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  1. #161
    Pit Lord Mrbleedinggums's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texan Penguin View Post
    I had to turn Doom Eternal down to "Too Young to Die" to fight the final boss and I'm satisfied. I've been stuck on the fight for probably a week or two now, and on the game as a whole for nearly three months, and I just wanted to be done. Even on TYTD it was still pretty intense, though.

    In general, is there any shame in playing games on easy? Maybe it was just because Eternal was so mentally exhausting and (literally) headache-inducing to me that I finally needed to dial it down a little- 99% of the time I just play games on normal and they aren't nearly as intense.
    If the difficulty is worthwhile, I'll play it on hardest difficulty. If the difficulty only means that the enemies just have more hp/damage, and have stupid combos that cannot be avoided or make the game a headache rather than enjoyable content to overcome, then I won't play it on hardest difficulty.

    Case in point: Assassin's Creed Odyssey. Playing it on hardest difficulty wasn't a challenge, it was just tedious and mind-numbing. Not to mention, when you'd die because of a stupid mechanic or ability the enemy it just didn't feel worthwhile. Witcher 3 I played on Death March and enjoyed it because even if you could die easily, you had multiple paths of being able to take on monsters and felt like if you mastered the game then you could have an enjoyable battle.
    "Why of course the people don't want war…. But, after all… it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

  2. #162
    Legendary! TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    No, I'm not. Im arguing that not all options have to apply to you personally. If you just want a default experience playing a game than "Normal" is the only option you need to concern yourself with.
    How many different ways to I need to express this before you comprehend this? I cannot ignore facts simply because I find them objectionable, I cannot engage in self-delusion by pretending a choice doesn't exist when a choice exists. No matter how many ways you try to frame it, the fundamental fact of multiple difficulty options existing and most games mandating that you select a difficulty when starting a game means you are required to make a choice of which difficulty to play on before playing a game, or you're limited to playing games that either don't offer difficulty options or don't force you through a difficulty select menu prior to starting a game.

    What you are asking me to do is to pretend that something doesn't exist, when it does exist, because it is inconvenient for me. You are asking me to lie, to myself. What you're asking of me is as unreasonable to me as if I were to ask you to stop thinking, it is practically impossible.


    It is a simple fact that, for me, the existence of difficulty options can be a decisive factor in whether or not I enjoy a game. Not every game handles difficulty settings the same way, some just do a simple numbers pass changing the health and damage multipliers, while others alter the gameplay itself. Having to deal with sorting through that additional information can be a chore, to the point where a game stops being fun because I'm too busy trying to figure out exactly what the difficulty settings are changing and then trying to figure out which difficulty would be the most enjoyable for me.


    Just accept the fact that the existence of difficulty options can be a large enough issue to ruin a game for me, and there is literally no argument you can make that will change this. I don't go around demanding that games have their difficulty options be removed, so I think it is fair that I ask people to not demand difficulty options be added to games that lack them.
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    Intelligence is like four wheel drive, it's not going to make you unstoppable, it just sort of tends to get you stuck in more remote places.
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    If you want to be disgusted, next time you kiss someone remember you've got your mouth on the end of a tube which has shit at the other end, held back by a couple of valves.

  3. #163
    normal is the new easy, most games are more fun in harder difficulties
    For me it's quite the opposite, if I never die/lose in a game, I'm frustrated

    I dont really understand people who don't like challenges in games (except for story oriented games). That's why most people like PvP games (fortnite, lol,..)

    ALL games need some of difficulty slider, or some people wont like it, thus less sales.

