Thread: No classic+?

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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Because why on earth would Blizzard develop two fully functional MMOs?
    Because they are two perfectly good games

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by kukkamies View Post
    Because they are two perfectly good games
    Classic is a museum piece. It is meant to be a low-effort way to experience a version of the game that is no longer able to be experienced otherwise. It is not intended to be a replacement or a competition to retail WoW. Developing a new version of the retail game for Classic goes against quite literally every single piece of information Blizzard has shared with us about their intentions of the project. It takes a special kind of arrogance to believe that Blizzard would suddenly do a 180 on this because there exist portions of the playerbase so disenfranchised with the current retail game that they would prefer Blizzard just start over again.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Classic is a museum piece. It is meant to be a low-effort way to experience a version of the game that is no longer able to be experienced otherwise. It is not intended to be a replacement or a competition to retail WoW. Developing a new version of the retail game for Classic goes against quite literally every single piece of information Blizzard has shared with us about their intentions of the project. It takes a special kind of arrogance to believe that Blizzard would suddenly do a 180 on this because there exist portions of the playerbase so disenfranchised with the current retail game that they would prefer Blizzard just start over again.
    I've said multiple times I don't believe in it either. In the very quote you took I said "Continuing to TBC is the easy and low risk way. I think they'll do that too, but it's boring."
    Are you arguing against yourself or what?

  4. #184
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundering View Post
    This is of course still in the air, but do you think it is worth your money when classic does not get the money that we pay for it, and it seems to goto keep retail floating instead.
    Classic was built with one thing in mind: To preserve as best as possible the game as it was when it opened. There was never a realistic option that they would add new stuff to it or much less expansions with new content. It's what it is. Retail is doing fine, with or without Classic. It's great to have both versions of the game available to play.
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  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by kukkamies View Post
    I've said multiple times I don't believe in it either. In the very quote you took I said "Continuing to TBC is the easy and low risk way. I think they'll do that too, but it's boring."
    Are you arguing against yourself or what?
    Brother, this entire exchange started because you equated developing a new version of Classic as "ambitious" when it's anything but.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Brother, this entire exchange started because you equated developing a new version of Classic as "ambitious" when it's anything but.
    What do you think trying to recreate the biggest mmo on Earth in a new way would be if not ambitious?

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by kukkamies View Post
    What do you think trying to recreate the biggest mmo on Earth in a new way would be if not ambitious?
    Foolish for one. Reckless, idealistic, and most importantly pointless.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kukkamies View Post
    If Blizzard redefines Classic as Retail 2.0 of course it'll be shit. There's no reason to believe they would do that. Sounds like those Anti-Classic ones from 1-2 years ago. They kept saying Blizzard will change Classic into Retail, fix classes, change raids, change cities to be modern and quality before releasing it and then no one will like it. There's no point in thinking about if Blizzard fucks it up after making it. No one should ever do anything with that mindset.
    The difference is, people who wanted Classic wanted a tangible product. The product Blizzard already delivered to them.

    You want something entirely new, but "in the spirit of" Classic. Nobody can define what "in the spirit of" Classic is. You can't even. There is no unified theory on what "in the spirit of Classic" means.

    But OSRS and RS3 are separate. You can check http://www.misplaceditems.com/rs_too...l=week&total=1 for online players. I don't see anything that would imply they have a single playerbase. OSRS gains players when it has good patches and hype. RS3 gains players when it has good patches.
    You cannot even login to both at the same time, so you need two accounts and you need to pay twice.
    And yet in game, you can see people talking using terms from both games, talking about their experiences in both games.

    "There is a number of people who play both games" is a true statement. The question of how many remains, but it's not in question whether people play both games.

    And no, you don't need two accounts. Membership on OSRS is membership on RS3. You can't play both at the same time, but you can in fact play both.

    OSRS team has tried to deal with the bots... They always are. There just isn't an easy answer. Even WoW and RS3 have lots of bots still. As long as there's money to be made there'll be bots.
    Why would you say OSRS barely works? It's been growing for 6 years straight. So far it has worked really well. It's turning into a better game every year.
    There's a difference between actively dealing with bots and "watching the same set of bots running amok for literal years."

    OSRS has had the same bot problem for it's entire lifespan. WoW is dealing with different bots. You're conflating two different problems into the same thing.

