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  1. #61
    I actually kinda liked recuperate. It was never very strong, but it was reliable enough and complemented a hit and run playstyle. Kinda weird that they went with SnD over that.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Craaazyyy View Post
    its a good change, i like it.. adds a tad bit of complexity that lots of classes desperately need these days
    maintenance buff... so complex... so fun
    "I'm Tru @ w/e I do" ~ TM

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    Waheyyy because "Fury Warrior But Fast" is such an interesting spec idea
    Because Axes being allowed in Wrath was what got me to level a Rogue and I loved every second of Having Dual Axes and the fluidity and speed of the class, Because Warrior or any other hybrid should never be able to do a better job than a Pure DPS in any of it's specs. Other wise there is no point to a Pure DPS class, and I loved Combat playstyle, but the second they killed Fast OH weapons I have not touched my Rogue since.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by tru View Post
    maintenance buff... so complex... so fun
    well dots are also basically maintenance buffs(or debuffs).. lets just remove rupture

    what it does it adds another thing you have to worry about, maybe in PVE it's not that big of a deal cuz the duration is so long, but even then at some point you will need to refresh it instead of using something else, which add, as i said, a tad bit of complexity..

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    Good Now they can just kill off the dumbass pirate spec and just bring back proper Combat with talents for specific weapon types.
    Scrap the gun too while they are at it.

  6. #66
    I can't stand abilities like this, savage roar, inquisition etc. they're so aggravating, it's pseudo complexity

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Craaazyyy View Post
    well dots are also basically maintenance buffs(or debuffs).. lets just remove rupture

    what it does it adds another thing you have to worry about, maybe in PVE it's not that big of a deal cuz the duration is so long, but even then at some point you will need to refresh it instead of using something else, which add, as i said, a tad bit of complexity..
    I think nearly every single spec in the game needs a bit more to it. The fact I can learn any spec in an afternoon as an experienced WoW player is a problem.

    Classes need more high end ceiling potential. I dunno if recasting slice n dice is so ground breaking it will separate the men from the boys.

    Sure it will point out a few more bad rogues on the charts, but i'd like to think people are better than that and capable of more when encouraged to step outside their comfort zones.

    And blizzard are capable of bringing new talents or skills (new talents what madness do i speak?!) that could change and enhance game play in more meaningful ways if they put in the effort/got better backing from greedy company corporate structure.
    Last edited by Volatilis; 2020-09-15 at 12:23 AM.
    Comes a time when we all gotta die...even kings.

  8. #68
    Loving the return of slice and dice.

    It really makes outlaw and sub play a fair bit smoother.

    Also for the complexity argument, I don't know how complex classes need to really feel engaging. I've been doing rotations for so many years now pretty 12 buttons or 3 buttons almost feels like the same thing

    One more thing, outlaw currently will be one of the more complex specs to roll into the game
    You've got slice and dice to manage, roll the bones to manage, you've got your combo points that you don't want to over cap, interactions with roll the bones, you'll wanting to be pressing blade flurry when ever its up, you'll want to between the eyes when ever its up and you'll more than likely be holding cooldowns until red buff

    This is more than likely the most complex combat rogues will have ever have been - it's pretty much going to be like MoP but with between the eyes and bones rolling

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Craaazyyy View Post
    well dots are also basically maintenance buffs(or debuffs).. lets just remove rupture

    what it does it adds another thing you have to worry about, maybe in PVE it's not that big of a deal cuz the duration is so long, but even then at some point you will need to refresh it instead of using something else, which add, as i said, a tad bit of complexity..
    Dots are actively damaging abilites though, not maintenance. You can tab to a secondary target and throw rupture on it and go back to your main target and that secondary target will be actively taking damage from that ability. SnD is maintenance because all it does is make your already hitting autoattacks (the most passive damage source in the game bar thorns-type damage) better.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Craaazyyy View Post
    well dots are also basically maintenance buffs(or debuffs).. lets just remove rupture

    what it does it adds another thing you have to worry about, maybe in PVE it's not that big of a deal cuz the duration is so long, but even then at some point you will need to refresh it instead of using something else, which add, as i said, a tad bit of complexity..
    Except they are usually not. That is the whole point and issue about SnD being added to assassination. Dots give energy, essentially helping your gameplay be better. SnD for combat does the same through combat potency, and even for sub with free CP that you get faster because of it. For assassination its just a tax that makes your gameplay strictly worse and adds ramp up time to already ramp up spec. Maybe people dont understand... SnD no longer boosts your energy regen, it just increases your attack speed. Other specs have gameplay benefits from it, assassination does not and instead it hurts your gameplay.

    Some time ago they were removing all such buffs/debuffs that do absolutely nothing but adding maintenance checks. Either buffs/debuffs were changed to help with gameplay (like dots giving energy and such) or were removed.