    Wow with only mm+ and hm+ raids would lose a lot of subs, same for wow with only heroic dungeons and normal raid (thats why I'm not a fan of classic/vanilla anymore)

    If a battle system is not enjoyable, I dont even try easy, I just drop the game... it means it's a bad game anyway
    Last edited by vashe9; 2020-09-14 at 04:23 PM.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    Look, we don't agree. That's fine. I don't expect everyone to. I just think it's hypocritical for others to label me as selfish for wanting a game without difficulty sliders; It's been proven to work well with multiple franchises and I have my reasons to prefer it. I don't believe that more difficulties are always a good thing, though I will admit that it has its place. I don't see the point in arguing it further.
    I can agree that not all games even need a difficulty slider. There are games that, as you said, the difficulty can be controlled in game by decisions the player makes. I'm just saying that the existence of that slider should not be something that detracts from your experience. Play Skyrim on Legendary. Play it on Normal. Play it on any difficulty you like. Just don't insist that should be the only option for how other people play Skyrim.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    I can agree that not all games even need a difficulty slider. There are games that, as you said, the difficulty can be controlled in game by decisions the player makes. I'm just saying that the existence of that slider should not be something that detracts from your experience. Play Skyrim on Legendary. Play it on Normal. Play it on any difficulty you like. Just don't insist that should be the only option for how other people play Skyrim.
    It is something that detracts from my experience though, it can even be the factor regarding whether or not I buy a game in the first place. I have no problem with how others play games, but putting a slider in DOES take away from my experience, it's not really an opinion; It does.

    Dark Souls would never have received it's level of infamy if its current iteration was only found on the 'super ultra hard mode' while 3 easier modes existed below it. It would have been a very average game at best and I likely wouldn't have even attempted it. I just genuinely believe that games are flat-out improvements when developers focus on the one difficulty rather than 5; I feel that 'normal' mode is designed to be easy enough that anyone can beat it and 'hard' and 'easy' mode are an after-thought with percentage modifiers.

    It just doesn't feel good to me and it greatly influences my decision on whether or not i'll purchase a game or how much I'll enjoy it.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    It is a simple fact that, for me, the existence of difficulty options can be a decisive factor in whether or not I enjoy a game. Not every game handles difficulty settings the same way, some just do a simple numbers pass changing the health and damage multipliers, while others alter the gameplay itself. Having to deal with sorting through that additional information can be a chore, to the point where a game stops being fun because I'm too busy trying to figure out exactly what the difficulty settings are changing and then trying to figure out which difficulty would be the most enjoyable for me.
    Any game that does not have difficulty sliders is automatically set to "Normal". Adding "Easy" or "Hard" does not change what the default experience would be. By choosing to play at "Normal" you are choosing to play at the difficulty the game would be even if those other choices were not included. The only "choice" you are making by choosing "Normal" is that you are choosing not to make changes to that default level of difficulty. In a functional sense it is no different than there not being those other options.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    It is something that detracts from my experience though, it can even be the factor regarding whether or not I buy a game in the first place. I have no problem with how others play games, but putting a slider in DOES take away from my experience, it's not really an opinion; It does.

    Dark Souls would never have received it's level of infamy if its current iteration was only found on the 'super ultra hard mode' while 3 easier modes existed below it. It would have been a very average game at best and I likely wouldn't have even attempted it. I just genuinely believe that games are flat-out improvements when developers focus on the one difficulty rather than 5; I feel that 'normal' mode is designed to be easy enough that anyone can beat it and 'hard' and 'easy' mode are an after-thought with percentage modifiers.

    It just doesn't feel good to me and it greatly influences my decision on whether or not i'll purchase a game or how much I'll enjoy it.
    I'm just saying that putting an "easy" mode in Dark Souls would have no bearing on "Normal". Normal would still be the "Super Ultra Hard Mode" that it is.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    I don't want the choice.
    I don't want to have an option, therefore nobody should? Whaaaat?

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    I don't want to have an option, therefore nobody should? Whaaaat?
    Read my other posts, that's not what I'm saying.

    My general point is that there's a place for games without sliders as much as there's a place for games with them. Having options can take away from the game-play experience for a lot of people, it's not as easy as telling me to just play on hard or normal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Any game that does not have difficulty sliders is automatically set to "Normal". Adding "Easy" or "Hard" does not change what the default experience would be. By choosing to play at "Normal" you are choosing to play at the difficulty the game would be even if those other choices were not included. The only "choice" you are making by choosing "Normal" is that you are choosing not to make changes to that default level of difficulty. In a functional sense it is no different than there not being those other options.

