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  1. #1

    I wish they did to races what they did with the Covenant system

    Thematically, while it's new and different, which is nice, I'd be far more into the story line if you were covenanted to your race, and developed resources that could boost your race (like anima - but something relevant for each race or multiple things), and you unlocked furher racial abilities and race-class based followers, with a lot of lore for the races.

    Now i know doing a system for every class and spec, in 23 different ways is unrealistic expactation. As cool as it sounds, but let's be frank while there are 23 different races, it's more like 13 raes, with 10 of them having sub races.

    And well you can actually group a lot of them together and end up having roughly about 4 major streams , just like the 4 covenants That would have identical abilities but possibly with different names. If you group them racially and thematically

    Blood elves, Night elves, Nigbhtborne, Void elves, Draenei, Lightforged - all share the same abilities

    Humans, Kul'tirans, Worgen, Forsaken - all share the same

    Dwarves, Dark Irons, Gnomes, Mecha gnomes Goblins, Vulpera

    Orcs, Mag'har, Tauren, Highmountain, Pandaren, Zandalari, Trolls

    If they were daring would could make it 6 instead, giving Draenei, Lightforged one of their own, and Trolls another

    This is basically how you organise them for all those different abilities, so it's just like 4 covenant, providing 4 paths for every spec. or 6 if you make Trolls and Draenei sepaated.

    There will be 4 or 6 major themed storylines, just like the 4 covenants, involving those collection of races, but things like your companions etc would all be racially based.

    And maybe something bonus like building your capital and your race's power as you progress would be a nice individual touch on race level rather than grouping level.
    Last edited by Beloren; 2020-09-11 at 12:45 PM.

  2. #2
    Mechagnome Wolfrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    Thematically, while it's new and different, which is nice, I'd be far more into the story line if you were covenanted to your race, and developed resources that could boost your race (like anima - but something relevant for each race or multiple things), and you unlocked furher racial abilities and race-class based followers, with a lot of lore for the races.

    Now i know doing a system for every class and spec, in 23 different ways is unrealistic expactation. As cool as it sounds, but let's be frank while there are 23 different races, it's more like 13 raes, with 10 of them having sub races.

    And well you can actually group a lot of them together and end up having roughly about 4 major streams , just like the 4 covenants That would have identical abilities but possibly with different names. If you group them racially and thematically

    Blood elves, Night elves, Nigbhtborne, Void elves, Draenei, Lightforged - all share the same abilities

    Humans, Kul'tirans, Worgen, Forsaken - all share the same

    Dwarves, Dark Irons, Gnomes, Mecha gnomes Goblins, Vulpera

    Orcs, Mag'har, Tauren, Highmountain, Pandaren, Zandalari, Trolls

    If they were daring would could make it 6 instead, giving Draenei, Lightforged one of their own, and Trolls another

    This is basically how you organise them for all those different abilities, so it's just like 4 covenant, providing 4 paths for every spec. or 6 if you make Trolls and Draenei sepaated.

    There will be 4 or 6 major themed storylines, just like the 4 covenants, involving those collection of races, but things like your companions etc would all be racially based.

    And maybe something bonus like building your capital and your race's power as you progress would be a nice individual touch on race level rather than grouping level.
    First I really like the essence of your idea and me my self have been thinking about it as well.

    I Hope you understand that these races have alot and very legit ways to hate eachothers so why would they hae the same abilities or form a covenant? I see your view point and understand what you mean, but this would invalidate so much of the Lore and background story of each race with each faction.

    Idea that we can build on your idea:

    How about this, every Faction have 5 Core races... it would be cool to build some kind of Order Hall or Covenant around them.

    For an example, as an Orc if you feel more alined with the forsaken mindset... you can join their Covenant with in the horde and get some extra story and maybe even abilities that follow more their mindset.

    Since the factions are a Core part of world of warcraft... have have to respect that they exist... and they will always do that, since azeroth is full of Hate, and it would be close to impossible to merge those 2 factions... with out huge Political and civil unrest.
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  3. #3
    Someone hire OP at blizz now. I’ve ALWAYS thought that they took a wrong turn in diminishing the significance of racials and the story-driven aspects and potential of each race. You want player agency? Make the decision that the player made upon character creation matter a lot more.

  4. #4
    Herald of the Titans msdos's Avatar
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    Yeah I like this. Take Covenants, starting scenarios, racial capitols, sub races and class halls and mash and meld all of it into one solid concept. I feel like if WoW were a single player RPG we would have some amalgamation like that already.

