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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Omedon View Post
    Boom, covenant intended as conceptual identity choice, as I've always said. And there it is. If your character doesn't have a strong enough identity, that's not Blizz's problem. Thank you.
    What's blizz's problem though is making some abilities fun, while the thematics of said covenant not matching at all your character's strong identity.

    I play a blood elf warlock, and I would love to play Venthyr covenant for the aesthetics, I think a blood elf with vampire aesthetics would look badass. But unlucky for me, because Necrolords is the only covenant with an ability that has interactions with both destruction and affliction that are FUN. For destro it opens the way for a single target/cleave fire based build instead of chaos bolt focused, and also gives them a strong aoe kit for m+.

    Meanwhile, Affliction becomes an execute niche class that is at least on par with warrior execute-dmg wise, with priority dmg on main target due to multi dotting. The other 3 covenants provide no interesting gameplay, and are just boring 'press every X amount of time to do a bit of dmg' with 0 interactions with talent builds or spells aside from Malefic Rapture (even that is tiny as fuck).

    But I don't think that my character fits the necrolords theme. So for the first time ever, I have to pick either LOOKS, or FUN gameplay, while I could pick both previous expansions, if you can't see the problem with this, then you are in the wrong 100%.

    And no, it is not a meaningful choice if you have to pick glamour or fun in gameplay. It's like playing an RPG, and being told that you can either pick a fiery glow for your sword, and then throw oil at the enemies, then the fiery glowy sword's swing generating sparks that can interact with the oil and ignite the enemy, burning them, or picking a silver sword, that gives you a flat damage increase, but has 0 interactions with anything. They both deal the same damage (if we go by blizz's ideal universe where they will somehow balance all covenants), but the fiery glowy sword is a lot more fun to play with. So like you don't want to go for the extravagant look of a fiery sword, but due to that, you get completely gimped, and your sword is just made of a different metal, which has 0 interactions with your gameplay. This is what covenants are like for warlocks.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Solry View Post
    So your choice is not meaningful if you have the option to change your mind? Sticking to the thing you like even when presented with other options is not meaningful? Sorry to break it to you, but then anything you ever did in your life choice-wise is not meaningful by that logic.
    That's not what I said. You know you don't have an argument when you have to twist or make up things to support your case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Araxie View Post
    I absolutely do as well. I'm excited that they're sticking to their guns, but also wanting to correct their weak points that people have issues with, without sacrificing their initial vision that is.
    I don't know, maybe they could then fix the covenant abilities that people have been giving feedback on throughout the entire alpha/beta, and are still broken or super underwhelming/unfun? It's bullshit until it happens. It all just feels like a massive PR bubble.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Lulbalance View Post
    This will 100% turn into 'what cov are you?' when pugging.
    No it won't. I have only ever been asked if I have done content before in over 15 years of wow. Never had to link legendaries, prove corruptions, prove esscences, tell them my neck or artifact level, or told them how.much gold I have. I have a guild but I do pug on alts and covenants will never be an issue for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    No it won't. I have only ever been asked if I have done content before in over 15 years of wow. Never had to link legendaries, prove corruptions, prove esscences, tell them my neck or artifact level, or told them how.much gold I have. I have a guild but I do pug on alts and covenants will never be an issue for me.
    "This never happens to me, so it can't happen to anybody else ever."

    Man, if only the world really was this simple.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Covenants not being a trivial switch like talents is what will keep it sane.

    There is one thing to ask for specific spec, as you can switch it immediately, but whole another deal covenant. That's why M+ runs that need a rogue, druid or any other class - will first and foremost try to get said class.

    The only case where I see this covenant scrutiny be a thing is a bleeding edge PvE or PvP where every % counts. Not for your shitty weekly +10/15, where you just need a rogue to press shroud or healer to heal and anything more than that is just a bonus.
    mmmh I really think that it will make it worse than it currently is. There are 50 DPS in the waiting list for 3 DPS spots when you create a group in the M+15-20 keys. If you don't have the right covenant for your class, good luck.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by glszino View Post
    mmmh I really think that it will make it worse than it currently is. There are 50 DPS in the waiting list for 3 DPS spots when you create a group in the M+15-20 keys. If you don't have the right covenant for your class, good luck.
    Looks like 47 dps are leaving disappointed no matter what.

    And raider.io experience is going to be a much bigger deal. Or trying for a dungeon interaction covanents that may not be what is “best” for a given spec.

    Or maybe some buff consideration since Blizz is making a bigger distinction between real class buffs and professions.

    And having a lot of things to think about when building a group in an RPG you would think would be a good thing? When you only worry about dps or specific immunity utility you get even more pigeonholed. Like right now that despite having all this choice with no covanents being non-DH/rogue/hunter/mage is a big no go.

    Why worry about what others bring when you know nothing will be significant?
    Last edited by Argorwal; 2020-09-11 at 03:33 AM.

  8. #208
    Stood in the Fire sylenna's Avatar
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    never have i ever read more clarifications and explanations about upcoming features whilst also addressing controversies about things like player agency, bring the covenant not the player or meaningfulness of a system choice.

    after seeing them tinker corruption into so very strange shapes i have little faith that the influx of millions of live players bodes well for the covenant system on release. only time will tell.

  9. #209
    Well I guess we found the thing someone at Blizzard is so attached to that they will not listen to reason on. Seems every expansion has them and then after it causes the mess players warned them about they either spend all expansion trying to fix it or they just bury their heads in the sand and ignore it. Either way in two years we end in the same spot, them saying it wasn't very good and apologizing for it.

    For the first time since Vanilla I think I'll just wait. I've seen this happen way too many times before ( and seems to be the norm with this Dev group ).

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuciek View Post
    You get mats for crafting legendaries from Thorgast.
    Yes, and you can wear ONE of them at a time. WoW. Once you finish one, kkthxbye (apart from minmaxers=0,1% of playerbase).

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Bisque View Post
    The key is the casual players, if the casual players complain, start to flood the forums post SL launch with: I can't get into X group activity because they want me to go Necrolord but I really like Night Fae ( or whatever covenant) then I can guarantee blizz will change their stance on covenant swapping. To most casual players, outside players, the covenant issue seems like a "1%" type problem a " min maxer, min/maxing the fun out of the game" -whether that is true or not, I don't know, I don't have beta access.

    We will see post launch if this is a 1% of the player type issue or it affects everyone, and if it does negatively affect the casual player base and that player base is vocal then I am pretty sure blizz will make change
    True casual players aren't doing content where players form their own groups manually, so no, they won't feel it, and they will be content with covenants as is. So long as queue times are reasonable, expect no complaints from the casual majority.

    No matter what anyone says, PUGing M+ is not a casual activity. If you are raiding above LFR or dungeoning above heroic, congratulations, you've graduated from the conventional casual definition, especially if you're PUGing it.
    Last edited by Omedon; 2020-09-13 at 08:58 PM.

  12. #212
    9.1 : "ok guys we should have listened to covenant feedback, we gonna fix it but its going to cost a lot of content"

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