    And OSRS barely works because even the idea behind it is shoddy. All it will take is one unpopular change and the entire playerbase quits. The problem you refuse to see is that Blizzard LOVES pushing through unpopular changes on their games "because it's for the good of the game." Jagex knows they can just default to player polls to decide what to do with OSRS because it's playerbase is, for the most part, unified in it's stance on what is "in the spirit of OSRS" - which is to say, slow, boring, grindy everything.

    WoW is not the same. WoW has NEVER been that way, in any expansion, at any point in it's lifespan. It was always the MMO that catered to as many groups as it possibly could. You will never find one unifying voice for what "in the spirit of" any expansion really means. It doesn't exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
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  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Foolish for one. Reckless, idealistic, and most importantly pointless.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The difference is, people who wanted Classic wanted a tangible product. The product Blizzard already delivered to them.

    You want something entirely new, but "in the spirit of" Classic. Nobody can define what "in the spirit of" Classic is. You can't even. There is no unified theory on what "in the spirit of Classic" means.



    And yet in game, you can see people talking using terms from both games, talking about their experiences in both games.

    "There is a number of people who play both games" is a true statement. The question of how many remains, but it's not in question whether people play both games.

    And no, you don't need two accounts. Membership on OSRS is membership on RS3. You can't play both at the same time, but you can in fact play both.



    There's a difference between actively dealing with bots and "watching the same set of bots running amok for literal years."

    OSRS has had the same bot problem for it's entire lifespan. WoW is dealing with different bots. You're conflating two different problems into the same thing.

    And OSRS barely works because even the idea behind it is shoddy. All it will take is one unpopular change and the entire playerbase quits. The problem you refuse to see is that Blizzard LOVES pushing through unpopular changes on their games "because it's for the good of the game." Jagex knows they can just default to player polls to decide what to do with OSRS because it's playerbase is, for the most part, unified in it's stance on what is "in the spirit of OSRS" - which is to say, slow, boring, grindy everything.

    WoW is not the same. WoW has NEVER been that way, in any expansion, at any point in it's lifespan. It was always the MMO that catered to as many groups as it possibly could. You will never find one unifying voice for what "in the spirit of" any expansion really means. It doesn't exist.
    Of course there are a number of players who play both games. There's players who play WoW and OSRS. Who play Paradox games and OSRS. Console players who play OSRS. Is it relevant to anything?

    Different bots like in OSRS? Wow has had levelling and gold farming bots for over 10 years. Just as OSRS. They improve detection algorithm and ban, then botters improve their bots and don't get banned, repeat. Same in both games as far as I can see.

    Jagex has pushed changed that are different from polls or didn't poll at all though. For the same "good for the game" reason. People didn't care that much, some complained like they always.
    It depends on what you mean by unpopular change? Removing trading and forcing everyone back to level 1? Of course people would quit. Making the game easier without polls? Not sure if anyone quit at all.

    Wow isn't the same, I agree. Said that many times as well. Idk why keep repeating it? There's so many different ways they could take the game unlike RS. Rereleasing TBC and continuing with wotlk etc is the most boring, low effort one is all I'm saying.

  9. #189
    TBC is assuredly coming now so don't worry about Claasic+.
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  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by kukkamies View Post
    Of course there are a number of players who play both games. There's players who play WoW and OSRS. Who play Paradox games and OSRS. Console players who play OSRS. Is it relevant to anything?
    The fact that the shared audience is a loss for Jagex. One sub = Both accounts. None of the companies you named cannibalizes on it's own audience. OSRS players who also play RS3, are not two subs - They are one sub.

    The same with Classic and Retail. Classic+ would not bring in new blood, it would barely hold the attention of people who wanted Classic. It's barely catered to an audience at all. It would just cannibalize it's own product.

    Different bots like in OSRS? Wow has had levelling and gold farming bots for over 10 years. Just as OSRS. They improve detection algorithm and ban, then botters improve their bots and don't get banned, repeat. Same in both games as far as I can see.
    I mean as in I can download RuneBuddy, the same bot I would have downloaded 10 years ago, and it will function to bot on OSRS. This is not true even on RS3, which has since updated to the NXT client and done a fairly good (not perfect) job of knocking out a large number of bots. This is not true on WoW, where Honorbuddy and old fishing mods have since stopped being updated, to be replaced by newer, harder to detect methods.

    Jagex has pushed changed that are different from polls or didn't poll at all though. For the same "good for the game" reason. People didn't care that much, some complained like they always.
    It depends on what you mean by unpopular change? Removing trading and forcing everyone back to level 1? Of course people would quit. Making the game easier without polls? Not sure if anyone quit at all.
    Literally the entire point of OSRS is that every change has to be voted on, and if it doesn't pass, it doesn't get implemented. Someone is arguing highly disingenuously.

