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  1. #1

    If they re-release the entire game, which boss would last the longest?

    TL;DR Which boss required the most gear?


    OP:
    Was just thinking if there was any boss that couldn't be crushed by top-notch players without a few weeks reset worth of gear. Given that they generally do so even on the original release, I'm guessing not.

    It's a tough question to answer because the first boss in every expansion is "harder" because people have to level first and have no gear. That's why I didn't make a poll, depending on how you count things (like class balance being totally different at the end of an expansion than the beginning) the question can be answered fifty different ways. Maybe I should have said, "Which boss would last longest until they were killed by 250 US or EU guilds?"

    With anachronistic knowledge of what classes will be OP in 2.4, I don't see Black Temple or Sunwell posing any real challenge.

    Obsidian Sanctum (Sartharion) + 3 is actually interesting. I believe DKs were super overpowered at launch and if the toned-down versions that existed at the end of Wrath are originally in the game, tank survival could be a problem.

    Yogg 0 Light and / or Algalon...those fights I'm sure the numbers mattered, but I think a lot of it was learning the mechanics. I think a group of players that had done it back in the day could handle them pretty fast. Although undergeared Mimiron Firefighter is probably no pushover.

    The Lich King fight...the tanks kinda needed their tier bonuses, right? But again I don't see it really being the hardest.

    Moving to Cata, I don't really know anything about Sinestra.

    Hard-Mode Ragnaros is one that comes to mind. IIRC that fight was quite involved, but I think a raid geared out in Blackwing Descent / Throne of the Four Winds / Bastion of Twilight could probably handle it.

    Dragon Soul Meh.

    Pandaria I didn't raid hardcore, but I don't recall the first tier being that hard. I had heard Ra-den was challenging in Throne of Thunder. And Siege of Orgrimmar had some fights that were the heyday of boomkins and hunters.
    Last edited by garicasha; 2020-09-11 at 04:17 AM.
    Reminders of what vanilla was like: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...nilla-was-like
    17 hazed on the Golemagg "cinematic": https://i.imgur.com/nlZM3cj.jpg

  2. #2
    By the top tier of players and guilds? Everything would die very fast, but keep in mind Vanilla was the most basic of content, and been farmed into oblivion over the past decade, in private servers and the like, so everyone is knowledgeable and experienced on it.

    If you suddenly re-released a mythic kiljaeden from tomb, or mythic argus from antorus, or even heroic ragnaros from firelands, the vast majority of guilds would struggle on them again (or at least spend time learning them again). it's just not the same thing as it is on classic. lots of execution to be had by all.

    and considering how bosses on classic have 1 or 2 abilities, and you then check most recent mythic bosses with something like 15-20 stuff to keep track of... it's a whole new ball game.

    but again, the top tier of guilds and players would just smash everything. knowledge and experience are everything, nothing left to figure out (tactics, weakauras, addons, etc....).

  3. #3
    Wrath content will be a wash because of people utilizing dk tanks. Yogg0 will go down easily with stacked warlocks and 3 hunters to pull out adds.


    Muru will be the only difficult boss since it requires coordination and needs a somewhat balanced raid comp.

  4. #4
    Mythic KJ.
    - Enough prattling. Let them come. We shall grind their bones to dust.

  5. #5
    If we're talking a killable state & not buggy/impossibly overtuned, then probably something like Mythic KJ. Perhaps with a few more lockouts of gear Method might've been able to drop it a nerf earlier than they did, & very few guilds killed it with anywhere near a similar level of difficulty to what they did.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    By the top tier of players and guilds? Everything would die very fast, but keep in mind Vanilla was the most basic of content, and been farmed into oblivion over the past decade, in private servers and the like, so everyone is knowledgeable and experienced on it.
    Using the metric of “top tier of players” is kinda meh though, don’t you think? By that logic, all content dies “very fast” when comparing top tier vs regular players, no?

    I don’t mean this towards you specifically, but why do people talk about private servers and being farmed for years when again, that same regular player-base does NOT play on private servers. Hell, I would be willing to wager even that the overwhelming majority of private server players play on those servers because they don’t want to pay for a sub, NOT because they miss the expansion.
    Last edited by alturic; 2020-09-11 at 04:32 AM.

  7. #7
    Scarab Lord
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    Mythic Kil'jaeden for sure.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    I don’t mean this towards you specifically, but why do people talk about private servers and being farmed for years when again, that same regular player-base does NOT play on private servers. Hell, I would be willing to wager even that the overwhelming majority of private server players play on those servers because they don’t want to pay for a sub, NOT because they miss the expansion.
    Because all of the strats and perfect optimization still comes from those private server players, regardless if people played private or not. FuryProt is a great example of something that came out of PServers but is utilized by every guild now.

    Bosses wouldn't be dying nearly as quickly by the general populace without all the PServer resources being available regarding strats, gear, specs, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teffi
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    It's just an assertion, so it's neither logical nor illogical.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by xGLxAnubis View Post
    Because all of the strats and perfect optimization still comes from those private server players, regardless if people played private or not. FuryProt is a great example of something that came out of PServers but is utilized by every guild now.

    Bosses wouldn't be dying nearly as quickly by the general populace without all the PServer resources being available regarding strats, gear, specs, etc.
    Sounds like what you’re saying is that even 2, 5, 10 years after these bosses have been killed and farmed countless times when it was current content we’re still learning things about them... strange, no?