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    I'm just saying that putting an "easy" mode in Dark Souls would have no bearing on "Normal". Normal would still be the "Super Ultra Hard Mode" that it is.
    Right, but having the easy mode there would make people pick that one instead of the super ultra hard mode when things got tough, rather than looking for an in-game solution.
    Last edited by Zypherz; 2020-09-14 at 04:44 PM.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    Right, but having the easy mode there would make people pick that one instead of the super ultra hard mode when things got tough, rather than looking for an in-game solution.
    Some people...sure...but you don't have to worry about what other people would do. You've set your sights on playing at the default level of difficulty.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Some people...sure...but you don't have to worry about what other people would do. You've set your sights on playing at the default level of difficulty.
    I would put it on the hardest difficulty, like previously stated.

    Then there would be an absurdly hard enemy that's ridiculously over-tuned (potentially because the developers haven't put the time in to balance all of the modes), and I would have to deal with the constant temptation of turning the difficulty down rather than working out how to beat him. If there's one balanced difficulty, I would likely not meet such an over-tuned enemy to begin with but, if I did, I would have to just figure it out.

    I feel like we're going in circles here. I don't care what other people do. I prefer games with one difficulty, it can be ball-crushingly hard or a story-mode cakewalk, I just believe better games CAN come of it, though I can see where sliders are good.

    This is really frustrating. I'm not saying that sliders shouldn't exist, I'm saying that games without sliders are more appealing to me (for a plethora of reasons that i've listed) and I wish that more of them DID exist. Saying that I can pick a difficulty and it'll be the same thing is just false.
    Last edited by Zypherz; 2020-09-14 at 04:55 PM.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    Read my other posts, that's not what I'm saying.

    My general point is that there's a place for games without sliders as much as there's a place for games with them. Having options can take away from the game-play experience for a lot of people, it's not as easy as telling me to just play on hard or normal.

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    Right, but having the easy mode there would make people pick that one instead of the super ultra hard mode when things got tough, rather than looking for an in-game solution.

    Had to go back because I skipped 2 pages of the thread. Anyhow

    Regarding that last part. Why would it matter if somebody switched difficulty when it gets too tough to bypass things? If I do that just now in my living room on my TV screen, how would that affect you? I'm not talking about Dark Souls (Because it was mentioned before that it has a multiplayer mode, to which I offered a solution).

    Just because"you don't want the choice in your mind" doesn't mean that there shouldn't be one. If you want to complete the game in hard-mode only then by all means do it. If you think you might switch the difficulty at some point, destroying your whole "experience", then you need more self control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    I would have to deal with the constant temptation
    How can this even be a thing?

  12. #172
    Depending on the game, I'll choose normal or easy. I'm usually more interested in the story or overall experience, rather than challenging myself in my off time. Many games aren't challenging, and more frustrating on higher difficulties anyway.
    3 hints to surviving MMO-C forums:
    1.) If you have an opinion, someone will say that it is wrong
    2.) If you have a source, there will be people who refuse to believe it
    3.) If you use logic, it will be largely ignored
    btw: Spires of Arak = Arakkoa.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    Had to go back because I skipped 2 pages of the thread. Anyhow

    Regarding that last part. Why would it matter if somebody switched difficulty when it gets too tough to bypass things? If I do that just now in my living room on my TV screen, how would that affect you? I'm not talking about Dark Souls (Because it was mentioned before that it has a multiplayer mode, to which I offered a solution).

    Just because"you don't want the choice in your mind" doesn't mean that there shouldn't be one. If you want to complete the game in hard-mode only then by all means do it. If you think you might switch the difficulty at some point, destroying your whole "experience", then you need more self control.

