Slice and Dice back seems like 3 steps backward

[Dastreus]

For me at least its not about difficulty, cause refreshing a buff isn't difficult. It has a couple of different problems.

1. It doesn't feel fun to spend combo points on a maintenance buff. Maintenance buffs are by definition not directly impactful so pressing them doesn't feel good. They also eat into the amount of Eviscerates/ Envenoms I can do so they basically make me press my juicy buttons less often.

2. It's very constraining in PVP. There's much more target switching and CC in PVP so having to go through two cycles of building up combo points and spending them on maintenance every time is more annoying, especially because you might get CC'd and then never get your juicy payoff eviscerate or kidney shot.

3. A bunch of your damage is tied up into SND so all your other abilities are less impactful. Every button you press does less than it would if S&D didn't exist.

Given those facts I'd prefer no slice and dice.

This right here succinctly puts my issue with SnD as well. Rupture was fine because you could see the damage as a dot.

[mojusk]

i dont dislike SnD because its too difficult for me to refresh it every 36 secs, i dislike it because its booring.

i agree that assassin did need a little more spice. personally i wouldve liked something like blindside as baseline.

[Kaver]

This right here succinctly puts my issue with SnD as well. Rupture was fine because you could see the damage as a dot.

Also, for assa Rupture has interesting synergy with multitarget situation as you can increase you energy regeneration based on the number of targets you put rupture on. This is interesting gameplay. SnD offers none of this. Rupture also make it possible for the Rogue to do damage during down time.

SnD is basically = We have taken damage away from the baseline of the spec and made it into a buff.

But it has no impact on the actual gameplay based on the current versions of the Rogue.

[shoegazing]

Cause Blizzard only listens to the ones crying the most.

The unpruning works theoretically, but in practice it's just been a blanket restore of old skills without actually checking their impact on gameplay. Different classes/specs play differently and have different needs.

The only clear thing to me is that class deisgners don't actually play the classes, in ANY environment.

The fact you glorify Sub PvP as the pinnacle of the rogue class is just hilarious. Makes any of your argument automatically lose points because it's just clear you refuse to accept anything that's not about that topic.

EDIT: SnD is a fine ability. I find it boring to use in any scenario. Won't kill myself about using it or not when needed. It's just part of the game now so either we accept it or play another class or entire game. It's not like things will change.

And baseline: no one's absolutely right. Everyone plays for their own reasons.

I "glorify Sub PvP as the pinnacle of the Rogue class" and yet I'm playing combat daggers in classic and doing exclusively PvE

Please, make more lazy and misguided assumptions about how I play the game

[Aleksej89]

I am not a fan of Slice n Dice type of abilities but for some reason i always liked Slice n Dice specifically.

Assuming it lasts like 40+ seconds i won't mind it.

[shoegazing]

I am not a fan of Slice n Dice type of abilities but for some reason i always liked Slice n Dice specifically.

Assuming it lasts like 40+ seconds i won't mind it.

Be careful, if you have an opinion about what constitutes the traditional class flavor for Rogues, you might provoke the ire of those who see the game design as nothing more than a dps rotation.

Personally I love SnD. I love the sound, the animation, the icon, and feeling/hearing/seeing faster white attacks on my screen once I've activated it. Makes me feel like I am playing a Rogue not a DH or DK.

[ymirsson]

Be careful, if you have an opinion about what constitutes the traditional class flavor for Rogues, you might provoke the ire of those who see the game design as nothing more than a dps rotation.

Personally I love SnD. I love the sound, the animation, the icon, and feeling/hearing/seeing faster white attacks on my screen once I've activated it. Makes me feel like I am playing a Rogue not a DH or DK.

But do you like the smell?

[prwraith]

Legit slice n dice made me stop playing my rogue :/ I hate it, feels so out of place.

Also combat is dead stop whining, outlaw is here. Honestly rogues complain more than survival hunters

[ymirsson]

Legit slice n dice made me stop playing my rogue :/ I hate it, feels so out of place.

Also combat is dead stop whining, outlaw is here. Honestly rogues complain more than survival hunters

Thanks for your informed opinion.

[prwraith]

Thanks for your informed opinion.

I'm sure you find yourself very amusing. Thank you for the sarcasm.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I’m personally loving having it back my interest in rouges went down a ton when they took it away at the end of cata from assassin then died all together when sub was butchered in legion and combat had to take it as a talent.

[Kaver]

Be careful, if you have an opinion about what constitutes the traditional class flavor for Rogues, you might provoke the ire of those who see the game design as nothing more than a dps rotation.

