[Theory] The Nathrezim and the Vassal of Life Part 2

[ro9ue]

Part 2 of my closed thread:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...Vassal-of-Life
Also:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...on-t-trust-him

I think I have a pretty good idea of who the Jailer and the "Vassal of Life" are. I have a TL;DR at the bottom if you don't care to read the whole thing.

So in my old thread, before the announcement of Shadowlands and the subsequent datamining, I had a hunch it was the Nathrezim who were the "cunning ones" in the il'gynoth whisper "The cunning ones kneel before six masters, but serve only one". Now that Shadowlands is being datamined... it appears this may be right. Wowhead has a good write up of all the new info that lends credence to the theory here: https://www.wowhead.com/news=317959/...dowlands-lore-

In my original thought about the Vassal of Life, I may have been right it was deception by the Nathrezim... but I was wrong that it was Malfurion -- wishful thinking I suppose. In the datamined material the life agent is identified with a "her" pronoun.

Wasn't really sure where to go with that until I started thinking about ICC / Icecrown... now front and center, it's clear they used a few morsels of this area to flesh out the entirety of the Shadowlands... even the 4 covenants.

We have Maldraxxus scourge architecture with the ziggurats of Scourgeholme... blood magic and vampirism of Revendreth with the San'layn and Blood-Queen Lana'thel... and even the Vrykul and Val'kyr present in Jotunheim. But wait.. where's the Ardenweald connection?

There is one. Valithria Dreamwalker.

She doesn't have eyes of green literally. But she is watching "a target" and is of the Green Dragonflight. This is our "Vassal of life that disguises treachery". And she planted the Remnant of the Void we find after the fight with Xavius.

Proof - check 1:00


Couple of additional points:

WC3 ended with the frozen throne being just atop a giant ice pillar. ICC was built around it. It has a striking resemblance to the maw architecture... and was supposedly built with Saronite... blood of an old god. I think the 'container' of ICC's architecture being made of Saronite was used to help corrupt the ED.

We see Dreamwalker in ICC without much context, we just assume htey want to kill her and turn her into a frost wyrm.

I say instead... they used her to enter the Emerald Dream / corrupt her / take on her form, and plant the seed which eventually became the Remnant of the Void that eventually gave us the Emerald Nightmare raid in Legion.

Remember... if the Nathrezim serve death... they just need to cause chaos and war. When things die... they win.

Ok so if you got this far...

to what end?

That brings me to the jailer. IMO the jailer is so similar to what nathrezim look like and Denathrius that I'm convinced he's the same species. We know their homeworld -supposedly- was destroyed. Let's assume that's true. I think they had a civilization that rivaled the Titans. And I think the King of this civilization was the Jailer... and he was such a dangerous entity he was jailed within the maw with the highest level security.

The remaining Nathrezim used deception to survive. But they all have the same goal... infiltrate all cosmic forces, civilizations or anything where power resides... cause strife and death... and FUNNEL that soul power to their King in the maw. They want to free him. And this is their strategy. Remain under the radar, make small but impactful moves.

- Give a soulstealing blade to a young human paladin (Frostmourne). The rune on Frostmourne matches the rune on the Jailer's head. I bet this acts like a conduit link between anything killed by Frostmourne and the Jailer so he can consume the power.
- Plant a small seed of the void in the Emerald dream (Remnant of the Void). RIP Ursoc

These small little efforts caused MASSIVE casualties, and they all fuel their King Vampire in the maw they are trying to free... The Jailer.

Other small notes:

- It doesn't surprise me that Sylvanas had Varimithras at her side for so long, maybe heard about some eternal vampire king and wanted that immortality for herself so, so bad.
- Emerald Nightmare felt kinda odd in the context of Legion... and we all know how codified and solidified the lore became around that time with Chronicles, audiobooks, comics, etc... would make sense for them to plant a (corrupted) seed at that time for a future expansion.


TL;DR:
Vassal of Life - Valithria Dreamwalker is an agent of the Dreadlords (or a Dreadlord) who planted a seed of corruption in Emerald Dream.
Jailer - King of the Nathrezim, a fallen ancient vampiric civilization, who is slowly being fed souls by his loyal agents throughout the cosmos.

K that's it for now.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I mean this is a good theory I just have doubts Dreamwalker is the one dragon that is a DL is hard sell. I mean if its true its cool but.. I dunno. I also don't know anyone else with green eyes.

[formerShandalay]

I don't think it can be any dragon from the dragonflights. Remember, the missive we talk about was written when the Titan Pantheon was still united (So before Sargeras came across the void corrupted world soul and met the dreadlords there), which was waaaaaay before the dragons got empowered and became the dragonflights.

