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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Iem View Post
    Has it occured to you that maybe a lot of people share Preach's opinions? Or do you honestly believe he is completely alone with his thoughts on WoW?
    Sure, but if you head to the forums 10 hours after a popular content creator uploads a video and you repeat word for word the theses found in that video it's clear the thread isn't a result of a spontaneous epiphany in your head.

    This goes for all content creators btw, not just one.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by facefist View Post
    If we want a game where everything is 100 % polished (as in the opinion of the community, who will always find something to QQ about), we will never have a release. I think covenants are one good example: half the community is saying it is the worst things ever, while half of the community is saying it is the best thing ever. No matter how this turns out, someone is going to be pleased and someone is not going to be pleased.

    I rather get a new expac that has some shitty mechanics rather than wait 6 months to get a expac that still has shitty mechanics. I know that some things will be totally shit, but I'm so bored with BfA that I rather have that than wait for longer.
    Half the communauty saying it's the best thing ever ?
    No.
    It's a small part of the communauty saying "it does not affect me, so I don't care about others complaints".
    People are not angry about a new progression system Blizzard will never manage correctly. But about the non swappable part of a system they'll fail to do properly.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    that meme is obsolete after the efforts they have put in addressing feedback in SL Alpha & Beta
    The meme was obsolete the moment it said "Players give constructive feedback." when especially on MMO champion the average feeback is stomp feet, cry and think acting like a spoilt brat being told no in the toy department is how to react to anything.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioporco View Post
    -True
    -False, you probably were doing HC and weekly 10 so you didnt see the issue
    -False again, you probably didnt play a pure DPS class
    -Moderately false since the beside the "trait or get benched" problem there were , respec cost, impossibility to edit them per spec like essence
    -Farming PVP or PVE for mandatory essence is bad design.
    -True but not the "is the only example"
    - "False, you probably were doing HC and weekly 10 so you didnt see the issue"

    Me and the 99% of other players who don't raid mythic - the game isn't and shouldn't cater to the absolute minority just because they have ego issues that they aren't always special for killing the hardest content

    - I did, just again - if you weren't in the 1% - you can play what you like. People who farmed 300+ MoS runs and then got mad when specs got nerfed making those runs pointless only have themselves to blame. Yes, they should've allowed you to transfer progress somehow - but no one forces you to devote that much time to one spec. I mained a mage in legion, I played each spec pretty evenly - I never had issue getting every curve or doing my weekly stuff

    - God forbid you have to play your character to gain power rewards

  5. #45
    Warchief Sluvs's Avatar
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    Is this the new craze? Telling that artifacts and legendaries were a failure?

    Bellular video called legion a beta expansion until halfway through it. Is this the new discourse?

    Because if it is, it's a stupid one.
    I don't want solutions. I want to be mad. - PoorlyDrawnlines

  6. #46
    1. Garrison wasn't a problem for me, lack of content to do outside was (also later introduced gold mission, but it was just desperate act to keep subs).

    2. Loved Legiondaries, it was great incentive to do many types of content, especially liked that in encourage you to do just emissary without need to grind all world quest. Only thing I would change is option to target next legenadary, I would prefer it over SL legendary system.

    3. Sorry, I loved artifact system as well, especially during 7.0.

    4. Yep, Azerite gear was shit for min-maxers and at best neutral for others. Only positive I see is first breach into post-titanforging world.

    5. Again, loved Essences, it wasn't best system, but encouraged you to do different stuff like Legiondaries and that's big + for me. I wish I had more time to invest into rank 4 achiev + title, this will be veeeery rare in future expansions. And yeah, lack of catch up in early 8.3 was bad, no doubt about that.

    6. Sadly corruption has lot more negatives than positivies as well, this changed my BfA (personal, I play Fury so class problems didn't affect me) score from 'good' (after 8.2) to 'mediocre' among WoW expansions.

    Also I don't trust blindly Blizzard, but one thing I know - I had fun on launch with every expansion including WoD (bare technical difficulties); if some patch will be unfun for me (it's not only on Blizzard, sometimes we just burnout for few months), I'll just take break from WoW without creating drama. Am I doing something wrong?

  7. #47
    Pandaren Monk
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    If you're unhappy playing a game, it might be a good idea to stop playing.
    Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elderberries.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivik View Post
    If you are so tired of playing a game with 'beta' systems, how about you just don't?
    Agreed, the only way to effect change in a company that is solely focused on money is to hit them in their wallets. If you want to see the game get better, quit. If it doesn't then you haven't wasted your time, if it does, yaaay!

  9. #49
    Bloodsail Admiral salate's Avatar
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    but artifacts were actually cool.
    Garrisons were cut off, you couldnt take your favorite location to build it up, blizzard wanted to make it like “choose a zone and make the home” too bad they cut it in the end.
    step into everything will gief ya nothing, mon

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuli View Post
    Well, who says someone trusts blizz blindly? This forum is a pure antithesis to that, because most of the people here distrust blizz blindly.

