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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Everything you said is true.

    But it is not the entire truth, because you conveniently ignore the moral structures that I just explained above. Not all society is run by religion, and we have many countries that are run by secular states. We celebrate, mourn and fear death because it is a part of our lives and our cycle; it is inescapable and survival is a great motivator to live and find meaning to our lives. Yet we're shown in the shadowlands that the ones who govern their society do not celebrate, mourn or fear death in the same way as we do; and those who do are considered outliers of Shadowlands society. If you're going to talk about countries in any fashion, then you need to regard the moral ethics that define them. And no country is defined strictly by death and torture, no religion mandates such. Every instance of that existing in our world is an exception to the rule, not the rule itself as you are trying to argue.

    There's a difference between it being socially acceptable to have a 5-second rule of eating food that just fell to the floor, and a society where food is served and eaten off the floor. Death is a part of our society, but our society does not revolve around death.
    I still disagree.
    Most of what we do in our life revolves around not wanting to die.

    Torture i can agree on. Its not really an integral part of most societies.
    There's a difference between it being socially acceptable to have a 5-second rule of eating food that just fell to the floor, and a society where food is served and eaten off the floor.
    I didnt say our society revolves around us wanting to die or being in the act of dying. I said it revolves around death.

  2. #182
    When souls are "destroyed" they go to the Nexus to play Heroes of the Storm, this is cannon lol.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

    - Sire Denathrius confirmed to have created the Dreadlords.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    I didnt say our society revolves around us wanting to die or being in the act of dying. I said it revolves around death.
    Except it doesn't revolve around death.

    Our societies are generally concerned with the wellbeing of humanity as a means to prosper. Where death is concerned, historically it is used as a means of control and order. Punishment by death is a means to make an example of those who do not follow the laws. War as a means of expanding territory or conquering foes. It is not what our society revolves around; economic and population growth is what drives society.

    Even if certain civilizations were built on 'methods of death', they are not driven by them. Even if our society continues to use these as methods, it is not driven by it. We are economy-based, we are morally driven, and that is how most societies aim to be. We are wholly interested in survival, but our society frowns upon it being at the sake of other lives. Like I said, motivation by death is an exception to the rule, not the rule itself. Our society doesn't function through fear of death, it functions under the ideals of prosperity. Same can be applied to religion; death is used to inspire fear and respect but the primary goal of most religions is promoting morality, and simply generalizing it down to revolving around death is twisting the ideals for the sake of argument.

    Shadowlands does not have those same functions in their societies. Shadowlands is portrayed as multiple realms all tasked with a certain role in the cycle of death. You could say it is a parallel to our own society *IF* it revolved around death, but to say our society revolves around it now is simply ignorant. To me, your argument sounds like you're trying to make an argument that the sun revolves around the earth without taking a good, hard look at how things actually work.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2020-09-17 at 05:39 PM.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Except it doesn't revolve around death.

    Our societies are generally concerned with the wellbeing of humanity as a means to prosper. Where death is concerned, historically it is used as a means of control and order. Punishment by death is a means to make an example of those who do not follow the laws. War as a means of expanding territory or conquering foes. It is not what our society revolves around; economic and population growth is what drives society.

    Even if certain civilizations were built on 'methods of death', they are not driven by them. Even if our society continues to use these as methods, it is not driven by it. We are economy-based, we are morally driven, and that is how most societies aim to be. We are wholly interested in survival, but our society frowns upon it being at the sake of other lives. Like I said, motivation by death is an exception to the rule, not the rule itself. Our society doesn't function through fear of death, it functions under the ideals of prosperity. Same can be applied to religion; death is used to inspire fear and respect but the primary goal of most religions is promoting morality, and simply generalizing it down to revolving around death is twisting the ideals for the sake of argument.

    Shadowlands does not have those same functions in their societies. Shadowlands is portrayed as multiple realms all tasked with a certain role in the cycle of death. You could say it is a parallel to our own society *IF* it revolved around death, but to say our society revolves around it now is simply ignorant. To me, your argument sounds like you're trying to make an argument that the sun revolves around the earth without taking a good, hard look at how things actually work.
    I cant say i agree with you.

    Societies in general care about themselves.
    We act like we care internationally, but we dont. Not really. The only reason we care about anything outside our society is because it might at some point affect our society.

    We can sit here and argue forever but we wont get anywhere when our premise isnt the same.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    I cant say i agree with you.

    Societies in general care about themselves.
    We act like we care internationally, but we dont. Not really. The only reason we care about anything outside our society is because it might at some point affect our society.

    We can sit here and argue forever but we wont get anywhere when our premise isnt the same.
    Who said this has anything to do with international?

    Our laws and moral structures are in place to govern our own societies. Different nations have different rules. I don't see how you are bridging this to international when I'm talking about how societies are governed through their own set of moral ethics, not just through torture and fear of death.

    The Shadowlands seems to portray societies that treat souls the same way we treat farm animals; as potential food. The difference is that the souls themselves contribute and are a part of those societies; people like Draka and Uther. Others, like Garrosh or Ursoc, are literally used as food.

    Our societies don't gain any real benefit from killing our own kind. Death is used as a means of control and order. We're shown that the Shadowlands has a direct benefit from consuming souls, since souls are comprised of Anima. They will freely tap into this as a resource with no moral issues. Those who do have moral issue with it are considered the outliers. The rules for death and torture are completely different to our regard of life within our own societies.

    You are asserting that Shadowlands societies are no different than our own. Well yes, there is a difference - they can kill and torture their citizens as a means for food.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2020-09-18 at 06:55 PM.

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