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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post
    That's my point.

    When you played WC3 (disregard WoW in this case), Illidan was the only one during that time.

    You have a point about the manual though if people were lucky to have them.
    But it's the same for other hero units as well : Tyrande is the only priestess around, Maiev is the only Warden around, Sylvanas is the only dark ranger, etc.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by eurojust View Post
    But it's the same for other hero units as well : Tyrande is the only priestess around, Maiev is the only Warden around, Sylvanas is the only dark ranger, etc.
    That's developers choice when it came to units.

    Ask them.
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    except she was, she literally was experimenting on prisoners men, women, children, soldier, and civilian,
    to try and make a stronger and stronger plague.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Your not gonna win trying to make this one realize the truth.
    Your have better luck curing Corona with lemon and lime juice

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post
    That's developers choice when it came to units.

    Ask them.
    I'm not asking them, since i already have the answer. It's in the manual/battle.net website. That and the fact that they gave other names (even if it's just for the mp) or that you see multiple characters of the same hero unit while playing the game (for example arthas and uther). I don't see why you would assume that Illidan was the only DH around.

  4. #44
    I give up lol

    When Illidan said Now I am complete I thought that was what made him a true DH at first hence the only one when I played WC3 the first time.

    Turns out it's not like that.
    Last edited by DemonHunter18; 2020-09-09 at 11:43 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    except she was, she literally was experimenting on prisoners men, women, children, soldier, and civilian,
    to try and make a stronger and stronger plague.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Your not gonna win trying to make this one realize the truth.
    Your have better luck curing Corona with lemon and lime juice

  5. #45
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post
    The Black Rock Hold event is happening before he went to Sargeras.

    He was always primary a mage until he got those eyes, tattoos and warglaives which are never mentioned in any WotA source.

    In Well of Eternity dungeon, he was a Demon Hunter.
    That's not really what I'm saying here. Even having the tattoos, lack of eyes, and warglaives didn't automatically confer Demon Hunter status on him in the lore - he was just a Mage (de-powered for the most part due to lack of access to the Well) who had become proficient with Azzinoth's weapons and was relying on the Fel power and Spectral Sight that Sargeras had gifted him with. I'd argue that Illidan didn't *truly* become a Demon Hunter until he consumed the Skull of Gul'dan during the Third War, thereby gaining and codifying the Demon Hunter's signature ability: Metamorphosis. Similarly those who emulated him during and after the War of the Ancients would go on to become informal Demon Hunters themselves, for the most part - the sobriquet "Demon Hunter" being less a function of skill-set then and more a function of presentation and reputation. Demon Hunters come from all backgrounds, and now they all undergo a similar ritual that confers on them their signature abilities and much of their shared mystique (demon traits like horns, scaled skin, etc. etc.)

    Basically the distinction between the title of "Demon Hunter," and the actually profession of Demon Hunter.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyux View Post
    Ok so bottom line is Illidan trained himself as the first DH before the demons ever arrived, he trained a couple more, then the first demon invasion, 10,000 years imprisonment, and then training en masse?

    That makes me wonder how he every trained as a DH before he met a demon? How could he consume a demon soul to use metamorphosis? Or perhaps canonically he couldn't until he consumed the Skull of Gul'dan?
    So let me break down the history real quick. Hopefully this clears things up for you, since some of these events are misplaced for you right now.

    -War of the Ancients 10,000 years ago, demons invade Azeroth due to the Highborne. Illidan was a sorcerer who briefly trained with Malfurion under Cenarius.

    -Later in the war, Illidan pretends to defect to the Highborne, he speaks with Sargeras. Illidan's eyes are burned out with fel fire as a "gift" and he can now see forms of magic.

    -Bunch of stuff happens in the war, Illidan goes back to the Resistance army, gets the warglaives, takes some vials of the Well of Eternity.

    -The Well explodes because of Sargeras and the Demon Soul. The elves and other survivors run as far as they can, reaching Mount Hyjal.

    -Illidan doesn't want to live without magic, so moments after settling on Hyjal, he pours a vial into the lake atop the mountain, making a new Well. He is sentenced to spend his life in jail, with Maiev as his warden.

    -Demons weren't all destroyed/sucked into the Well. The War of the Satyr took place while Illidan was imprisoned, and other demons found hiding places all over Azeroth.

    -10,000 years pass, the Legion is back at it again. Tyrande frees Illidan, feeling he will be the only one who can really fight them. This is the Third War.

    -To simplify WC3, he found the Skull of Gul'dan, became a demon himself. He was exiled by Malfurion, kind of worked for Kil'jaeden, and fought Arthas. All the while he planned to destroy the Legion.

    -He makes allies with Vashj and Kael'thas, heads to Ouland, takes over Karabor, and enslaved some Broken. During all this, he trained some other elves to be demon hunters, like Vandel and Loramus Thalipedes.