    But hey, what is your post about again? You don't even talk about a feature of the new expansion. I can assume you talk about the covenant system...but unlike the other features you talk about its in there since alpha and was highly discussed and improved by blizz and the community. We'll see if it found a golden spot, I hope so, but I'm worried, too.
    Truth to be told, we've been in alpha/beta for so many months now, and there are still so many broken or horrible/unfun covenant abilities. Blizzard has fixed a bit of the covenant abilities, but has done jackshit for the most part. If they are going to implement all 48 abilities in total, they need to ensure that all 48 are balanced/fun.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I'm tired of still playing beta when Blizzard releases their new expansions. Blizzard keeps launching systems in a horrible state and then end up having spend a lot of time in order to "fix" it.

    Please remember how bad these systems were when they launched and how wrong Blizzard were from the get go.

    - Garrisons
    - Legion Legendaries
    - Artifacts
    - Azerite gear
    - Essences
    - Corruption gear

    Please think about how awful these systems were when they were launched. And how much time Blizzard had to use during the expansions to fix them. It amaze me how people can still have this blind trust in Blizzard that they will get things right. How can you trust that Blizzard will be able to fix things with balancing after you have experienced the corruption gear.

    Blizzard have often been wrong. Blizzard don't deserve your blind trust.
    Funny how you made that list of "examples when Blizzard was wrong from the get go" and yet fail to explain why the items in your list were a mistake in your view. Anyways, here's my view:

    • Garrisons were good. The problem is that there was nothing else at all to do in the outside world.
    • Legion legendaries were fine, for the most part. The only problem was how the "class-agnostic" legendaries were, for the most part, highly underwhelming.
    • Artifacts were good. Each spec and class having a different "talent tree" was pretty good. And I didn't care one iota for the so-called "infinite grind".
    • Azerite gear is a good system. As in, being able to pick-and-choose your "set" bonuses. The only hiccup is having been tied to the Heart of Azeroth progression. All slots should've been available from the start.
    • Essences as a whole was... okay. What sucked about them is that the PvP essence was BiS for most specs for PvE.
    • Corruption wasn't as bad as people made it out to be. Bad? Yes, but, again, not as bad as people made it to be. Sure, it sucked that someone way less geared might out-DPS you due to them having good corruptions, but for the most part, I liked the corruption system.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    Those were literally the best iteration of daily quests we ever had.
    I wouldn't call the daily quests in MoP as a mistake, but I wouldn't exactly call them "the best iteration ever", either, because I remember how it sucked having to grind and grind the other reputations just so I could unlock the Golden Lotus reputation to then grind and grind again.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
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  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    - Garrisons were fine
    - Legendaries were fine, just obtaining them was annoying for the first patch
    - Artifacts were fine
    - Azerite gear was annoying until 8.1
    - Essences were fine
    - Corruption is the only example that's actually a bad system


    Of course, the most obvious difference is blizzard are actively listening and changing stuff on the beta more than any other expansion - look at the pvp changes most recently as an example. It's clear they want to get this right, in the case of covenants - clearly they have the data and it obvious tells them most people are happy with how things are. Just because preach, asmongold and bellular make malding videos about covenants every other day doesn't mean they're right about them

    - Garrisons were fine - Agreed, however they took over the actual game.
    - Legendaries were fine, just obtaining them was annoying for the first patch - Getting locked from getting your BIS legendary because you got two crappy ones... hoping to randomly get a lego that your class needed to compete? you're wrong here
    - Artifacts were fine - Artifacts were fine, Artifact power was garbage. If you did multiple roles you were screwed for a long time.
    - Azerite gear was annoying until 8.1 - Azerite gear is still bad. Sure you can get them easier but the traits themselves aren't balanced at all and some specs (blood dk) have no good class traits
    - Essences were fine - mostly fine, outside of blood of the enemy.
    - Corruption is the only example that's actually a bad system - I think we all can agree corruption is awful

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Drigs View Post
    - Garrisons were fine - Agreed, however they took over the actual game.
    - Legendaries were fine, just obtaining them was annoying for the first patch - Getting locked from getting your BIS legendary because you got two crappy ones... hoping to randomly get a lego that your class needed to compete? you're wrong here
    - Artifacts were fine - Artifacts were fine, Artifact power was garbage. If you did multiple roles you were screwed for a long time.
    - Azerite gear was annoying until 8.1 - Azerite gear is still bad. Sure you can get them easier but the traits themselves aren't balanced at all and some specs (blood dk) have no good class traits
    - Essences were fine - mostly fine, outside of blood of the enemy.
    - Corruption is the only example that's actually a bad system - I think we all can agree corruption is awful
    If you played to a degree that having your BiS lego was actually required of you - you had your BiS in the first patch. If you didn't - you might not but in that case it literally didn't matter.