    Wow isn't the same, I agree. Said that many times as well. Idk why keep repeating it? There's so many different ways they could take the game unlike RS. Rereleasing TBC and continuing with wotlk etc is the most boring, low effort one is all I'm saying.
    Because all of the different ways you describe are so horridly bad that they might as well not actually be considered real options. You DON'T seem to get that "just do what OSRS did" isn't an actual option for WoW, due to how different the two games and their audiences are. It's a gimmick that appeals to a small subset of an even smaller subset of players, and actively upset a much larger majority of those players.

    Rereleasing TBC is the most sensible option. It's the option that actually has MONEY in it, where your options have little-to-no monetary value at all. To you it may be boring, but to those of us who want it, it's exactly what we're waiting for, and it is what makes the most sense for Blizzard monetarily.
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2020-09-14 at 03:36 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Classic was built with one thing in mind: To preserve as best as possible the game as it was when it opened.-snip-.
    And if you'd remember, the developers working on it were interested in also remaking vanilla according to the original intent. but i can see them rushing BC due to SLs and their stock being on a downward trajectory again.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Once again, there is plenty reason. The servers right NOW are mostly barren spare a handful of them. There is absolutely nothing new in Classic either. People are literally replaying all the same shit that happened in Vanilla. At least retail introduces new stuff. Looking at the servers myself and seeing how much people complain about servers being empty on the official forums is all the reason I need to say Classic has nowhere near the numbers retail does
    BfA is the same shit as Legion with different wrapping. There's nothing new or fresh happening just because things get new names.
    My retail server is now connected with 5 other servers, and while standing in Boralus I still see no players from any of those servers. I see loads of people from different servers though (Thanks sharding!), and it doesn't feel empty, but there's no active guilds I can join and the chat is dead save for level 1 players selling boosts.

    Retail doesn't feel empty because sharding exists for that exact reason, duh. Classic doesn't have that and as a result some places may feel empty.

    Do you even play Classic, or are you only parroting what you hear people say?

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Tronski View Post
    BfA is the same shit as Legion with different wrapping. There's nothing new or fresh happening just because things get new names.
    My retail server is now connected with 5 other servers, and while standing in Boralus I still see no players from any of those servers. I see loads of people from different servers though (Thanks sharding!), and it doesn't feel empty, but there's no active guilds I can join and the chat is dead save for level 1 players selling boosts.

    Retail doesn't feel empty because sharding exists for that exact reason, duh. Classic doesn't have that and as a result some places may feel empty.

    Do you even play Classic, or are you only parroting what you hear people say?
    So because you play on a crap server, that means all other servers are the same right? Well I hate to break it to you but all the retail servers I play on aren't empty and the majority of people I see are actually from the server. So yeah. You're just on a crap server.

    I played Classic for a bit then stopped because it just wasn't fun for me. But I have several friends that play and I ask them about server situations. They confirm what I've been saying. Outside of a handful of popular servers, Classic is mostly a ghost town. This is said on the official forums too. But for some reason, Classic fans on this site refuse to admit that Classic has a far lower population than retail.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    So because you play on a crap server, that means all other servers are the same right? Well I hate to break it to you but all the retail servers I play on aren't empty and the majority of people I see are actually from the server. So yeah. You're just on a crap server.

    I played Classic for a bit then stopped because it just wasn't fun for me. But I have several friends that play and I ask them about server situations. They confirm what I've been saying. Outside of a handful of popular servers, Classic is mostly a ghost town. This is said on the official forums too. But for some reason, Classic fans on this site refuse to admit that Classic has a far lower population than retail.
    So it only works one way? If I don't see people on retail, my server is bad, but if your friend don't see people on his Classic server, that's definite proof Classic is dead?

    I play on a medium pop server, and it's thriving. Players everywhere, world chat going constantly and the economy is healthy.
    In comparison, across Europe, including Russia, there's 5 Low pop servers. Five.

    That doesn't resonate with your "everyone complaining about Classic being dead"-Claim.

    You want it to be dead because you didn't like it. Easy as that. I think you're just festering in confirmation bias each time you manage to dig up a post about it.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    ...
    Like already repeated. You do need two different subs for RS3 and OSRS unless you are a brainlet beyond belief. It's a game that's passive. With only one sub you are gimping yourself hard, you cannot really have 2 mains with only one subscription. You can dabble sure, to try it out, but to focus on both games needs two subs.