  10. #10
    Lich King 0%? I mean, I don't think anything would last super long given class stacking gear sharing etc., but that one is fairly interesting. Need 5% more damage, 5% more healing, and tanks having 5% less health. Was killed like that a few months after he was killed with 5%, presumably with much better gear, Shadowmournes etc. So might put up a more significant challenge from a gear perspective than most others from that era.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    Sounds like what you’re saying is that even 2, 5, 10 years after these bosses have been killed and farmed countless times when it was current content we’re still learning things about them... strange, no?
    That's not at all what I'm saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teffi
    You play a game for 20+ hours a week and you're "an addict".
    You sit on your fat ass eating nachos and watching men in tight pants throw a ball around for 20+ hours a week and you're "a man".
    Sometimes, I just can't even:
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx
    It's just an assertion, so it's neither logical nor illogical.

  12. #12
    Mythic KJ or Uunat. Uunat is hardest boss they ever made imo.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    Using the metric of “top tier of players” is kinda meh though, don’t you think? By that logic, all content dies “very fast” when comparing top tier vs regular players, no?
    I agree, but main thread\OP was :

    Was just thinking if there was any boss that couldn't be crushed by top-notch players without a few weeks reset worth of gear.
    hence, that reasoning

    i do agree with you tho.

  14. #14
    I don't think anything through cataclysm would last very long; if they did icecrown prog the same way they did on live LK might give people a hard time, but only for a week or two. Firelands ragnaros maybe.

    in mists lei shen was tough, but I don't think he'd present that much of a challenge to a raid that went in with appropriately stacked classes (immunities etc) and a strat already set.

  15. #15
    Heh I'm smiling because I didn't raid hardcore very much, but the one boss I was in for every single one of my guild's pulls on was Mythic Kil'Jaeden. And even that whole tier could be significantly simplified by bringing 7-9 rogues, Cloak of Shadows was just SO good on Sassz'ine, Avatar, and KJ.

    But yah, M-KJ is not a fight that you can carry anyone with low situational awareness. All 20 people have to dodge balls, anticipate meteors, soak the line-flame, play ping-pong, and dodge obelisks all while making some pretty tight DPS and healing checks. Like Lich King was a great fight but M-KJ is just on a whole other level.

    And that fight definitely required a ton of teamwork, it was really interesting watching how much faster we could handle meteors after doing them for a few weeks. And even that fight would be easier rolling in with the absurd class stacking:
    --2 bear tanks for movement roars and good damage reduction and the adds and 1-2 other things
    --1 DK tank to gorefiend's grasp the adds
    --resto sham to reincarnate the sacced mark
    --holy pally to blow up the healing clones
    --resto druid and disc or maybe holy priest because they brought so much more utility than a second shaman or second pally healer or a lolweaver
    --1 warlock for the portal
    --As many rogues and mages to soak meteors as you could get

    So basically in a 20-man raid team if you didn't have 12+ people of a specific class the fight was going to be way harder.

    That tier was also out an inappropriately short amount of time...so that Argus could be out an inappropriately long amount of time...never understoodd that. And mythic Sassz'ine was my least favorite fight of all WoW, it was basically like they threw every mechanic in to one boss and called it a day. (Splitting the arrow damage required that weak aura, and IMO the game should mark you like Star Augur or something if a weak aura is for all practical purposes required.)

    Mythic Avatar Phase 1 was a great fight, though, the teamwork of swapping beams was really what hardcore raiding is all about. Mythic Aggramar was also a great fight. I would have liked to see tank design be less about them getting hit and more about controlling adds, like moving the CC abilities more towards tanks controlling the fire elementals, but for PvP that wouldn't work.

    One thing about Tomb is that a lot of the fights were fairly hard. The first 3 were gimmies, Sisters was 100-150 pulls, Maiden was 100+ pulls, Sassz'ine was 200+, Avatar 250-350, KJ 300-500. Compare that to something like Dragon Soul...
    Last edited by garicasha; 2020-09-11 at 06:34 AM.
    Reminders of what vanilla was like: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...nilla-was-like
    17 hazed on the Golemagg "cinematic": https://i.imgur.com/nlZM3cj.jpg

  16. #16
    I know a bunch have people said this already, but I honestly think it's Mythic KJ, without question.

  17. #17
    Immortal TJ's Avatar
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    Maybe not THE hardest, but Heroic Rag in Firelands wouldn't be steamrolled by a lot of guilds. Sure, the top top guilds would get him quickly compared to release, but normal guilds would get slaughtered over and over by him. You have to be good and follow tactics otherwise you can wipe at near enough any time, there is no brute force.

  18. #18
    Pre-nerf rag, no-buff LK, and mythic KJ

  19. #19
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    I can see a few of the harder encounters in Wrath walling the average guilds for a bit, but no more than that.

    I don't expect anything to be a real issue to kill for top guilds until Cataclysm, and I might even be overestimating the content/underestimating the players. I will, however, almost bet that actually hard encounters like 0 Lights Yogg-Saron, Firefighter, Heroic Lich King, and a lot of the Cataclysm Heroic raid content won't be humiliated by the masses on week one of its re-release like we've seen with Classic so far.

    As for who'll last longer, it's tough to say with having all the knowledge, but Mythic Kil'jaeden sounds like a legitimate combination of difficulty and gear requirements that not even the best of the best can just waltz in there and one shot him.
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  20. #20
    Ragnaros, Archimonde, or Kil'jaeden.

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