    They do a lot of plate spinning in this game though, they would need to go back to the round table and take another look at what should have resources diverted to it. For instance, diverting more resources to good quests would be nice.

  5. #5
    Could've been cool. That way the abilities and the soul binds could've stuck with us even after the shadowlands

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfrick View Post
    First I really like the essence of your idea and me my self have been thinking about it as well.

    I Hope you understand that these races have alot and very legit ways to hate eachothers so why would they hae the same abilities or form a covenant? I see your view point and understand what you mean, but this would invalidate so much of the Lore and background story of each race with each faction.

    Idea that we can build on your idea:

    How about this, every Faction have 5 Core races... it would be cool to build some kind of Order Hall or Covenant around them.

    For an example, as an Orc if you feel more alined with the forsaken mindset... you can join their Covenant with in the horde and get some extra story and maybe even abilities that follow more their mindset.

    Since the factions are a Core part of world of warcraft... have have to respect that they exist... and they will always do that, since azeroth is full of Hate, and it would be close to impossible to merge those 2 factions... with out huge Political and civil unrest.
    It’s a very good point you make. I was just thinking the essence of the idea.

    It won’t be an exact mirror of covenants , but like Oribos covenant has an ability stream, covenant of with any of the races in a category will yield those same abilities.

    Now the races in that category don’t have to be friends, but they are all involved in the same storyline hence the grouping is for the campaign and the abilities. You actually covenant to a race, the rep is with that race, not the grouping.

    The race also has its individual role in the campaign and while its part of the same plot stream so will share many quests with the others. It has its own individual quests and texts for some of the campaign.

    Also the abilities in each group while being the same sometimes will have different race appropriate names. Also the power you build for each race is unique even though the ability is the same.

    Example in Group 1 - the blood elves build towards the Sunwell in their covenant tree, but the Void elves to a Void stream, the Draenei to the Atam’al crsystals, the Night elves to Nordrassil or Well of Eternity etc. Because you are covenant to the race. Each patch can switch focus. So blood elves have the arcane side of the Sunwell focusing on the Magisters, first or second patch have the Light side focusing on the Sunsworn, 3 rd patch have the Ban’dinoriel focusing on the Farstriders.

    This being in extended abilities.

    The point to note is that every one in the same group has the same abilities so you are not balancing for 25 different groups for 2-4 specs even though each race has its unique story and the group has the campaign with different parts. They will interact and not always friendly sometimes it involves common threats that cause them to come together and sometimes conflict between each other.

  7. #7
    I've always wanted something like that. Even more focusing on the existing races already, instead of making allied races. They are seriously neglecting the classic races because of them.

    But it's too late now. Can't wait to not see any Vulperas, Mecha-gnomes, Void Elves or Nightborne in the cinematics. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post

    Dwarves, Dark Irons, Gnomes, Mecha gnomes Goblins, Vulpera
    what's their theme, being really smol?

  9. #9
    Now that I could get behind

    Except for the bit about simplifying to only four

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Xragusx View Post
    Someone hire OP at blizz now. I’ve ALWAYS thought that they took a wrong turn in diminishing the significance of racials and the story-driven aspects and potential of each race. You want player agency? Make the decision that the player made upon character creation matter a lot more.
    This resonates with me. I really feel a lot more agency when it gets more specific. Anonymous adventurer is too random, faction is too general, race has just the right amount of focus.

    Tbh it should be the primary focus of the world building MMO when it narrows down. Faction should be secondary.

    The big bad of each expansion should be something the story shows racial reactions alongside whatever Legendary characters are leading the charge I. Addition to their racial politics.

    Faction should be a side thing like in Legion highlighting a conflict between 2 races like it did forsaken and worgen in Legion or a pair of races, nothing more except for the once in a while expansion where it dominates.

    Random adventurer stuff goes on in the background via zonal quests and is second place to race.

    Race has the most individuality and character. It’s got the richness that makes you feel the most unique if only they would bolster it well beyond just miserly facials and make something like they did for covenants for the races.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fistfighter View Post
    what's their theme, being really smol?
    Dunno, just thought it would be easier to create a campaign that involves these races.

    This is if they split to 4 groups. If they split to 6

    I’d probably have Trolls, zandalari, Vulpera and Goblins

    Then have Dwarves/DIs, Gnomes/Mechas, Draenei/Lightforged

    Actually that’s 5 campaigns instead of 6.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post

    - - - Updated - - -



    Dunno, just thought it would be easier to create a campaign that involves these races.

