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  1. #61
    Stood in the Fire
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    Did not read the books, but think the writers are ok, the story in-game is great overall and only got better over the years. Legion is a huge highlight to tie up a lot of characters' storylines the overall Legion story flow and build-up where amazing. However, Warlords of Draenor was a low point in writing for me, the story didn't make sense, and now we having 2 versions of Draenor/Outland in the lore, and most of the story was so boring and didn't go anywhere. And BFA storyline was good for me, I loved all the Jaina Proudmoore storyline and her family, finally finishing the story of Warcraft 3, and it was amazing to see her become the leader of her people! Well, the N’Zoth stuff felt really rushed the story of it was not bad at all, our characters finally mattered in the lore, and it was our actions that set N’Zoth free, or obsession to level our hearth and at the end, it was us, that used that power of the titan's construction to take down N’Zoth

  2. #62
    I believe the writers are inconsistent.

  3. #63
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    No I don’t think there incompetent wow has a lot of good writing rather it be in some quest lines dungeon story’s books ect. I think there incredibly limited on what they can do because of the kind of game wow is and the fact that chained to the devs want to do with the game.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    They are more competent and professional than the armchair writers on this forum, and the franchise is much better in their hands than in the hands of the people in here.

    Plus 90% of the times if someone on MMO-Champion is complaining about the story, they were not paying attention or are just trolling to start some drama (like you dear OP have done in the past).
    Hey, remember that time that a self-important king with anime hair taught a 10,000 year old battle priestess with more combat experience than his entire army combined about the concept of *gasp* patience in battle?

    SUCH DEEP WRITING. SUCH LORE. SUCH CONSISTENT CHARACTERIZATION.

    Look, you can simp for WoW all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that its writing is abysmally bad on its face.

  5. #65
    I dunno, I think it's kind of reductive to say "the writers" which makes this seem like troll bait, but i'll give a serious answer anyway.

    I am so very disinterested in what, for example, Christie Golden brings to the table. Whereas Madeline Roux, much more minor in influence, I feel she writes true to the core of the vision. The crowd favorite Steve "Self Insert" Danuser, he can be hit or miss, He does better at big picture/grand scale narratives, but his characters are often exaggerated cliches extrapolated from other exaggerated cliches. While I and many of us miss the Metzen era, I'm not sure he would be the best lead or even imagination for the high fantasy cosmic adventures we're about to embark on.

    If you can't contextualize which writers you prefer and why, you probably shouldn't have an opinion on the story at all.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    When you yourself write "much books", I wouldn't exactly judge the writings of others. Also, yay, another Overlordd whine thread! You are really on a roll these days kiddo!
    He's talking about lore and characterization inconsistencies, not grammar issues (which WoW has had literally hundreds of examples over 15 years). Don't be a pedantic prick.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2020-09-08 at 06:05 PM. Reason: Received Infraction

  7. #67
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Im mostly talking about things like "Lets reharsh MOP but make it worse in every aspect" kind of decisions.
    "Make it worse in every aspect" is a pretty subjective claim on you part - and, amazingly even to me, BfA has a number of fans who feel it a high-water mark in terms of story if not gameplay. Wouldn't call them a majority, but even still your charge here is far from universal. Legion received a number of accolades from the playerbase as well for great moments in storytelling.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by |Dexter| View Post
    Did not read the books, but think the writers are ok, the story in-game is great overall and only got better over the years. Legion is a huge highlight to tie up a lot of characters' storylines the overall Legion story flow and build-up where amazing. However, Warlords of Draenor was a low point in writing for me, the story didn't make sense, and now we having 2 versions of Draenor/Outland in the lore, and most of the story was so boring and didn't go anywhere. And BFA storyline was good for me, I loved all the Jaina Proudmoore storyline and her family, finally finishing the story of Warcraft 3, and it was amazing to see her become the leader of her people! Well, the N’Zoth stuff felt really rushed the story of it was not bad at all, our characters finally mattered in the lore, and it was our actions that set N’Zoth free, or obsession to level our hearth and at the end, it was us, that used that power of the titan's construction to take down N’Zoth
    Heroes indvertantly being responsible for setting the villain free is one of the tropeiest tropes to ever trope. I feel that one must be very young or have very low standards of fantasy writing to be impressed by something that has popped up in virtually every fantasy franchise since Tolkein's era.

  9. #69
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldielocks View Post
    Speaking of marketing, if you look at Amazon and other places, it still is being marketed as definitive. I really don’t know what’s going on but it smells like bullshit. They want the sales but not the implications of what “definitive” would bring.
    Amazon probably doesn't really care how Blizzard uses or treats Chronicle in terms of their game's lore, they just use whatever marketing blurb was sent to them and they've not had cause or care to update or otherwise change it.

