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  1. #41
    Elemental Lord Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solry View Post
    Because it simply is not.
    Let's call Covenants "factions" for now because in hindsight they kinda are.

    A traditional RPG would have cross-faction relations, the ability to work for several factions (to an extent where player is a double-agent that only manipulates those factions pursuing their own personal goal).

    A traditional RPG would have a morality system that would help to represent the player's own personal belief to an extent available within the established world and story. That morality system would also be intertwined with factions directly.

    A traditional RPG would have multiple "endings" depending on choices taken, quest completed, NPC befriended, and so on. That would also be affected by the factions you have interacted with and the way you've interacted with them.

    This "list" would go on, but I hope you got the point.
    The Covenants are an illusion of choice, and it is not meaningful in any way. Because there is no payoff. You will end Shadowlands in a completely linear manner as you have always done with every expansion. You being a "Kyrian Paladin" means nothing in the long run. This is nothing like DA:O, NwN, Fallout NW, and so on.

    Sadly, WoW - is not an RPG, not anymore at least. If you actually look at it skeptically you will notice that modern WoW is nothing but a quick match session-based game. Every type of content you do is repetitive, locked behind an instance. How a mythic+ run is different from, say, Heroes of the Storm quick matches with same, but rotating maps and same, but rotating Heroes participating in a short match session. Or an Arena match? Or a raid night?
    It's people like you who go around saying WoW isn't a RPG and people like you who complain when they try to add RPG elements
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    I freaking hate this logic:

    "WoW is not an RPG because it doesn't have XY - So lets not add/allow features like XY so it can never become one".
    Yep this thread in nutshell, lets hope mods start closing those threads or merge them into one megathread as its getting annoying.

    Meanwhile on official forums cant find a thread about covenants, you know, forum where you need to have sub to post.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Arainie View Post
    PERSONAL OPINION, WARNING - I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum, I will be raiding Mythic and doing my fair share of M+, and I for one wholeheartedly welcome systems that don't allow me to min-max my character for every situation (and the weaknesses that come with it). I think it's becoming tedious to have to change for example your talents, essences, azerite gear and corruption depending on what content you face all the time and I'd much rather prefer to choose my area of excellence and stick to it at least for some time in the future. I think people spewing the "don't do it if you don't want to" bullshit need a reality check and realize that as long as we play the same game no one in their right mind will conciously choose to be sub-optimal when it's very easy to avoid it if they have any intention of progressing their gameplay, and that the only way we're actually going to be given that relief is if it's enforced upon us.

    I think it's completely acceptable to take a performance hit in one area in order to become better at another, even if that means you're performing worse in M+ in order to perform better in raids and vice-versa. In fact I think it's positive, and if someone wants to make two characters in order to excel at two areas simultaneously instead of focusing on one or being decent at both then let them, it's a game after all and not bloody real life. PERSONAL OPINION, WARNING
    I agree with parts of your posts, but I think if Blizzard has to enforce and validate people's choices by making said choices pseudo-permanent/attached to a timesink there's something significantly wrong with the game or the community, or in most cases just both, WoW being one of those.

    Again, I mostly think this convenant thing just hurts experimentation and flexibility but that might be what they're going for. I guess WoW is supposed to be more like an ARPG like PoE where you don't get too attached to your character and just make a new one if the choice you made didn't work out.

  4. #44
    Play the class / specialization / talents / covenant that you enjoy playing.
    If you don't like people telling you that you are playing the game wrong, find better people to play with.
    You have to draw a line somewhere.

    Covenants are not the issue, being spineless is the issue.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by urfaustus View Post
    Just because you want it to be like LoL doesn't mean that is the genre and i'm glad Blizzard is pissing players like you off, I hope you quit.

    Aren't you a delightful person to have a discussion with. What's your other sophisticated go-to response in discourse with people ? Eat shit and die?

    Excellent way to paint yourself as a knob.

    He even answered you in a respectful manner, what a lad.
    Last edited by LazuOG; 2020-09-10 at 11:35 PM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Arainie View Post
    PERSONAL OPINION, WARNING - I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum, I will be raiding Mythic and doing my fair share of M+, and I for one wholeheartedly welcome systems that don't allow me to min-max my character for every situation (and the weaknesses that come with it). I think it's becoming tedious to have to change for example your talents, essences, azerite gear and corruption depending on what content you face all the time and I'd much rather prefer to choose my area of excellence and stick to it at least for some time in the future. I think people spewing the "don't do it if you don't want to" bullshit need a reality check and realize that as long as we play the same game no one in their right mind will conciously choose to be sub-optimal when it's very easy to avoid it if they have any intention of progressing their gameplay, and that the only way we're actually going to be given that relief is if it's enforced upon us.

    I think it's completely acceptable to take a performance hit in one area in order to become better at another, even if that means you're performing worse in M+ in order to perform better in raids and vice-versa. In fact I think it's positive, and if someone wants to make two characters in order to excel at two areas simultaneously instead of focusing on one or being decent at both then let them, it's a game after all and not bloody real life. PERSONAL OPINION, WARNING
    I whole heartily agree with this statement too. I dont think people realize that there are also mythic raiders that would prefer the current system as is. I don't want to have to swap covenants abitlies + conduits/soulbind on top of what we can swap already. And i think the community has blown this argument out of proportion.

  7. #47
    A role playing game is a game where you assume a role that is not your regular everyday one, and play some pretend. The fact that you don't get to tailor every piece of the narrative to your liking is irrelevant.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunblaze View Post
    It would have been really cool if covenants didnt have the power element and just had their "utility". Like, its cool choosing between turning into a fox or having the potion.

    I wounder why blizz wants to release something that nobody likes, and everybody has the exact same negative feedback about a very specific problem that this creates.
    Because they have the actual data and not confirmation bias from a bunch of angry bois who all pat each other on the back on a forum echo chamber?
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  9. #49
    a real rpg would let me not shackle myself to one of these asinine and ill-fitting shit
    Wrath baby and proud of it

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