I really don't understand why you feel the need to be like this..

We are not disputing your opinion about traditional Rogue flavor. We are just saying that SnD doesn't match with the current gameplay of the Rogue specs in PVE. And that's not our fault. Blizzard have designed it like that. I don't understand why you give us shit for pointing out the the current design is a mess of contradictory design philosophies. You seems to keep blaming other Rogue players for Blizzard fucking up your favorite spec. I understand that you want to go back to the good old days but why should people who currently enjoy Rogue be punished because of Blizzards mistakes. There is no need for you to act condescending towards other people in this topic. Blizzard are to blame for messing up your life not us.

[Eazy]

Be careful, if you have an opinion about what constitutes the traditional class flavor for Rogues, you might provoke the ire of those who see the game design as nothing more than a dps rotation.

Personally I love SnD. I love the sound, the animation, the icon, and feeling/hearing/seeing faster white attacks on my screen once I've activated it. Makes me feel like I am playing a Rogue not a DH or DK.

Yes, because I feel like a real rogue when I suddenly start to attack my opponent faster with my white attacks... This is getting ridiculous.
That may be true for classic or the pre-WoD rogues, right now with the amount of abilities and additional borrowed powers it's just boring.

If it's a totally personal thing(and it is), then seriously stop trying to add a false ideology around it, saying it's an ability that hugely increase the skill-cap() or that it's true rogue thing to do. I respect your opinion, but saying such a bullshit because you loved how the spec worked in the previous expansions is just wrong and seem like a personal problem.
Kingsbane was awesome ability, even Exanguinate made much more sense. There are plenty of other, more exciting and more roguish ideas that could be implemented instead of that outdated, no-brainer ability.

[Saltysquidoon]

OLD GUD NU BAD (except when old is different from how I remember it).
More buttons = more depth no exceptions.
How dare you expect blizzard to iterate on base class design once every two years, that's what recycled legendaries and borrowed power is for.
I actually like having two spells that are functionally identical in single-target situations.
King's bane? Never heard of it, please stop bringing it up actual class design makes me feel bad.

[Clash the DK]

My problem with Slice and Dice is that between that and Rupture I don't get to use Eviscerate/Envenom nearly often enough. And that feels bad.
Personally, I would rather remove Rupture than Slice and Dice. That feels more like Feral gameplay IMO.
For Sub, S&D feels alright because it's such a large increase. With a maintenance buff, that's the way it should be. So that 20% crap for the other specs is suspect.

[Feril]

Slice and Dice doesn't even have a rewarding animation, just a lifeless half-hearted "punch" and a sound that doesn't convey what the animation tried and failed to do.

Slice and Dice would work better as just an after-effect of other, real finishers (kind of like the Alacrity talent).

"I have hit you on several key locations and now I'm ready to finish you! AH-HAH! NOW I'M GIVING YOU FASTER PAPERCUTS! THAT'S GOTTA HURT, HUH? RIGHT?"

[shoegazing]

Slice and Dice doesn't even have a rewarding animation, just a lifeless half-hearted "punch" and a sound that doesn't convey what the animation tried and failed to do.

Slice and Dice would work better as just an after-effect of other, real finishers (kind of like the Alacrity talent).

"I have hit you on several key locations and now I'm ready to finish you! AH-HAH! NOW I'M GIVING YOU FASTER PAPERCUTS! THAT'S GOTTA HURT, HUH? RIGHT?"

Who cares? It's a total classic.

Anybody who's played a little bit of WoW should instantly recognize the animation and sound of Slice and Dice.

[Varolyn]

Who cares? It's a total classic.

Anybody who's played a little bit of WoW should instantly recognize the animation and sound of Slice and Dice.

The current sound of SnD definitely is not the same sound as it was in Vanilla all the way through WoD. The current sound effect is far louder and almost sounds like you slash your two blades on to each other. The older sound effect was far more quiet.

[shoegazing]

The current sound of SnD definitely is not the same sound as it was in Vanilla all the way through WoD. The current sound effect is far louder and almost sounds like you slash your two blades on to each other. The older sound effect was far more quiet.

Yet another example of Blizzard fucking with things that shouldn't have been fucked with

[nocturnus]

Good Now they can just kill off the dumbass pirate spec and just bring back proper Combat with talents for specific weapon types.

Oh man, that would be amazing. The whole pirate theme basically turned rogue into a 2 spec class for me.

- - - Updated - - -

Who cares? It's a total classic.

Which doesn't mean it is or ever was any good.