    And, insofar as that goes, it is still definitive - the most definitive resource material WoW has ever had, even if it isn't necessarily protected from or otherwise guaranteed against future retcons.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    "Make it worse in every aspect" is a pretty subjective claim on you part - and, amazingly even to me, BfA has a number of fans who feel it a high-water mark in terms of story if not gameplay. Wouldn't call them a majority, but even still your charge here is far from universal. Legion received a number of accolades from the playerbase as well for great moments in storytelling.
    Accolades? What accolades? A few people enjoying something does not constitute accolades. Christ, there are people out there who love every single movie in the Transformers franchise. That doesn't magically validate the shit-tier level of writing in those movies; rather, it simply reflects a static reality that some people will always have terrible taste and/or an inability to critically think about whatever keys might be jingled in front of them in a given moment.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Lobosan View Post
    Hey, remember that time that a self-important king with anime hair taught a 10,000 year old battle priestess with more combat experience than his entire army combined about the concept of *gasp* patience in battle?

    SUCH DEEP WRITING. SUCH LORE. SUCH CONSISTENT CHARACTERIZATION.

    Look, you can simp for WoW all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that its writing is abysmally bad on its face.
    Combat experience means nothing when you've spent 10k years doing nothing in peace time. Meanwhile Varian has been in war all his life. He even said in Legion cinematic that he lived by the sword for the entirety of his life. He is grizzled, while 10k years of peace and immortality made the night elves weak and complacent.

    Besides Tyrande has never been known for her patience. I've never read the War of the Ancients trilogy, so maybe something is different there, but in WC3 she was absolutely hot-headed and did not have patience. She refused to believe there could be cooperation with the Alliance and Horde until the very end, when she had no other choice because Archimonde and his army were making their way to World Tree.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-09-08 at 06:12 PM.
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  12. #72
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobosan View Post
    Accolades? What accolades? A few people enjoying something does not constitute accolades. Christ, there are people out there who love every single movie in the Transformers franchise. That doesn't magically validate the shit-tier level of writing in those movies; rather, it simply reflects a static reality that some people will always have terrible taste and/or an inability to critically think about whatever keys might be jingled in front of them in a given moment.
    It's a lot more than "a few," and accolades in general just being saying that they enjoyed it, liked the story, etc. etc. Beyond casting judgment on people liking what I might consider dreck, that doesn't change the fact that Legion was received very positively and more people enjoyed it than had issues with it. *You* may not have liked it, but you would be in the minority in that particular case, terrible taste or no. I mean I don't like the Twlight series or Fifty Shades of Gray, but I can't deny both series are very popular and a lot of people don't give a shit if I find them trite or amateurish. It's just not about me.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  13. #73
    Given the opportunity I would challenge Danuser to a Writer’s Mok’Gora and perform a 1-shot combo.

  14. #74
    I think the writing has gotten consistently worse over the years. They retconned WAY too much. I don't mind the odd thing here and there to make a great epic idea/story work; but they just do it too often. And when they retcon what is supposed to be definitive? Nope, sorry, they've lost their integrity as writers. Their writing is also pretty darn lazy a lot of time.

    I say this, and yet, sometimes people over bitch about some of the little retcon stuff or stuff that isn't actually retconned, it's just not how they imagined the details really went. But in general ya, the writing is pretty amateur these days; it's maybe highschool level quality at best. But hey who knows, maybe that's really what they were aiming for given their audience/financial goals? Not sure.

  15. #75
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobosan View Post
    Hey, remember that time that a self-important king with anime hair taught a 10,000 year old battle priestess with more combat experience than his entire army combined about the concept of *gasp* patience in battle?

    SUCH DEEP WRITING. SUCH LORE. SUCH CONSISTENT CHARACTERIZATION.

    Look, you can simp for WoW all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that its writing is abysmally bad on its face.
    I mean while stupid that is actually a good example of them sticking to there lore and tyranda’S character. She’s the same hot head who murdered abunch of wardens to free illidan and the same tactical dunce who destroyed a bridge while standing on it.

    It’s always been clear that her age didn’t bring her any wisdom.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    It's a lot more than "a few," and accolades in general just being saying that they enjoyed it, liked the story, etc. etc. Beyond casting judgment on people liking what I might consider dreck, that doesn't change the fact that Legion was received very positively and more people enjoyed it than had issues with it. *You* may not have liked it, but you would be in the minority in that particular case, terrible taste or no. I mean I don't like the Twlight series or Fifty Shades of Gray, but I can't deny both series are very popular and a lot of people don't give a shit if I find them trite or amateurish. It's just not about me.
    Going from "accolades" to "they enjoyed it" is some serious goalpost moving.

