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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    When you think about it, the concept of an afterlife (or heaven, whatever you want to call it) cheapens the concept of life. It's supposed to be special because it's finite. Existence should be cyclical at best, as the universe wastes nothing, but not this non-sensical afterlife where consciousness can be retained, and there are systems, rules, and even politics apparently, makes it redundant instead of special.
    100% this. Well said.
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  2. #62
    Warchief Sluvs's Avatar
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    This "Final Death" thing is incredibly stupid.

    I really dislike it because it completely destroy the purpose of the afterlife. Mainly Maldraxxus. Imagine being part of the necrolords and condemned into an eternal war that you will inevitably die and disappear into nothingness. Pretty stupid.

    I think their souls should be reincarnated in the Shadowlands and that is it. Maybe make them lose their memories, but this final death thing is just so boring.
    I don't want solutions. I want to be mad. - PoorlyDrawnlines

  3. #63
    Well it is taken straight our current belief in afterlife.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    I literally debunked most of your points 1 post above yours.

    No, afterlife is not only for eternal rest. There's countless popular mythologies which have places for souls that are not yet qualified to be accepted to paradise or however it's called in its respective idea of afterlife. In many of those, entities are required to go through trials of various sorts, or even battle each other (or some monsters) for eternity.

    Sure, it's not exactly the same, because it's a separate original story, but it more or less echoes the real life mythologies in many ways.

    PS. To an extent I do agree that the idea of afterlife cheapens the importance of our lives, but that's a whole another topic. It doesnt' change the fact that even religious people who believe in various forms of life after death still mourn their relatives.
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    This is simply untrue.

    You basically took modern religious afterlives as a basis, most likely the Christian one.

    Take a look at the Norse afterlife, Greek, Roman, Egyptian etc... Not all afterlives are the same, just as not all parts of the Shadowlands are the same.
    The Shadowlands is basically a combination of every possible afterlife there is. The 4 we interact with are not all the options.
    So why would they add a playable afterlife where all is fine, everyone is chilling and there is nothing to do? What would be the point of that actually?

    Doesn't take much thinking to see the difference.

    Did you miss "the popular idea of afterlife" part of that post? Tsk tsk tsk Shadowlands aren't the sterotypical afterlife and that was my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    So why would they add a playable afterlife where all is fine, everyone is chilling and there is nothing to do? What would be the point of that actually?.
    The point would be not to make an expansion based on the afterlife in the first place. Fucking duh

    Safe for maybe Chronicles of Narnia I can't think of any popular property that portrayed the afterlife in a satisfying way.
    Last edited by bagina; 2020-09-11 at 03:01 PM.

  5. #65
    Do the people in this thread realize that the Shadowlands look terrible, awful, and all that.... because the machine of Death has been broken by this expansion's main villain? Meaning that the Shadowlands wouldn't be so bad if the machine upon which it is build was not in ruins, forcing the various covenants to make drastic choices.
    I will tell you what I told my own son when he picked up his first blade and played at being a soldier. Whatever your elders have told you... War is not glory. War is seeing people at their very worst and choosing to protect them anyway.

  6. #66
    I'm not sure why people are pretending some grand mystery has been ruined, when WC2 (25 years ago) showed us that people don't just stop existing when they die, they continue on as spirits with varying degrees of conciousness and agency. The game has been filled with ghosts and undead for decades, how are you just not getting that there's existence after death?

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Do the people in this thread realize that the Shadowlands look terrible, awful, and all that.... because the machine of Death has been broken by this expansion's main villain? Meaning that the Shadowlands wouldn't be so bad if the machine upon which it is build was not in ruins, forcing the various covenants to make drastic choices.
    Maldraxxus was eternal mandatory enlistment before the machine of Death broke.

    Bastion forced people to forget themselves and become true lawful robots before the machine of Death broke.

    And the Maw is, and has always been, hell.

    Only Revendreth and Ardenweald have somewhat positive outlooks, and even then, they pretty much override and disregard the culture and beliefs of those who are sent there.