    Same thing for artifacts - unless you were at the very cutting edge, you could easily play more than one role - most people did. Just because streamers and world first guilds tell you you have to farm MoS endlessly etc to be competetive - no you didn't - perhaps in their world, but their world is less than 1% of players so who cares.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I'm tired of still playing beta when Blizzard releases their new expansions. Blizzard keeps launching systems in a horrible state and then end up having spend a lot of time in order to "fix" it.

    Please remember how bad these systems were when they launched and how wrong Blizzard were from the get go.

    - Garrisons
    - Legion Legendaries
    - Artifacts
    - Azerite gear
    - Essences
    - Corruption gear

    Please think about how awful these systems were when they were launched. And how much time Blizzard had to use during the expansions to fix them. It amaze me how people can still have this blind trust in Blizzard that they will get things right. How can you trust that Blizzard will be able to fix things with balancing after you have experienced the corruption gear.

    Blizzard have often been wrong. Blizzard don't deserve your blind trust.
    Aside from Corruption gear, you just listed a bunch of reasons why I should trust Blizzard because I loved Garrisons, Legion Legendaries, Artifacts, Azerite Gear, and Essences. To each their own, I guess.

  15. #55
    Here's the thing

    If you are the top 1% and your covenant choice actually matters and is important to actually killing bosses (protip; if you're raiding heroic or doing 15s or lower, like 99% of players - you can pick what you like without fear you can't do what you want to do) - then by now surely you're used to these choices being made for you? You can't be at the very cutting edge and also expect to play exactly how you want - you have to make concessions. I don't know why we've decided it's such a huge issue in shadowlands.

    If you are not raiding mythic, pick what you want and ignore everyone who gives you shit for it - they are wrong.

  16. #56
    If you've had this many problems with the game maybe you just don't like playing the game.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Here's the thing

    If you are the top 1% and your covenant choice actually matters and is important to actually killing bosses (protip; if you're raiding heroic or doing 15s or lower, like 99% of players - you can pick what you like without fear you can't do what you want to do) - then by now surely you're used to these choices being made for you? You can't be at the very cutting edge and also expect to play exactly how you want - you have to make concessions. I don't know why we've decided it's such a huge issue in shadowlands.

    If you are not raiding mythic, pick what you want and ignore everyone who gives you shit for it - they are wrong.
    Heavens that again... if i can't play well and get an passive buff for 1% more dmg i make 1% more damage... why do people think performance of your abilities only matters for the (pulled from somewhere) 1%? That is not true and never will be.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    If you are not raiding mythic, pick what you want and ignore everyone who gives you shit for it - they are wrong.
    Imagine that some raiders below mythic also enjoy optimizing their character for a given situation.
    But i guess those people are "wrong" as well.

    The real irony of this whole debate is that those that keep repeating the "1%" line cannot grasp that some people enjoy optimizing for the sake of optimizing, not just because they *have* to do it.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Heavens that again... if i can't play well and get an passive buff for 1% more dmg i make 1% more damage... why do people think performance of your abilities only matters for the (pulled from somewhere) 1%? That is not true and never will be.
    What's your point here?

    There's nothing wrong with optimising, but in the pursuit of optimisation you obviously can't have everything.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Imagine that some raiders below mythic also enjoy optimizing their character for a given situation.
    But i guess those people are "wrong" as well.

    The real irony of this whole debate is that those that keep repeating the "1%" line cannot grasp that some people enjoy optimizing for the sake of optimizing, not just because they *have* to do it.
    You can optimise. The point is you can't optimise and expect to pick what you want all the time - that's never ever been a thing. If you want to optimise, covenants still allow for that.

    The fact is if you aren't part of the 1% you can pick what you like without gimping yourself, contrary to what content creators and naysayers would have you believe

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I'm tired of still playing beta when Blizzard releases their new expansions. Blizzard keeps launching systems in a horrible state and then end up having spend a lot of time in order to "fix" it.

    Please remember how bad these systems were when they launched and how wrong Blizzard were from the get go.

    - Garrisons
    - Legion Legendaries
    - Artifacts
    - Azerite gear
    - Essences
    - Corruption gear

    Please think about how awful these systems were when they were launched. And how much time Blizzard had to use during the expansions to fix them. It amaze me how people can still have this blind trust in Blizzard that they will get things right. How can you trust that Blizzard will be able to fix things with balancing after you have experienced the corruption gear.

    Blizzard have often been wrong. Blizzard don't deserve your blind trust.
    I just play and enjoy the game, No matter what they do, and if i don't enjoy it i just take a break from the game.

    Stop overthinking things so much, You as players do not have to do any thing that you do not want to do, and if someone tries to "Force" you to do something.. Just tell them that you do not consider this a fun activity and won't do it.

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