    Adding it back makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Whats even more baffling is how they made it stronger for assassination by adding 20% more attack speed to it. That is even more stupid, as it makes it even more mandatory, while being strictly worse gameplay. It could be 200% attack speed boost and it would be terrible design and terrible addition to assassination. Without some kind of passive that benefits from attack speed to help gameplay, like combat potency, or some kind of energy regen boost added to it, it is 100% a terrible move to add it to assassination, a blatant fun tax.

    20% more attack speed is such a lazy attempt to make it seem better. They just couldnt bother with coming up with something actually good and/or useful for the spec. Every x attacks on same target you get short duration energy regen boost, or every x attacks your bleeds instantly tick with bonus damage tick, giving you more energy out of it etc. A lot could have been done to make it good... they chose the worst possible option that makes spec strictly worse to play.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by genaian View Post
    20% more attack speed is such a lazy attempt to make it seem better. They just couldnt bother with coming up with something actually good and/or useful for the spec.
    Did you really expect better from the people that literally did 0 changes to rogues at all about anything for 2 months while we had 2 missing talents? As usual best that rogues can hope for is 9.1 or 9.2 to bandaid it. Meanwhile they made a change to unholy dk's that dk's didn't like and got a reply about it and it change reverted in less than 12 hours lol.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    Good Now they can just kill off the dumbass pirate spec and just bring back proper Combat with talents for specific weapon types.
    Agreed.
    Actually, I didn't mind Outlaw except for the RNG of RTB. The RNG element was garbage.
    That said, I always loved old combat with SnD.
    Happy to see it coming back.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    Good Now they can just kill off the dumbass pirate spec and just bring back proper Combat with talents for specific weapon types.
    na,the pirate theme and mecanics are a lot better than old combat,spaming sinister strike and a finisher wasnt all that interesting

  14. #74
    Give SnD an active damage component and it should feel much better.

    It goes against the proper feel of a combo attack, its the kind of thing you want up before you engage, it feels stupid to build up a buff like that, and its a static boring buff: more attack speed.

    It doesnt interact with the class in any other way other than just being more stats. I dont want it back, but if we do get it back they need to change it. Its old iteration was boring.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodmoth13 View Post
    Give SnD an active damage component and it should feel much better.

    It goes against the proper feel of a combo attack, its the kind of thing you want up before you engage, it feels stupid to build up a buff like that, and its a static boring buff: more attack speed.

    It doesnt interact with the class in any other way other than just being more stats. I dont want it back, but if we do get it back they need to change it. Its old iteration was boring.
    It does interact with the class -- it causes you to generate more resources (Outlaw and Sub). Even with Assassination you get more poison procs in your Envenom window while SnD is active.

    If you can't feel the difference in your attack speed while SnD is active, I don't know what to tell you. The slower attack speed has felt awful since it got pruned. The slower resource generation without it has felt even worse.

    Easy fix to make it more interactive for Assassination would be to tie energy regeneration to poison procs rather than bleeds.

    An up front damage component would be stupid and defeat the purpose which is planning ahead. Rogue class is getting ruined though by impatient, instant gratification DK/Hunter rerollers.
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

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  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    na,the pirate theme and mecanics are a lot better than old combat,spaming sinister strike and a finisher wasnt all that interesting
    But it was fun, I love easy rotations that don't require me to press a specific button at the 100% perfect time to be the best I can. I loved 1 button macro BM back in BC and didn't touch my hunter after that until they made Melee Survival. I loved how fluid and easy rotations were not priority systems. Blood DK DPS was amazing and the rotation was equally easy and fun. I loved Combat just spam Sinister Strike and a finisher back when things were easy and fun.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    But it was fun, I love easy rotations that don't require me to press a specific button at the 100% perfect time to be the best I can. I loved 1 button macro BM back in BC and didn't touch my hunter after that until they made Melee Survival. I loved how fluid and easy rotations were not priority systems. Blood DK DPS was amazing and the rotation was equally easy and fun. I loved Combat just spam Sinister Strike and a finisher back when things were easy and fun.
    wait what?you like easy fluid rotatons...so you...started playing survival hunter?one of the more complex specs in the game?ok

  18. #78
    One thing people should consider with windfury totem being back things like slice n' dice are going to also provide more damage from white hits so having a lot of attack speed is going to add up. The new version gives everyone a 10% chance to do an additional attack with every hit.

    I will say OP I always enjoyed slice n' dice and kinda missed it. I much prefer it to the garbage that is roll the bones as an upkeep.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

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  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    wait what?you like easy fluid rotatons...so you...started playing survival hunter?one of the more complex specs in the game?ok
    Seemed easy enough in BFA. By play I mean I leveled him to max level and let him sit until Next Xpac.

  20. #80
    Sub plays better with SND it actually feels good to not lose CPs and use CPs on SND in anticipation of what is to come ahead even just doing basic leveling. The fact that SND is a bonus for Sub flow is the cherry on top. Same for Outlaw as the specs finally feel like they took off the shackles and actually can play like they are meant to be played.
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

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