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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by CalamityHeart View Post
    ^ This. WoW has never been this.
    How common have those even been? I think most of the OP's choices have only really shown up in force in the last two decades and there's still plenty of RPGs that don't feature one or more of them. Or any of them, for that matter.

    The last one isn't even correct... we just got that for Sylvanas loyalists.

  2. #22
    Just because you want it to be like LoL doesn't mean that is the genre and i'm glad Blizzard is pissing players like you off, I hope you quit.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by urfaustus View Post
    Just because you want it to be like LoL doesn't mean that is the genre and i'm glad Blizzard is pissing players like you off, I hope you quit.
    I don't want it to be like lol. I'm actually really upset that it is becoming like it.

  4. #24
    I am Murloc! rmfAcc's Avatar
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    Okay, let them add RPG elements then and stop complaining when they do.

    For me, the covenants are very similar to sub-classes, except Blizzard is so nice that they let you change covenant if you really want to. In most MMORPGs they don't allow this kind of stuff. In fact, in most MMORPGs that I've played before WoW they didn't even let you reset your talent (or stat) points.

  5. #25
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    It would have been really cool if covenants didnt have the power element and just had their "utility". Like, its cool choosing between turning into a fox or having the potion.

    I wounder why blizz wants to release something that nobody likes, and everybody has the exact same negative feedback about a very specific problem that this creates.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Solry View Post
    To answer your question - the definition of an RPG. You don't get to play a role, you just play a linear predestined game in WoW. And the point of the post is that the skeleton of WoW - the gameplay- is just glorified quick matches in the end.

    Example - I don't get to support the Foresworn in their fight against the oppressive Kyrian tyrants.

    Maybe you just don't know what makes a game an RPG.

    Your character gains levels and progresses. That is what makes a game an RPG.

    The argument that it's not an RPG because it's linear and predestined is especially incorrect. Every video game is predestined. They have to be because they're computer software. That's absolutely not an argument. The original RPG video games were also more linear than WoW at its most linear, so that argument is weak at best. Even table top RPGs have a linear story as they're presented to players even if they don't behind the scenes. That also applies to video games. "Behind the scenes" is just farther removed given you're playing someone else's game instead of your own.

  7. #27
    I don't post much but read a lot of these threads and this is flabbergasting.
    How isn't WoW an RPG? While it isn't the best 'RPG' for roleplaying storylines but it is one nonetheless. It is a linear story much like games like Final Fantasy, Octopath Traveler, Dragon Quest, and many others. It, however, isn't comparable to the branching story RPGs like Assassins' Creed Odyssey, Witcher 3, Dragon Age, Mass Effect.

    It has both elements from both of those RPG styles. Your character has a story based on the race, faction, and class it is (based on each expansion and the stories that Blizzard writes, whether or not those are good or bad) and your character develops through it. Just like the standard RPG stories but it is your character a bit as it is your own character inside the game. You can make that character however you see fit in the narrative on roleplaying servers.

    Also, League of Legends while being a MOBA has toooons of lore and is technically a RPG on some level.

    TLDR; please learn what a RPG cause WoW has been one since the day it came out.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Breaking news the only RPGs are made by Bioware according to the OP's list of features.
    I thought this too lol.

    So all those final fantasy games I played as a kid on SNES and PlayStation weren’t actually RPGs because they all ended with the same story??

  9. #29
    Elemental Lord
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    It's a bad idea that they will eventually realize it's a bad idea talking about how they learned and change it only to implement a similarly bad idea because they never actually learn anything.

  10. #30
    WoW is a much of an RPG as you want it to be. If you're anxious about your Covenant choice blocking access to your preferred instanced content, well I can't help you there.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Vertegras View Post
    I don't post much but read a lot of these threads and this is flabbergasting.
    How isn't WoW an RPG? While it isn't the best 'RPG' for roleplaying storylines but it is one nonetheless. It is a linear story much like games like Final Fantasy, Octopath Traveler, Dragon Quest, and many others. It, however, isn't comparable to the branching story RPGs like Assassins' Creed Odyssey, Witcher 3, Dragon Age, Mass Effect.

    It has both elements from both of those RPG styles. Your character has a story based on the race, faction, and class it is (based on each expansion and the stories that Blizzard writes, whether or not those are good or bad) and your character develops through it. Just like the standard RPG stories but it is your character a bit as it is your own character inside the game. You can make that character however you see fit in the narrative on roleplaying servers.

    Also, League of Legends while being a MOBA has toooons of lore and is technically a RPG on some level.

    TLDR; please learn what a RPG cause WoW has been one since the day it came out.
    Any thread that goes "WoW isn't an RPG" is arguing in bad faith and just browsing through this thread should show you most people disagree, just about every post in here agrees with you.

    A better question is if the covenant decision is something that fits WoW as a RPG (because clearly not every RPG is the same, this thread proves that much) and while I personally don't think it does it's at least more interesting to talk about than dogpiling a thread with the same kind of post for whatever amount of pages this thread will last for.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Arch-Angel of Riots View Post
    Okay, let them add RPG elements then and stop complaining when they do.

    For me, the covenants are very similar to sub-classes, except Blizzard is so nice that they let you change covenant if you really want to. In most MMORPGs they don't allow this kind of stuff. In fact, in most MMORPGs that I've played before WoW they didn't even let you reset your talent (or stat) points.
    When I last played DAOC during its 1st expansion they finally created respec stones and they were a consumable that dropped from a dragon raid boss.