    -Still pretending to work for the Legion, the Black Temple becomes his base of operations, and he trains demon hunters en masse since there are many elves that have been hurt by the Legion. Some Blood Elves become demon hunters as well.

    -During his time on Outland, he enslaved more Broken, assaulted Nathreza with the Demon Hunters, fought Maiev, imprisoned Maiev, imprisoned Magtheridon, took over Hellfire Citadel, employed the work of demons defecting from the Legion, created more Fel Orcs with Magtheridon's blood, and led an assault into Auchindoun. This all happened in a decade or so. Most of these events take place in the Illidan novel.

    -His entire plan on Outland was to find a way to make a portal to Argus, and have his demon hunters destroy the Legion on their base of operations.

    -The events of Burning Crusade happen, and Illidan sends the Demon hunters he trained to Mardum. Illidan is killed. Then Legion happens a decade later.


    So, no, he created the idea of demon hunters entirely, and he did so after the Legion arrived in Azeroth. He also never trained any demon hunters before his imprisonment.

    Not all the Demon hunters in WC3 would be entirely canon, but he did train them shortly after he was released from prison in the Third War.
    Last edited by Destinas; 2020-09-10 at 12:48 AM.
    3 hints to surviving MMO-C forums:
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    2.) If you have a source, there will be people who refuse to believe it
    3.) If you use logic, it will be largely ignored
    btw: Spires of Arak = Arakkoa.

  7. #47
    Mechagnome Kyux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destinas View Post
    Not all the Demon hunters in WC3 would be entirely canon, but he did train them shortly after he was released from prison in the Third War.
    So the playable DH hero then must have been trained after Illidan was release from prison, but before he went to Outland, ie. sometime during the course of the expansion campaign? How did they learn metamorphosis? Where did they get the demon soul from?

    I understand Illidan's story, it's the generic DH I'm interested in. If you think the answer is simply "because gameplay, it's not canon" that's fine. I was wondering if there's a in-universe answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Akhlys View Post
    Once upon a time, boats were full of leaks. Now, our leaks are full of boats.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyux View Post
    So the playable DH hero then must have been trained after Illidan was release from prison, but before he went to Outland, ie. sometime during the course of the expansion campaign? How did they learn metamorphosis? Where did they get the demon soul from?

    I understand Illidan's story, it's the generic DH I'm interested in. If you think the answer is simply "because gameplay, it's not canon" that's fine. I was wondering if there's a in-universe answer.
    Most Illidari were trained during and after the Third War, not too long after he used the Skull of Gul'dan. Most were trained in Black Temple by other demon hunters, which you can actually see on Outland right now on one of the Black Temple's terraces.

    Blood Elves would have exclusively been trained on Outland, since that's when Kael offered some of his elves for the Illidari. Some night elves were first part of the Illidari on Azeroth, if my memory is correct, but the bulk of them were trained on Outland.

    As far as their power, Illidan had the demon hunters basically consume a demon's soul - for Vandel it was a felhound that consumed his son, for others it could be a random demon, or another case of revenge. Then fel runes were inscribed on their bodies by Illidan to basically allow the demon hunters to control their powers, though some get consumed by it. Leotheras had this happen to him in Serpentshrine and the demon hunter in Darkshore lost control as well.

    Metamorphosis is basically just that power let loose. With other demon hunters (and even Illidan himself in Nighthold) they are seen with a shadowy metamorphosis form called "the demon within" or "shadow of (name)" like the aforementioned Leotheras.

    Other powers are gained by consuming demon souls. That's how you get your abilities on Mardum when you start a new demon hunter - you get eye beam by consuming the soul of an Inquisitor, for instance.
    3 hints to surviving MMO-C forums:
    1.) If you have an opinion, someone will say that it is wrong
    2.) If you have a source, there will be people who refuse to believe it
    3.) If you use logic, it will be largely ignored
    btw: Spires of Arak = Arakkoa.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyux View Post
    So the playable DH hero then must have been trained after Illidan was release from prison, but before he went to Outland, ie. sometime during the course of the expansion campaign? How did they learn metamorphosis? Where did they get the demon soul from?

    I understand Illidan's story, it's the generic DH I'm interested in. If you think the answer is simply "because gameplay, it's not canon" that's fine. I was wondering if there's a in-universe answer.
    "The dark oaths and rituals necessary for becoming a demon hunter are frowned on by most of the night elves, so this is likely something they would be very interested in keeping quiet."

    Seems to suggest the job profession has been out there for a while. Ravencrest was supposed to have been a Demon Hunter too since the War of the Ancient (Blizz seems to have goofed and put her in the Demon Hunter starting quest area). She followed Illidan in the War of the Ancients. Theo'whats his name (the old Azshara/Blasted Lands demon hunter) has surely existed since before the BC recruits, otherwise he was a really fast learner with no explanation as to why he ditched the rest of the lot.