    RuneBuddy does not exist anymore, you cannot use it to bot. It's what OSBuddy used to be, now it's a legit client people used 5 years ago before Runelite. Now you use it if Runelite doesn't work for whatever reason.
    The bots you would actually use are newer, more developed. Stuff like Tribot, Runemate? No idea which ones even work nowadays. Just like in Wow or RS3. Replaced by newer, harder to detect methods. The most advanced ones even use Neural Networks to do PVP and bossing.

    Only polled changed getting in is a point, doesn't mean it's always followed. Stuff like Arceuus RC not following polls, death mechanics, new quests, botting prevention, events. A lot of stuff happens outside polls. Feel free to google and follow OSRS community, it's open to everyone.
    For example "Why is everyone bitching over Blood/Soul runes?" There was a lot of complaining about how Jagex didn't implement it like polled. People didn't quit and it's more popular than ever still. I'm sad about it too, but still played and did blood rc.

    I never said to do what OSRS did, it wouldn't even work to continue straight after Naxx without balancing since powercreep is bonkers, like I've also repeated many times. Did I even propose any real options? The internet isn't just one person and you.
    Only that continuing to TBC is the most boring option, it is a sensible option and the most likely to happen of course. I'm not denying that. Doesn't make it any less boring and lacking imagination. Like I've also repeated quite a few times I think? You really like repeating yourself hehe

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Malikath View Post
    And if you'd remember, the developers working on it were interested in also remaking vanilla according to the original intent. but i can see them rushing BC due to SLs and their stock being on a downward trajectory again.
    That's actually the only way they can get another hype for a classic version of WoW with TBC. They did not even mention Classic in the Quarterly Report anymore (beside a comparison to the Classic launch) and that is a very bad sign.

    But they still have to find a way to keep every customer happy someway. Those five to ten that will keep playing the Classic version, those that gonna jump to TBC etc.

    I expect like 1 to 2 of the only crowded servers of Classic per region to stay as they are while the rest will become TBC servers.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Tronski View Post
    So it only works one way? If I don't see people on retail, my server is bad, but if your friend don't see people on his Classic server, that's definite proof Classic is dead?

    I play on a medium pop server, and it's thriving. Players everywhere, world chat going constantly and the economy is healthy.
    In comparison, across Europe, including Russia, there's 5 Low pop servers. Five.

    That doesn't resonate with your "everyone complaining about Classic being dead"-Claim.

    You want it to be dead because you didn't like it. Easy as that. I think you're just festering in confirmation bias each time you manage to dig up a post about it.
    Compared to the sheer number of servers on retail that are either high or full, Classic is far more barren. I don't say it's dead because I don't like it. I say it's dead because for the most part it is. But the toxic Classic rabid fans refuse to admit it because then they'd have to admit they were wrong about something for once.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by kukkamies View Post
    Like already repeated. You do need two different subs for RS3 and OSRS unless you are a brainlet beyond belief. It's a game that's passive. With only one sub you are gimping yourself hard, you cannot really have 2 mains with only one subscription. You can dabble sure, to try it out, but to focus on both games needs two subs.
    Nobody said anything about efficiency.

    The fact is, both subs are covered in both games. Efficiency is a different matter entirely, you get both subs for both games. You buy two subs? Congratulations, you now have four accounts - Two OSRS, and two RS3 which you can juggle between at will.

    RuneBuddy does not exist anymore, you cannot use it to bot. It's what OSBuddy used to be, now it's a legit client people used 5 years ago before Runelite. Now you use it if Runelite doesn't work for whatever reason.
    "Legit client" that is openly unsupported by Jagex for running programs against their ToU.

    There's a reason Runelite is supported - People quit enmasse when it was not. (Sound familiar? Like, what we've been fucking talking about this whole time?) But it still had to undergo a massive prune just to make itself work, which OSBuddy refused to do.

    The bots you would actually use are newer, more developed. Stuff like Tribot, Runemate? No idea which ones even work nowadays. Just like in Wow or RS3. Replaced by newer, harder to detect methods. The most advanced ones even use Neural Networks to do PVP and bossing.
    Nobody said newer bots didn't exist. What I said was, I could download the same bot as 10 years ago and it'd still work. And it does. You literally admit in your post you don't know if they work or not, so I don't know why you're trying to argue this point.

    But, taking my own advice, I don't play OSRS and haven't in years, so I'm dropping any point about the polls. Who knows what they've changed since I stopped playing, but I certainly wouldn't KEEP playing if they changed shit that they promised they wouldn't change. Sounds like you'd just take whatever they give you and twist it into "the spirit of" OS, so I don't know what kind of point you think you might have - You literally just made my case against Classic+ in one statement.