    This is if they split to 4 groups. If they split to 6

    I’d probably have Trolls, zandalari, Vulpera and Goblins

    Then have Dwarves/DIs, Gnomes/Mechas, Draenei/Lightforged

    Actually that’s 5 campaigns instead of 6.
    I like the idea, but it doesn't have to be limited by already existing common themes of the races.
    Maybe it could be expanded so other races with not so much in common can have some screentime together. Let's say Night Elves and Gnomes have a campaing/covenant together, where they go on an adventure together, learn from their different ways, play of each other's opposites like a dynamic duo, and most importantly write some new previously unexplored lore/story possibilites together.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    Orcs, Mag'har, Tauren, Highmountain, Pandaren, Zandalari, Trolls
    What is the logic here? You have most major Horde races tossed into a faction, alright, but... Pandaren? Huojin, yes, but Tushui too?

    I was going to write up a concept about how the pandaren could justify having their own faction, what with them having an entire continent to themselves (with the corresponding population), but considering the playerbase population... I doubt that very much.


    If the factions split up, I could see something like

    Human Alliance: Humans, Kul Tirans

    Khaz Modan Confederation: dwarves+dark irons, gnomes+mechagnomes (Diplomatic friends with the humans, at least at the start, but independent)

    Outcast Empire: Forsaken, void elves, goblins (Void elves + forsaken feels natural as a match, both are users of really dark methods that makes nobody else really like them, and goblins tag along because profit has no morality)

    Remnant Horde: Orcs+Mag'har, Trolls+Zandalari+Vulpera, Tauren+Highmountain

    Highborne Empire: Blood elves, nightborne

    The Purifiers: Night elves, worgen, lightforged draenei


    I still don't know where I'd put the pandaren (for previously mentioned reasons) or the draenei, because they aren't zealous and warlike enough to fit with the Purifiers (who in this case would be built around being vengeful, scarred from past transgressions, and zealous).
    Last edited by Ashiraya; 2020-09-13 at 02:21 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashiraya View Post
    What is the logic here? You have most major Horde races tossed into a faction, alright, but... Pandaren? Huojin, yes, but Tushui too?

    I was going to write up a concept about how the pandaren could justify having their own faction, what with them having an entire continent to themselves (with the corresponding population), but considering the playerbase population... I doubt that very much.


    If the factions split up, I could see something like

    Human Alliance: Humans, Kul Tirans

    Khaz Modan Confederation: dwarves+dark irons, gnomes+mechagnomes (Diplomatic friends with the humans, at least at the start, but independent)

    Outcast Empire: Forsaken, void elves, goblins (Void elves + forsaken feels natural as a match, both are users of really dark methods that makes nobody else really like them, and goblins tag along because profit has no morality)

    Remnant Horde: Orcs+Mag'har, Trolls+Zandalari+Vulpera, Tauren+Highmountain

    Highborne Empire: Blood elves, nightborne

    The Purifiers: Night elves, worgen, lightforged draenei


    I still don't know where I'd put the pandaren (for previously mentioned reasons) or the draenei, because they aren't zealous and warlike enough to fit with the Purifiers (who in this case would be built around being vengeful, scarred from past transgressions, and zealous).
    It was just a sample - you can split them on various factors.

    The one I exampled was based on racial lines and racial connections and similarities. For example while Draenei are not related to elves they make their group because they are magical and advanced civilisation.

    But in another configuration you will notice I put Draenei with dwarves and gnomes/goblin because they are advanced technology and their light influence could make that group interesting.

    You could also split them according to geoagraphic location / zones

    Example:
    Humans, Forsaken, Thalassians, Gilneans, Kul’Tiras, Lightforged

    Stormwind, Daarves, Dark Irons, Gnomes, Mechagnomes

    Night elves, Nightborne, Tauren, Highmountain, Draenei (Broken isles and North/west Kalimdor


    IRC’s, Tauren, Trolls, Goblins, Zandalari and Vulpera


    While the major plots happen within the geoagraphic location the parts that deal with your individual will take you to other locations before eventually leading back.

    Your way of splitting works too. The bunching up is only for a campaign story and doing covenant abilities so you are not doing 35 specs for each of the 23 races.

    You simply give each race a unique ability names, cos you are building covenant with the race not the group - it’s just all in your group would have the same abilities even if some have different names and blood elves are boosting the Sunwell, while Night elves the Well of Eternity

  14. #14
    Okay but hear me on this.