Even if time in the Shadowlands flows differently than in the real world, that guy writing the plans/observations down is talking about a point in time within 'reality', so even if in the Shadowlands only a few minutes passed between that point and the making of the dragonflights, it still couldn't be, because at that point in time the operative was already gaining trust, not being sent there a few minutes later.
Unless of course she had a different form before and simply took on the disguise as Valithria Dreamwalker later.

I still think something is up with Malfurion. He never had green eyes before, but in the Darkshore cinematic he does. Also, he seems to have known about Ardenweald for a long time, or at least you could argue that the very far off and nightmarish plane in the Emerald Dream (which did not have an actual Emerald Nightmare at that point, because that came with Fandral Staghelm planting a tree on Yogg Saron's blood) may have been Ardenweald, that looked nightmarish from a living perspective. He put Xavius there and later the Worgen. If you watch the 'druid trees' that Worgen have, they have blue stuff flowing in them instead of green. They look more like Ardenweald than ED. Malfurion may not even have known what exactly he was doing there.
Maybe when Xavius snatched Malfurion in Val'sharah, he stowed him away somewhere and replaced him with a dreadlord, because Xavius made contact with the Jailer while he was imprisoned. So the Malfurion we save from the Nightmare and who somehow wasn't able to defend Darkshore wasn't Malfurion at all ^^

[Lucyx]

I think infiltrating the Void would be really hard. Powerful denizens of the Void see all possibilities, so I don't think the Dreadlords can actually infiltrate the armies of the Void.

So I doubt Valithria is a willing agent.

[formerShandalay]

I think infiltrating the Void would be really hard. Powerful denizens of the Void see all possibilities, so I don't think the Dreadlords can actually infiltrate the armies of the Void.

So I doubt Valithria is a willing agent.

Well, as the missive says, they might be found out and we know that they were at some point, because the Old Gods were warning us constantly about the imminent danger from Death.

[Darknessvamp]

That's Ysera in the video though not Valithria.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Well, as the missive says, they might be found out and we know that they were at some point, because the Old Gods were warning us constantly about the imminent danger from Death.

Gotta wonder how the Old Gods and or Void beings learn of such things. I mean are they privy to every single thing happening in the universe?

[ro9ue]

I don't think it can be any dragon from the dragonflights. Remember, the missive we talk about was written when the Titan Pantheon was still united (So before Sargeras came across the void corrupted world soul and met the dreadlords there), which was waaaaaay before the dragons got empowered and became the dragonflights.

Even if time in the Shadowlands flows differently than in the real world, that guy writing the plans/observations down is talking about a point in time within 'reality', so even if in the Shadowlands only a few minutes passed between that point and the making of the dragonflights, it still couldn't be, because at that point in time the operative was already gaining trust, not being sent there a few minutes later.
Unless of course she had a different form before and simply took on the disguise as Valithria Dreamwalker later.

I still think something is up with Malfurion. He never had green eyes before, but in the Darkshore cinematic he does. Also, he seems to have known about Ardenweald for a long time, or at least you could argue that the very far off and nightmarish plane in the Emerald Dream (which did not have an actual Emerald Nightmare at that point, because that came with Fandral Staghelm planting a tree on Yogg Saron's blood) may have been Ardenweald, that looked nightmarish from a living perspective. He put Xavius there and later the Worgen. If you watch the 'druid trees' that Worgen have, they have blue stuff flowing in them instead of green. They look more like Ardenweald than ED. Malfurion may not even have known what exactly he was doing there.
Maybe when Xavius snatched Malfurion in Val'sharah, he stowed him away somewhere and replaced him with a dreadlord, because Xavius made contact with the Jailer while he was imprisoned. So the Malfurion we save from the Nightmare and who somehow wasn't able to defend Darkshore wasn't Malfurion at all ^^

I think the last part of your second paragraph is the key. Assuming she is a Dreadlord, they would be referring to her (as a Nathrezim) and not the form she had taken during the time of ICC. She could've just been targetting Malfurion for a while, and chose Valithria as the means to get to her target. The book that is being referenced specifically says "her target". So there's really only one way this still works where Malfurion is the dreadlord... and that's the Nathrezim taking on his form is female. Seems totally reasonable.

However, I still think the agent is Valithria. In the video link I posted (around 1:00), we only saw a female green dragonlight member in elven form walking away from the area where the remnant is. Why would any green dragonflight member do that? My guess is this is a past vision of the Nathrezim agent disguised as a dragonflight member planting the seed of corruption, when Malfurion is sleeping and vulnerable.

- - - Updated - - -

That's Ysera in the video though not Valithria.

It does look like Ysera. Maybe the essence of the green dragon in ICC was drained, sort of like a Harry Potter polyjuice potion, and then her form was taken to plant the seed?