    I never said to do what OSRS did
    You just joined a conversation which started with a reply to, and I quote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Amarys View Post
    Runescape did it so why not WoW.
    and chose to take the side that was arguing in favor of that standpoint. So don't back out now sir.

    Only that continuing to TBC is the most boring option, it is a sensible option and the most likely to happen of course. I'm not denying that. Doesn't make it any less boring and lacking imagination. Like I've also repeated quite a few times I think? You really like repeating yourself hehe
    It isn't the most boring option. It's the only sensible one. I didn't say it was a sensible one, I said it was the only sensible one.

    So since you still don't get it, here it is again: Wow and Runescape are different. What barely manages to work for RS, doesn't necessarily work for WoW. Don't worry, I don't mind repeating it until it's cemented.
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2020-09-15 at 09:41 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malikath View Post
    And if you'd remember, the developers working on it were interested in also remaking vanilla according to the original intent. but i can see them rushing BC due to SLs and their stock being on a downward trajectory again.
    If what they've said for years is true, BC is less of a problem than vanilla was. There will be much less that they have to piece together. On top of that they've learned a lot doing Classic with respect to changing require data structures, etc. so all of that knowledge will be applicable where necessary with BC. BC really should be much less of a lift. I'm sure it will require some stuff to be done but it won't be anything like what they needed to build to make Classic work on their current infrastructure.
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  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Nobody said anything about efficiency.

    The fact is, both subs are covered in both games. Efficiency is a different matter entirely, you get both subs for both games. You buy two subs? Congratulations, you now have four accounts - Two OSRS, and two RS3 which you can juggle between at will.



    "Legit client" that is openly unsupported by Jagex for running programs against their ToU.

    There's a reason Runelite is supported - People quit enmasse when it was not. (Sound familiar? Like, what we've been fucking talking about this whole time?) But it still had to undergo a massive prune just to make itself work, which OSBuddy refused to do.



    Nobody said newer bots didn't exist. What I said was, I could download the same bot as 10 years ago and it'd still work. And it does. You literally admit in your post you don't know if they work or not, so I don't know why you're trying to argue this point.

    But, taking my own advice, I don't play OSRS and haven't in years, so I'm dropping any point about the polls. Who knows what they've changed since I stopped playing, but I certainly wouldn't KEEP playing if they changed shit that they promised they wouldn't change. Sounds like you'd just take whatever they give you and twist it into "the spirit of" OS, so I don't know what kind of point you think you might have - You literally just made my case against Classic+ in one statement.



    You just joined a conversation which started with a reply to, and I quote:

    and chose to take the side that was arguing in favor of that standpoint. So don't back out now sir.



    It isn't the most boring option. It's the only sensible one. I didn't say it was a sensible one, I said it was the only sensible one.

    So since you still don't get it, here it is again: Wow and Runescape are different. What works for RS, doesn't necessarily work for WoW. Don't worry, I don't mind repeating it until it's cemented.
    If you don't care about efficiency or actually playing both accounts at once sure. I still cannot see it as competition. You cannot juggle at will, you first have to logout of other game.
    That's the reason I paid for another subscription too for a while, so I can continue playing both accounts at same time.

    https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/...ts?oldschool=1 OSBuddy have fully complied with the rules within this statement. Seems supported to me. It did take them a month longer true.
    I do remember bitching when they were going to ban Runelite originally when it was new, but not anyone quitting. Who knew that making shit decisions would have people quit? It's good they didn't ban Runelite nor even implied it lately, but instead only gave rules that unofficial clients have to follow.

    And I said the same bot you had 10 years ago does not even exist. It does not work even if you found a link for it. You cannot even load the game with clients from 10 years ago.
    If you mean updated bots with old names, then I can think of Powerbot. The rest are all new I think. I can agree there that bots that keep getting updated do work.

    I don't care about any "spirit of" OS. If I can enjoy the game I'll play, if can't then I won't. There's already the "No changes to WoW is dead" thread since Blizzard changed things lmao. I have bad news about TBC for you if you think they won't change anything for good of the game.

    Am I Amarys? I just answered to the text in your post that was wrong. I don't care about what Amarys thinks WoW could do or couldn't. If you want to argue about WoW not doing what Runescape does you are free to tell him so more.

    Sure. The only sensible option. It's still the boring one. Many sensible options are boring. I want more excitement out of it.

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