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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by melzas View Post
    If it was the highes dps hunter spec and best for m+ and raiding you would see it everywhere.

    Proof? It's the best hunter 2v2 spec. Go arena 1800+ and look up how many surv hunters are there compared to other spec.
    It was the highest DPS hunter spec at various points in the last 4 years and still nobody played it.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Leakage View Post
    This argument really doesn't make sense when there are three talents in the entire survival tree that do anything with melee. Two of them is a defensive spell that only have uses in pvp. Besides that, there is NO additional melee benefits other than a flat 20% crit chance to two melee spells. The rest of the tree deals with traps, the 31 point talent is a ranged spell, and the offensive talents also boost ranged spells.

    Melee survival was a thing in vanilla beta and very early vanilla. It was quickly changed and the talents revamped to what they are on classic.
    I'm talking about the original vanilla talent tree, the one the game was released with. It was a melee spec.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by scrappybristol View Post
    why be survival hunter when BM does the same thing from range with easier and better results?
    and is more fun. and considering how simple bm is, that's saying something.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by aceperson View Post
    and is more fun. and considering how simple bm is, that's saying something.
    I don’t think that BM is more fun than Survival if you just look at the specs. But when you apply them to content, BM is just 1000 times more effective and most people will therefore find it more fun. Also, Hunter is simply a ranged class. Most people will expect you to be ranged in group content when you play a hunter. I don’t see a melee dps for hunter ever working no matter how fun it is. If people want to play melee they already play a Rogue.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    It was the highest DPS hunter spec at various points in the last 4 years and still nobody played it.
    Ok, I should clarify I don't mean "1% higher dps while other specs are perfectly viable anyway". I mean something like 2v2 hunter class representation which is "survival is one of the best specs in the game while BM is midpack and mm is dogshit".

  6. #146
    I quite enjoyed Legion Mage Tower as survival. But if I want to melee, I'm honestly drawn to enhance shaman. My vision of a survival class fantasy would be about having the ability to harpoon all over the place to hit various mobs or target points on the ground. Tons of mobility via harpoons.

    Last edited by Kokolums; 2020-09-16 at 09:29 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I want the ruins of K'aresh for 9.0 as I envision it as Netherstorm on steroids. A broken, shattered world. Eco-domes are stuck on various chunks to protect flora & fauna. I imagine a K'aresh ocean & maybe some islands contained in an eco dome or a snow-capped peak with some jungle valleys in another. Flesh version of Ethereals that never got altered. Space platforms as in Starcraft. Just a totally fantastic tileset & theme that I'd be very keen to explore. They could do some wild things.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I quite enjoyed Legion Mage Tower as survival. But if I want to melee, I'm honestly drawn to enhance shaman. My vision of a survival class fantasy would be about having the ability to harpoon all over the place to hit various mobs or target points on the ground. Tons of mobility via harpoons.

    [video]
    The Legion version of Survival you got towards the end when you had all the fun Legiondaries and stuff was really fun, getting movement speed buffs from harpooning, near infinite survivability if you had adds to kill, generally just running around constantly watchign enemies melt.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    I'm talking about the original vanilla talent tree, the one the game was released with. It was a melee spec.
    And Vanilla had more time, and ended, with the reworked survival tree. The original design doesn't matter since it couldn't even last halfway through vanilla because it didn't work.

  9. #149
    Survival can be kind of a meme too; especially when you die.

    “Haha I guess you couldn’t SURVIVE! Lololol”

    Which honestly is a solid point, defensive skills for a class spec that supposedly all about survival are quite hysterically absent.

    All they have is turtle shell and feign death. No ability to clear Debuffs and consistently avoid/prevent damage. Give them something unique, like remove all debuffs and 50% chance to dodge spell damage for 15 seconds. Deterrence coming back would be great too.

    Kill command needs to go away for survival. It’s not a fun ability to use; especially when your pet dies super easy and you can’t do any damage without spamming it to generate focus.

  10. #150
    Brewmaster Tiev's Avatar
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    I think the main thing about survival is that it gave players something they never asked for. So people, as a whole, play it as a novelty spec that quickly wears off because that's not why people pick hunters.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiev View Post
    I think the main thing about survival is that it gave players something they never asked for. So people, as a whole, play it as a novelty spec that quickly wears off because that's not why people pick hunters.
    I picked Hunter to play a class with a pet and I like the theme of Hunter over DK or Lock.
    I didn’t pick it because it was rdps, or to play SV, or BM, or MM or one over the other.
    Maybe that’s why these changes never seem to bother me as much as others. I also realize that if the game ever becomes not fun for me I’ll stop playing it. That might be because I hate how classes play (read: I can’t find a single one I like), it becomes P2W, raids/lore/etc become boring. Until then, I’m having fun.
    Last edited by Eapoe; 2020-09-16 at 02:46 PM.

