but its the mindless grind content it isn't meant for anyone to seriously invest time into.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by goldlock View Post
    To be fair to blizzard this wasn't supposed to be finely crafted content like raids or dungeons but something for the plebs to enjoy. I have seen how the community reacts to slight challenge like the WoD training grounds silver requirement.

    Spoiler: They really,really don't take it well.
    You’re missing the point. Everyone can enjoy a good roguelike game. The “plebs” just don’t get super far with the super crazy affixes that empower you but also enemies. Play Risk of Rain 2 and you might not get far in it and always die in the first or second world because you suck. But then there is this one run where you get a good early upgrade and you snowball to the fourth world and you are hooked. You keep playing and try to get a good combination of powers again and this is the genius part: you keep improving at the game and even without the op combo you are moving to the 3rd and 4th world. And then you get a godlike run again and go further than ever before.

    A good roguelike eases the player into the difficult part which comes later in a run and is wild and hectic and that’s what makes it fun.

    What Blizzard does is again an early roadblock, instead of a progressive curve

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    You’re missing the point. Everyone can enjoy a good roguelike game. The “plebs” just don’t get super far with the super crazy affixes that empower you but also enemies. Play Risk of Rain 2 and you might not get far in it and always die in the first or second world because you suck. But then there is this one run where you get a good early upgrade and you snowball to the fourth world and you are hooked. You keep playing and try to get a good combination of powers again and this is the genius part: you keep improving at the game and even without the op combo you are moving to the 3rd and 4th world. And then you get a godlike run again and go further than ever before.

    A good roguelike eases the player into the difficult part which comes later in a run and is wild and hectic and that’s what makes it fun.

    What Blizzard does is again an early roadblock, instead of a progressive curve
    I am extremely jaded to the "average" wow player. I simply can't have the optimism you do.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by goldlock View Post
    I am extremely jaded to the "average" wow player. I simply can't have the optimism you do.
    My point is simply that people who couldn’t beat proving grounds, could still enjoy Torghast with a progressive difficulty curve. They just reach a roadblock at some point and that roadblock is different for each run because of random powers you get. That’s the genius part of roguelikes. This RNG aspect doesn’t make you feel bad if you get killed because you suck. You can blame it on getting a bad run.
    You couldn’t blame anyone but yourself if you weren’t able to do proving grounds and people didn’t like that feeling

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by goldlock View Post
    To be fair to blizzard this wasn't supposed to be finely crafted content like raids or dungeons but something for the plebs to enjoy. I have seen how the community reacts to slight challenge like the WoD training grounds silver requirement.

    Spoiler: They really,really don't take it well.
    the wod silver requirement recieved negative feedback because it was a stupid waste of time.

    If they want a gatekeeping system they better pick something that players normally do so it only catches the newbies and not force the entire player population to do it.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  19. #39
    I'm glad they didn't. Would have turned into another "esport" thing with score.

  20. #40
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrif View Post
    That's disappointing tbh.

    Was it because blizz can't balance an increasingly difficult endless roguelike dungeon and give out proper items, or why did they ditch it?
    Probably one of the few times Blizz recognized a major problem ahead of time. If they gave out gear with an potentially ever-increasing power, the game's balance would fall apart very rapidly, or people whining incessantly about capped drops.

    TBH, if it forces them to actually create content again (Torghast is the ultimate in lazy development), then we should take it as a victory. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that they will not bother to add any more content than was already planned.

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