    And lets not forget Murkidan who has been around for 10,000 years too!

    Thing to think about, is Illidan didn't slide into the Burning Legion to become a demon hunter, he went over there to learn their magic and secrets... and most likely shared these before getting tossed in the slammer. It is unknown, besides Ravencrest, how many followers, if any, he had back then.

  10. #50
    Pandaren Monk Ardenaso's Avatar
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    speaking of incorporated names, 17 years and they still haven't gotten all of them in WoW - particularly Eldin Sunstrider, Sylvos Windrunner, Baron Perenolde, Mave Whisperwind,Mira Whitemane, Ariel Darkmoon, etc.
    Lightbound Orcs > High Elves

    My Lightbound Orc and Alteraci Human suggestion thread

    Blizzard should realize that Alteraci Humans will fulfill the Young Adult Dystopia Anarchy fantasy for Warcraft

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    That's not really what I'm saying here. Even having the tattoos, lack of eyes, and warglaives didn't automatically confer Demon Hunter status on him in the lore - he was just a Mage (de-powered for the most part due to lack of access to the Well) who had become proficient with Azzinoth's weapons and was relying on the Fel power and Spectral Sight that Sargeras had gifted him with. I'd argue that Illidan didn't *truly* become a Demon Hunter until he consumed the Skull of Gul'dan during the Third War, thereby gaining and codifying the Demon Hunter's signature ability: Metamorphosis.
    I originally I thought this as well that he became a true one when completed his transformation but now I think he was a DH during WotA IMO which is pretty much stated.

    eyes, tattoos and warglaives are enough for me.

    Meta is just an extra bonus.
    Last edited by DemonHunter18; 2020-09-10 at 09:24 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    except she was, she literally was experimenting on prisoners men, women, children, soldier, and civilian,
    to try and make a stronger and stronger plague.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Your not gonna win trying to make this one realize the truth.
    Your have better luck curing Corona with lemon and lime juice

  12. #52
    Immortal Kathranis's Avatar
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    He had a number of fledgling Demon Hunters with him in WC3 according to the Illidan novel, though it doesn't go into great detail. Some were night elves recruited during the Third War (survivors of Legion attacks, like Vandel), others were probably followers of his dating back to the War of the Ancients. Their training began in earnest in Outland.

    You have to remember that in WC3 the heroes weren't alone, they were commanding armies and warbands. Illidan was no exception.

  13. #53
    Warchief Tuor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyux View Post
    Where did the Warcraft 3 Night Elf hero demon hunters come from?

    Had Illidan been training them before he was imprisoned after the Sundering? How could he have because demons were unknown. Was someone else training demon hunters? But why, demons weren't seen for 10,000 years.

    Or had Night Elves been practising this form of lite-fel combat for ages anyway, and then the demons arrived and it proved really handy and they learnt more about demons?
    Prior to the Skull of Guldan Ilidian was just addicted to magic, he practised all sort of diferent types of magic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sluvs View Post
    Wanst it from the skull of guldan?
    After the Skull of Guldan he inherited all of the memories of Guldan, a warlock.

    EDIT:
    It isn't mentioned anywhere in WC3 the existence of any other Demon Hunter.

  14. #54
    Mechagnome Kyux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuor View Post
    EDIT:
    It isn't mentioned anywhere in WC3 the existence of any other Demon Hunter.
    Not in the campaign, no. But in multiplayer maps you can get them as a Night Elf hero. Who trained them and when? That's my question.
    Quote Originally Posted by Akhlys View Post
    Once upon a time, boats were full of leaks. Now, our leaks are full of boats.

  15. #55
    Herald of the Titans Skayth's Avatar
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    The Demon Hunters from Multiplayer are as canon friendly as having a Pit Fiend "neutral" ally. Or A "fire Lord" ally. Basically, all the "heroes" are not "canon," with the exception of a few that come to wow with a proper background.

    But, it wouldnt surprise me if a few night elves "followed" the example of Illidan post his imprisonment and became outcasts to society. (demon hunters were originally one of the classes to be in vanilla, then in BC) Im talking of course about the "Dark Embrace," Telarius Voidstrider. But.. if that just turns out to be another "Demon Hunter trained by lllidan and made its way back to Azeroth before bc" i wouldnt be surprised. But, then again, there are so many retcons to the lore, it doesnt make sense.

  16. #56
    Warchief Tuor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyux View Post
    Not in the campaign, no. But in multiplayer maps you can get them as a Night Elf hero. Who trained them and when? That's my question.
    Those are mostly for gameplay purposes. Another NElf hero is the Druid one, which surprisingly assumes the form of Cenarious, not the one of Malfurian.

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