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    How can this even be a thing?
    I don't care what other people do and it's not like I'm trying to detract from anyone else's experience. I'm not saying that every game should be frustratingly hard, just that they should be balanced. Hundreds of casual-friendly games have released without difficulty sliders and they've been overwhelmingly successful, I find great joy in them myself.

    I TEND to find less joy in games with multiple difficulties that I can change on the fly, it just gives me the constant voice in the back of my head saying "what's the point?" whenever things get tough. I will usually just push through it because i'm stubborn, but often the frustration comes from the fact that the higher difficulties are unfairly difficult, because it just hasn't been balanced well enough and it's an after-thought.

    A challenge can be fun, but often-times the multiple difficulty sliders just lead to a 'hard' mode that requires you to cheese your way through it, barely playing the game the way it was intended to be played (Halo Legendary comes to mind).
    Last edited by Zypherz; 2020-09-14 at 05:09 PM.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    . Saying that I can pick a difficulty and it'll be the same thing is just false.
    Playing the game on Normal is exactly the same as playing that same game without a slider. "Easy" and "Hard" are modifiers that are based on that "Normal" setting.

    You being seemingly unable to play a game that isn't at set at the highest difficulty imaginable is something entirely self-inflicted. If you feel that you need to play every game at the highest possible difficulty... I don't see how the temptation of lowering that difficulty can even exist for you.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Playing the game on Normal is exactly the same as playing that same game without a slider. "Easy" and "Hard" are modifiers that are based on that "Normal" setting.

    You being seemingly unable to play a game that isn't at set at the highest difficulty imaginable is something entirely self-inflicted. If you feel that you need to play every game at the highest possible difficulty... I don't see how the temptation of lowering that difficulty can even exist for you.
    But you're just making the assumption that normal would be the same difficulty if different difficulties didn't exist. I disagree.

    If you go back further in this thread; My original post was that I enjoy a challenge but if I know i'm only in it for the story, I will put it on a normal or easy difficulty. I don't always feel the need for it to be super hard.

    I don't think sliders are always bad, I just think that games can be better without them without taking anything away. You can make games challenging without relying on a slider while still making the game accessible to the masses.
    Last edited by Zypherz; 2020-09-14 at 05:13 PM.

  16. #176
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Then don't make the choice. Play on the default difficulty and don't change it.
    Kinda reminds me of that guy in Skyrim who went out of his way to make a mod to disable fast travel.

    Like dude . . . just don't use it . . .

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    But you're just making the assumption that normal would be the same difficulty if different difficulties didn't exist. I disagree.
    Because that's how games are designed. You have to have a "Normal" setting to determine what an "Easy" or "Hard" setting means. Dark Souls was designed to be very difficult...but adding an easier or harder game mode to that would not change how difficult the "Normal" mode is.

    Also, if you go back further in this thread; My original post was that I enjoy a challenge but if I know i'm only in it for the story, I will put it on a normal or easy difficulty. I don't always feel the need for it to be super hard.
    Well, to me you specifically said that you have to play Skyrim on Legendary difficulty because you are too stubborn not to.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    I would have to deal with the constant temptation of turning the difficulty down
    and

    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    if I know i'm only in it for the story, I will put it on a normal or easy difficulty. I don't always feel the need for it to be super hard.
    You're contradicting yourself. You use the option, but for some reason condemn it.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    and



    You're contradicting yourself. You use the option, but for some reason condemn it.
    I would still prefer for there to be no difficulty in the latter quotes case.

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    Can't keep arguing this right now, got places to be. Please just understand that I don't wish to make games less accessible to players, I'm just trying to convey why I prefer games without a slider. I totally get why not everyone will agree with me, just that there are negatives to having multiple difficulties.

    I would wish for an RPG's difficulty to be designed with Breath of the Wild in mind, rather than Skyrim, that's all. I just think it's better. It's never fun trying to argue across an unpopular opinion.

  20. #180
    With the limited amount of time I have to play so many different games I want to experience, I have no qualms with cheesing on the easiest difficulty.

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