  17. #77
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Going from "accolades" to "they enjoyed it" is some serious goalpost moving.
    Is it? I'd call people praising it an "accolade," but if you want to downgrade that to "it was generally positively received by the majority of players" we can do that instead. I think the meaning was pretty obvious and stated clearly enough.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  18. #78
    WoW's story has been very hit or miss for me.

    I haven't tended to enjoy the 'big picture' story since the end of MOP, and even then there were some things like how Deathwing was portrayed or 'there must always be a lich king' that I didn't care for. I didn't really care about Illidan in Legion, I felt they overcompensated for BC. I didn't care about the war story in BFA. But some of the smaller stories along the way I really like. I loved Runas the Shamed and Velen's story in Legion. I liked a lot of the internal Kul'tiras story in BFA. I hated the time travel plot in WOD but some of the individual zone stories were good, it made me actualy like the Arrakoa which is no small feat because I couldn't stand them in BC for example.

    I don't expect I'll much care for the overall Shadowlands story, but there will probably be some smaller stories along the way that are more engaging than the macro plot.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    I mean while stupid that is actually a good example of them sticking to there lore and tyranda’S character. She’s the same hot head who murdered abunch of wardens to free illidan and the same tactical dunce who destroyed a bridge while standing on it.

    It’s always been clear that her age didn’t bring her any wisdom.
    Killing the wardens was justified, they were given an opportunity to stand down and Illidan was a legitimate necessity. You don't keep your biggest gun in the holster in the middle of a war. Tyrande was also a tactical leader of the Nelfs for millenia and managed to keep them safe for a damned long time. The bridge thing....yeah that was dumb and inconsisten, but that proves my point.

    Another perfect example: how about us being all buddy buddy with Grom because after he spent an entire war campaign trying to murder us and committing mass genocide, he decides he hates demons a bunch and that makes us his friends?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Combat experience means nothing when you've spent 10k years doing nothing in peace time. Meanwhile Varian has been in war all his life. He even said in Legion cinematic that he lived by the sword for the entirety of his life. He is grizzled, while 10k years of peace and immortality made the night elves weak and complacent.

    Besides Tyrande has never been known for her patience. I've never read the War of the Ancients trilogy, so maybe something is different there, but in WC3 she was absolutely hot-headed and did not have patience. She refused to believe there could be cooperation with the Alliance and Horde until the very end, when she had no other choice because Archimonde and his army were making their way to World Tree.
    Not sure where you're getting 10k years of peace from. There are references to numerous wars fought during that time period which involved the Nelfs.

    And it's not so much that "Tyrande is impatient" as the ridiculously inconsistent characterization of Varian in that case, who as you may recall was derisively referred to as "King Chin" for being little more than an anime hothead trope who tried on multiple occasions to start shit with Horde leaders out of nothing more than petty spite. All of which was insta-retconned when Blizzard decided he needed to teach a woman her place or whatever weird misogyny motivated that terrible bit of "story".

    Also there are hundreds of other examples of inconsistencies both small and large in this game's writing, from the completely cringe-inducing "the legion transcends all realties and also has spaceships" (which breaks half the lore the game is predicated on, as they would hardly need to corrupt powerful casters and be summoned somewhere if they could just warp speed to a planet all along) to the obnoxious number of times we're forced to hate one another in completely senseless faction wars that come right on the heels of a united inter-faction effort to thwart a greater evil.
    Last edited by Lobosan; 2020-09-08 at 06:33 PM.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Lobosan View Post
    Killing the wardens was justified, they were given an opportunity to stand down and Illidan was a legitimate necessity. You don't keep your biggest gun in the holster in the middle of a war. Tyrande was also a tactical leader of the Nelfs for millenia and managed to keep them safe for a damned long time. The bridge thing....yeah that was dumb and inconsisten, but that proves my point.

    Another perfect example: how about us being all buddy buddy with Grom because after he spent an entire war campaign trying to murder us and committing mass genocide, he decides he hates demons a bunch and that makes us his friends?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Not sure where you're getting 10k years of peace from. There are references to numerous wars fought during that time period which involved the Nelfs.

    And it's not so much that "Tyrande is impatient" as the ridiculously inconsistent characterization of Varian in that case, who as you may recall was derisively referred to as "King Chin" for being little more than an anime hothead trope who tried on multiple occasions to start shit with Horde leaders out of nothing more than petty spite.
    The night elves were involved only in the War of the Satyr and the War of the Shifting Sands during the Long Vigil, and Tyrande personally fought only in the first conflict.

    "King Chin" was just a funny nickname made because he had a larger chin compared to other Human NPCs due to his unique model. There wasn't anything deeper.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-09-08 at 06:38 PM.
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