  12. #152
    No, because i loved SV Hunter in Legion PvP. I had so much fun with my Nightelf Hunter + Catpet to defense or attacking bases, defending the flag an oneshotting the FC...

    Now its kinda meh...

    Dunno how he is in PvE, but Legion PvP was very very much fun.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by cozzri View Post
    Survival can be kind of a meme too; especially when you die.

    “Haha I guess you couldn’t SURVIVE! Lololol”

    Which honestly is a solid point, defensive skills for a class spec that supposedly all about survival are quite hysterically absent.

    All they have is turtle shell and feign death. No ability to clear Debuffs and consistently avoid/prevent damage. Give them something unique, like remove all debuffs and 50% chance to dodge spell damage for 15 seconds. Deterrence coming back would be great too.

    Kill command needs to go away for survival. It’s not a fun ability to use; especially when your pet dies super easy and you can’t do any damage without spamming it to generate focus.
    I find that one viable way to approach the spec other than just making the rotation more appealing is to consider giving the spec all the utility that would fit a survivalist ranger archetype.
    Passive movement speec buffs, with good sprint opportunities. Good self-heals. Damage reduction abilities aplenty.

    And honestly, what would really make Survival stand out is a unique buff they could get like givnig buffs to the part based on enemies killed. Maybe a tiny 30 second buff after killing an elemental, or leech after killing a beast. Not anything spectacular in the DPS department, but something so you really feel like you have a survivalist in the party.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiev View Post
    I think the main thing about survival is that it gave players something they never asked for. So people, as a whole, play it as a novelty spec that quickly wears off because that's not why people pick hunters.
    I would say the problem is not just that it is a novelty, it is that it doesnt have much to offer in terms of DPS that the other two specs don't already have, so you are not just banking on novelty, you want that novelty to overshadow the reasons you like the spec you normally play.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    I'm talking about the original vanilla talent tree, the one the game was released with. It was a melee spec.
    It wasn't a spec at all. Specs were introduced in Cataclysm. Anything we had before that was by design not meant to define our playstyle to any major degree. Anything we could get from talents was meant to be an addition to what the class was primarily designed to focus on by default. The default design elements, they promoted ranged gameplay over anything else and melee was only meant to be used situationally(for any case where it was harder to stay away from an enemy).

    The talents that did somehow improve melee for us, did not change the primary purpose of the class, that was ranged gameplay. And if you actually look at the talents from the original SV tree(with Lacerate at the top), it was the same thing. They did not serve to replace the default ranged abilities that were classwide.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    It was the highest DPS hunter spec at various points in the last 4 years and still nobody played it.
    Excuse you? I played solely survival until BM was so much better DPS-wise. Then it became a melee spec and I've never touched it.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    And honestly, what would really make Survival stand out is a unique buff they could get like givnig buffs to the part based on enemies killed. Maybe a tiny 30 second buff after killing an elemental, or leech after killing a beast. Not anything spectacular in the DPS department, but something so you really feel like you have a survivalist in the party.
    I feel having debuffs could be more fun and add to class fantasy. Bring back distracting shot; but make it cause the enemy to miss attacks for 5 seconds; a skill to fill a role for tank/healer assist; tank is low healers can’t keep up, hit them with distracting shot to buy some time to recover.

    Traps could be improved on as well; tar trap could boost magic damage taken in addition to its slow effect.

    Another annoying thing is some of the cool/fun party interaction talents are locked into PvP talents; which is a shame. Roar of Sacrifice, Trackers Net, Survival Tactics.... everything I talked about that Survival feels that it’s missing is designated PvP only.....

  17. #157
    Yes. It's fucking awful,

    the real annoying thing is MoP/WoD survival was the most fun hunter ever was for me - so we lost the best spec and got the worst

  18. #158
    Nah, I'd say the Disc rework was the worst.

  19. #159
    The Lightbringer Perkunas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leakage View Post
    This argument really doesn't make sense when there are three talents in the entire survival tree that do anything with melee. Two of them is a defensive spell that only have uses in pvp. Besides that, there is NO additional melee benefits other than a flat 20% crit chance to two melee spells. The rest of the tree deals with traps, the 31 point talent is a ranged spell, and the offensive talents also boost ranged spells.

    Melee survival was a thing in vanilla beta and very early vanilla. It was quickly changed and the talents revamped to what they are on classic.
    Seriously, if you were a melee Survival Hunter in Vanilla you were not doing it right. The tree was built to Survive when you were deadzoned long enough to get back to range and finish the target off.
    Stains on the carpet and stains on the memory
    Songs about happiness murmured in dreams
    When we both of us knew how the end always is...

  20. #160
    In my opinion it's a lot better then marksman spec or any rogue spec. Blood dk in bfa its tragic...

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