[formerShandalay]

I think the last part of your second paragraph is the key. Assuming she is a Dreadlord, they would be referring to her (as a Nathrezim) and not the form she had taken during the time of ICC. She could've just been targetting Malfurion for a while, and chose Valithria as the means to get to her target. The book that is being referenced specifically says "her target". So there's really only one way this still works where Malfurion is the dreadlord... and that's the Nathrezim taking on his form is female. Seems totally reasonable.

However, I still think the agent is Valithria. In the video link I posted (around 1:00), we only saw a female green dragonlight member in elven form walking away from the area where the remnant is. Why would any green dragonflight member do that? My guess is this is a past vision of the Nathrezim agent disguised as a dragonflight member planting the seed of corruption, when Malfurion is sleeping and vulnerable.

That vision was an echo of Ysera, or at least that's what it was named as. It also did not only walk away from it, but towards it, blinking in and out and pointing at the flower, once we followed her.
But! that doesn't negate your theory, of course. The operative may still be Valithria and Ysera may be warning us about it. Only she was already dead at that point and that vision only an echo, so she could not really communicate.

- - - Updated - - -

Gotta wonder how the Old Gods and or Void beings learn of such things. I mean are they privy to every single thing happening in the universe?

Well, if you look at every possible future and see them all as true, you at some point learn that Death makes a move sometime in one or more of these futures and does so from your domain. Boom, you know you've been infiltrated.

[ro9ue]

That vision was an echo of Ysera, or at least that's what it was named as. It also did not only walk away from it, but towards it, blinking in and out and pointing at the flower, once we followed her.
But! that doesn't negate your theory, of course. The operative may still be Valithria and Ysera may be warning us about it. Only she was already dead at that point and that vision only an echo, so she could not really communicate.

I think you may be right on that. It's definitely Ysera's model. If a Nathrezim didn't take her form and didn't plant it, it's possible once she got to the Shadowlands she became aware of the tomfoolery happening on Azeroth then projected herself to us.

[TigTone]

There is like no lore on Valithria, that alone makes her a candidate.

I have no idea who could it be, I’ll just throw a wild curve ball and say it’s Freya.

[formerShandalay]

You know, the more I think about this, the more it makes sense ^^

So if Valithria isn't actually a dragon at all, but a Nathrezim and was placed as an agent to infiltrate the realm of life by going through the Shadowlands, maybe she at one point found out that there was a better way, which was to actually serve life directly by impersonating a green dragon. Maybe there was a real Valithria Dreamwalker at some point (whom the operative impersonated), but maybe there wasn't and she simply went from the Shadowlands to Icecrown, posing as a captured green dragon. Ysera, who may have noticed something being amiss, was being attacked in the dream all the time and hardly even knew who was friend or foe during all of WotLK. We did not see anything of Valithria during Cata and later, did we? We only saw her again once Ysera was dead and her daughter took us to the dreamways. And she wasn't there at the entrance at the beginning with Merithra and Itharius, she is further in, where the green dragons are being attacked by the void and two of them lost hope and choose to die. She, however, is not under attack.

I mean, I know I may be spinning this a bit far, but I do find it curious

[Nagawithlegs]

I actually think it's the Thornspeaker representative in the Night's Court. She(?) has green eyes in her druid form and it would make sense that the evil person in the Night Fae covenant is someone linked to the Drust in some way.

[LemonDemonGirl]

I actually think it's the Thornspeaker representative in the Night's Court. She(?) has green eyes in her druid form and it would make sense that the evil person in the Night Fae covenant is someone linked to the Drust in some way.

The Drust are a bad thing in Ardenweald, so it does make sense. As long as it's not Bwonsamdi I'm good

[Harbour]

Valithra fits the idea if to think that Arthas was anti-Nathrezim. He might know that Valithra is Dreadlord or their servant so he kept he entrapped.

[Chronometer]

Valithra fits the idea if to think that Arthas was anti-Nathrezim. He might know that Valithra is Dreadlord or their servant so he kept he entrapped.

I thought Valithra was the daughter of Ysera, which means she did'nt appear out of "nowhere" so to speak. Doesn't mean she can't have been possessed of course.

[OCoyne]

This is massively overthought.

Five lanterns, now darkened. The flame they seek will light the masters' way.

Is most likely in correlation to the quote. The above quote probably references to the 5 Dragon aspects therefore

The vassal of life disguises treachery. Beware the eyes of green.

Is more than likely relating to the current De-facto leader of the Green and also child of Ysera, Merithra, she literally has green eyes also.


Sometimes the answer's right in front of you, and in this case, she is, standing there in the Chamber of Heart with her luminous eyes