    Imagine WoW where one of Nzoths drops is a tome to respec lol.

    And RvR talents spent were permanent.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Solry View Post
    A traditional RPG would have cross-faction relations, the ability to work for several factions (to an extent where player is a double-agent that only manipulates those factions pursuing their own personal goal).

    A traditional RPG would have a morality system that would help to represent the player's own personal belief to an extent available within the established world and story. That morality system would also be intertwined with factions directly.

    A traditional RPG would have multiple "endings" depending on choices taken, quest completed, NPC befriended, and so on. That would also be affected by the factions you have interacted with and the way you've interacted with them.
    That disqualifies some of the most well known RPGs out there. Weird. Maybe YOU need to rethink your understanding of an RPG.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by urfaustus View Post
    Just because you want it to be like LoL doesn't mean that is the genre and i'm glad Blizzard is pissing players like you off, I hope you quit.
    Do you mean League of Legends or Lands of Lore?

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by oldgeezer View Post
    WoW is a much of an RPG as you want it to be. If you're anxious about your Covenant choice blocking access to your preferred instanced content, well I can't help you there.
    Sadly the bolded is sort of preventing me from being in any form excited for Shadowlands even though I think the zones look absolutely amazing, the storyline is somewhat interesting, Castle Nathria looks like some Castlevania shit I'm into, Torghast looks good, etc but then Covenants exist and just make me not want to play and it isn't even because I feel I'd be blocked from certain content as I'd join a guild of people I've known for years who aren't gonna decline people because of a non-BiS covenant (which I will pick but it's besides the point).

    The problem is Covenants seemingly just don't allow for any experimentation, make off specs feel like shit again and kind of just pigeonhole you into one thing unless you go through a bunch of mobile game-esque waiting and busywork. I might want to min/max one day with covenant Y but fuck around with covenant X, mess around with the different abilities and such, which IMO is also a big part of certain RPGs, but this system just doesn't allow me to do that. Legion burned me out big time because of it's initial systems and I feel WoW has fundamentally changed into something worse ever since.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    Sadly the bolded is sort of preventing me from being in any form excited for Shadowlands even though I think the zones look absolutely amazing, the storyline is somewhat interesting, Castle Nathria looks like some Castlevania shit I'm into, Torghast looks good, etc but then Covenants exist and just make me not want to play and it isn't even because I feel I'd be blocked from certain content as I'd join a guild of people I've known for years who aren't gonna decline people because of a non-BiS covenant (which I will pick but it's besides the point).
    Well, did you choose your class in every expansion just to not getting blocked by ppl who wanted bis classes for their group?

    By that logic every expansion had classes that were unplayable because they were not top 5 classes.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    the point is moot. if they dont want to change it they wont. its up to players to decide if its enough to make them want to quit.

    and for people who think that constant badgering on social media, reddit and twitch is enough to make them crack, let me ask you this:

    how are the accountwide essences?
    I'm confused by this, considering we did get account wide essences. Sure you need to buy them with currency, but that is super easy compared to actually have to do reps, 30k honor old raids for them, or having to wait weeks on time gated ones.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by ryjkur View Post
    Well, did you choose your class in every expansion just to not getting blocked by ppl who wanted bis classes for their group?

    By that logic every expansion had classes that were unplayable because they were not top 5 classes.
    I'm not anxious about getting blocked because I won't be blocked, which I mentioned but you didn't read probably. I'm anxious it's not gonna be fun to me because the game simply won't allow me to have fun in some cases. Read the entire post.

  19. #39
    I freaking hate this logic:

    "WoW is not an RPG because it doesn't have XY - So lets not add/allow features like XY so it can never-ever become one".
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2020-09-10 at 10:06 PM.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    The problem is Covenants seemingly just don't allow for any experimentation, make off specs feel like shit again and kind of just pigeonhole you into one thing unless you go through a bunch of mobile game-esque waiting and busywork. I might want to min/max one day with covenant Y but fuck around with covenant X, mess around with the different abilities and such, which IMO is also a big part of certain RPGs, but this system just doesn't allow me to do that. Legion burned me out big time because of it's initial systems and I feel WoW has fundamentally changed into something worse ever since.
    PERSONAL OPINION, WARNING - I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum, I will be raiding Mythic and doing my fair share of M+, and I for one wholeheartedly welcome systems that don't allow me to min-max my character for every situation (and the weaknesses that come with it). I think it's becoming tedious to have to change for example your talents, essences, azerite gear and corruption depending on what content you face all the time and I'd much rather prefer to choose my area of excellence and stick to it at least for some time in the future. I think people spewing the "don't do it if you don't want to" bullshit need a reality check and realize that as long as we play the same game no one in their right mind will conciously choose to be sub-optimal when it's very easy to avoid it if they have any intention of progressing their gameplay, and that the only way we're actually going to be given that relief is if it's enforced upon us.

    I think it's completely acceptable to take a performance hit in one area in order to become better at another, even if that means you're performing worse in M+ in order to perform better in raids and vice-versa. In fact I think it's positive, and if someone wants to make two characters in order to excel at two areas simultaneously instead of focusing on one or being decent at both then let them, it's a game after all and not bloody real life. PERSONAL OPINION, WARNING

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