    Maybe among the other "infinite" realms, there are some decent ones, but the ones we're visiting are pretty bad by default.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulwind View Post
    Maldraxxus was eternal mandatory enlistment before the machine of Death broke.

    Bastion forced people to forget themselves and become true lawful robots before the machine of Death broke.

    And the Maw is, and has always been, hell.

    Only Revendreth and Ardenweald have somewhat positive outlooks, and even then, they pretty much override and disregard the culture and beliefs of those who are sent there.

    Maybe among the other "infinite" realms, there are some decent ones, but the ones we're visiting are pretty bad by default.
    Completely subjective. Several races would certainly enjoy an afterlife of eternal fighting and glory, or an afterlife in which you ascend to purity. That's the purpose of the Arbiter, to send the people who would enjoy these afterlives there.
    I will tell you what I told my own son when he picked up his first blade and played at being a soldier. Whatever your elders have told you... War is not glory. War is seeing people at their very worst and choosing to protect them anyway.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by bagina View Post
    Did you miss "the popular idea of afterlife" part of that post? Tsk tsk tsk Shadowlands aren't the sterotypical afterlife and that was my point.



    The point would be not to make an expansion based on the afterlife in the first place. Fucking duh

    Safe for maybe Chronicles of Narnia I can't think of any popular property that portrayed the afterlife in a satisfying way.
    Okay so your whole argument is "I don't like it therefore it shouldn't exist".

    Which, by the way, has nothing to do with what this thread is actually about.
    We have provided you the actual answers, it's not our fault you refuse to accept reality.

    I also think Greek mythology especially is pretty popular with main-stream audiences so there's that also.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Okay so your whole argument is "I don't like it therefore it shouldn't exist".

    Which, by the way, has nothing to do with what this thread is actually about.
    We have provided you the actual answers, it's not our fault you refuse to accept reality.

    I also think Greek mythology especially is pretty popular with main-stream audiences so there's that also.
    Uhh? The thread is about how Shadowlands are super shitty and underwhelming as an afterlife and my posts are about that. Come on, aside from Tartar/Maw parallels (and I'm talking about "good" afterlife in shadowlands, not hell) Greek afterlife is nowhere near the Bastion or Shadowlands unless you're talking about aesthetics and count togas as a similarity.

    What reality?
    Last edited by bagina; 2020-09-11 at 04:15 PM.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by bagina View Post
    Uhh? The thread is about how Shadowlands are super shitty and underwhelming as an afterlife and my posts are about that. Come on, aside from Tartar/Maw parallels (and I'm talking about "good" afterlife in shadowlands, not hell) Greek afterlife is nowhere near the Bastion or Shadowlands unless you're talking about aesthetics and count togas as a similarity.

    What reality?
    And why would it be? The 4 planes that we get to side with all have a function beyond death. Ardenweald is for rebirth, Revendreth for atonement, Maldraxxus for military and Bastion for ferrying souls.

    We do have an example of a peaceful version of an afterlife and that is Bwonsamdi's Da Other Side.
    It is literally what you would consider "troll heaven".

  12. #72
    Scarab Lord crakerjack's Avatar
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    I wouldn't suggest getting too involved with the lore. While I'll still follow the story, I treat it like a roller coaster and don't try to think about it logically. Trying to apply logic in a video game, let alone a fantasy game just seems like I'd be running myself in circles.
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  13. #73
    Is this a new foreign concept to you ?

  14. #74
    I'm curious what the connection between Anima, Blood Magic, Soul Magic, and Fel (Soul Powered) devices could be. Seems like a lot of things need to be clarified on these interdependences. Likewise, if souls can be permanently destroyed then what is the mechanism to create them? I know magic is a common hand-wave explanation but it would be unsatisfying if that is the only answer we get.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    No fucking way. The worst idea since democracy.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    This is basically what like 70% of the population of the real world believes happens in real life too. With the difference that real life religions believe everyone gets to keep their memories.