    Instead of regrouping similar races into vague groups to give abilities specific to classes, what if we got abilities specific to a character, depending on the race they play ?

    And what if, instead of having to commit to one of the faction, we could discover their stories just by playing in the zones they inhabit ?

    How cool and not too far-fetched would that be ?

    Jokes aside, your ideas look like exclusive lvling experiences and convoluted racial talents. And I mean, even if it is not about racial abilities and more about cultural abilities, weirdly regrouping races just undermines the point.

    Then again, I would have loved for BFA to be a Legion expac where instead of class campaigns, you get race campaigns (even if just for the core ones).

  15. #15
    I imagine we will see some focus on races in 10.0. We had focus on classes in Legion, factions in BfA and now zones/reps in Shadowlands.

    Unless of course they go dragons.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  16. #16
    So shared racials, ok so far, and that's about the only thing you really suggest, but anything that further divides the playerbase, which is already sectioned into Horde and Alliance, Warmode on and off (for outdoor content) gets a resolute No from me.

    Regarding quests, having 4 different campaigns for the Covenants for Shadowlands is ok, but repeating that for every expansion, to keep those "race covenants" alive, will get stale very soon, both for the developers and the players.
    But your duty to Azeroth is not yet complete. More is demanded of you... a price the living cannot pay.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathanyel View Post
    So shared racials, ok so far, and that's about the only thing you really suggest, but anything that further divides the playerbase, which is already sectioned into Horde and Alliance, Warmode on and off (for outdoor content) gets a resolute No from me.

    If you ask me, splitting up the factions can just be accompanied by slapping 'game mechanics' on it and decide that endgame content is faction agnostic, justifying it with mercenaries or whatever.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Okay but hear me on this.

    Instead of regrouping similar races into vague groups to give abilities specific to classes, what if we got abilities specific to a character, depending on the race they play ?

    And what if, instead of having to commit to one of the faction, we could discover their stories just by playing in the zones they inhabit ?

    How cool and not too far-fetched would that be ?

    Jokes aside, your ideas look like exclusive lvling experiences and convoluted racial talents. And I mean, even if it is not about racial abilities and more about cultural abilities, weirdly regrouping races just undermines the point.

    Then again, I would have loved for BFA to be a Legion expac where instead of class campaigns, you get race campaigns (even if just for the core ones).
    That could also work. Abilities based on race not group would be an extended racial system. So it could be like Legion class order and artifact weapons but instead it’s race wither capitals and racial power like the Sunwell replacing the artifact weapon. M
    That would also work. It won’t be as convoluted as covenants, but you’d still be providing class and spec abilities also but they’d have the dynamism of an extensive racial Abilities enhanced system. Even if some were copies.

    You’d be doing it for 13 races or 23 if you add allied races separately but that’s a huge undertaking which might reduce how powerful the story is, so it would be better to pair allied races with their genetic counterpart and tell a combined story campaign so it really isn’t 23 but 13

    Ofc you would have distinctions between the allied race and core race. For example Void elves won’t be empowering the Sunwell but some void font of power, which would mirror the Sunwell’s abilities but be void versions.


    Another approach would be to separate the racial powers according to groups.

    Example while Elves have fonts of power - from Well of Eternity, Sunwell, Void Well, Nightwell 2.0 which has the Arcan’dor growing out of it to ensure the past never repeats.

    You can also have Humans, Dwarves , Gnomes, Goblins get a titan based power

    MOrcs and Draenei - Atamal crystals. 3 found with the IRC’s, 3 with the Draenei. Etc


    This is a way to streamline how you do the artifact/covenant.

    To streamline your process while providing as much diversity.


    There are many ways you could cut it.

    They are the experts, I would just love if they put the effort they put into covenants into races instead.

  19. #19
    Elemental Lord GreenJesus's Avatar
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    This would be pretty cool if Blizzard didn't make the mistake of allied races bloat with the number of playable races now diminishing the focus on the core races of warcraft. Blizzard should have been more conservative on what is considered an "allied race" and what is just a customization option or just races we happen to meet in foreign lands. Not everything has to be a playable race. All this does is force blkzzard to feature more and more races / characters in EVERY scene or "why isn't my race being represented" complaints will happen and blizzard gets stuck with dozens of races to keep track of. Blood elves still have Silvermoon stuck in 2006 and they want to introduce more races? Lol fuck off.
    Last edited by GreenJesus; 2020-09-13 at 07:56 PM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Fistfighter View Post
    what's their theme, being really smol?
    Technology affinity would work.

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