    Somehow that didn't stop anyone to mourn death...what a nonsensical thread
    People that make threads like these could get the most perfect game they could possibly imagine, and they would move the goal posts to create a complaint. Some people just want to bitch.

  16. #76
    Scarab Lord Vynestra's Avatar
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    When you die in wow, your soul leaves your body and is ferried off to the shadowlands by the ascended kyrian - Then your soul is sent to one of 5 places that we currently know of anyway, maybe more that we haven't met. Your soul then "lives on" in the shadowlands, in the afterlife essentially.

    However your soul is basically just energy, and like ursoc can be snuffed out completely, that's anima essentially. If your soul "dies" or gets turned into energy/anima or destroyed, then your gone forever, but until then your soul is your collective consciousness from when you were alive.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    I'm curious what the connection between Anima, Blood Magic, Soul Magic, and Fel (Soul Powered) devices could be. Seems like a lot of things need to be clarified on these interdependences. Likewise, if souls can be permanently destroyed then what is the mechanism to create them? I know magic is a common hand-wave explanation but it would be unsatisfying if that is the only answer we get.
    I imagine we will get more on that down the road. There is a mention of the "First Ones" in Shadowlands, being that predate Titans. I guess it's another 3 expansion thread until we finally get to unravel that.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by bagina View Post
    Uhh? The thread is about how Shadowlands are super shitty and underwhelming as an afterlife and my posts are about that. Come on, aside from Tartar/Maw parallels (and I'm talking about "good" afterlife in shadowlands, not hell) Greek afterlife is nowhere near the Bastion or Shadowlands unless you're talking about aesthetics and count togas as a similarity.

    What reality?
    If you need to worry about something pointless, worry about what happens if people die in the Shadowlands. This alone completely invalidates any point you were trying to make.

    It's a video game. It's not real life. The story has to tell you every individual thing that happens. There is no investigation into a world of fiction. Nothing exists unless the writers want you to know. If you're going to be adversarial for no reason, at least go all the way and apply this: "Never trust anything your enemy wants you to know."

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    However your soul is basically just energy, and like ursoc can be snuffed out completely, that's anima essentially. If your soul "dies" or gets turned into energy/anima or destroyed, then your gone forever, but until then your soul is your collective consciousness from when you were alive.
    Well, you're gone forever until the story needs you again. It's a fantasy story. The writers can do anything they want as long as they can create a reason.

  19. #79
    Banned Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    If the dead can gain new bodies in the Shadowlands apparently, the question is can they have children?

    That'd be really odd when you think about it.
    probably yes, i mean there is native races there who have children just fine

    shadowlands apparently is just an elevated state of the mortal soul, there your soul can rly die. i think its a common concept, that the mortal world is just the beginning, or the first stage.

  20. #80
    Epic! Bwonsamdi the Dead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    I agree - It's such a depressing afterlife. Even when you die you're stuck with all the political infighting and faction bullshit.

    Imagine you finally die IRL, and then in death you're dragged into a political fight between Ghost-Reagan and Ghost-Henry the 8th arguing over taxes.
    Yeah, I just want to hang out with cool people who died long before I was born. Not some 'fight for the Afterlife' BS

    At least the troll Afterlife is real though, right?

    It's a total mindscrew. Imagine living your life and thinking that you'll be someone cool after you die. But nope, its several organized realms. And imagine the sheer horror hat at any time they could just 'kill' you and feed your essence to someone/thing else.

    It'd be like being unplugged from the Matrix

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    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    And why would it be? The 4 planes that we get to side with all have a function beyond death. Ardenweald is for rebirth, Revendreth for atonement, Maldraxxus for military and Bastion for ferrying souls.

    We do have an example of a peaceful version of an afterlife and that is Bwonsamdi's Da Other Side.
    It is literally what you would consider "troll heaven".
    Hmm... Maybe Bwonboi just made it because he though the other afterlife realms suck, and he wanted a cozy place for his troll pals?
    Last edited by Bwonsamdi the Dead; 2020-09-11 at 05:25 PM.

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