Is survival hunter the worst class revamp ever made?

[nigaogaki]

I liked surv, I feel like when they removed combat rogues and they changed it to outlaw was the worst one for me definitely.

[Mirishka]

No. It's great. The only thing that's wrong with it is that you can't dual wield.

Nailed it.

[Nemah]

I preferred it as ranged - explosive shot and black arrow and all that - but it is pretty fun to play. It just didn't "take hold" for the majority of the player base.

[Biglog]

I agree with the 2nd reply. In it's first iteration in wod when it was full melee it was actually kind of fun, played it quite a bit. But the later changes that made it semi-ranged ruined that, so that's why you rarely see them now. It's not that hunter melee survival didn't work. It was more that (as happens a lot in games, and in cooking too) survival melee was good but they kept messing with it to try to make it even better and ruined it.

The one other thing is that over that time some of the other melee classes/specs that were in bad shape then have improved also, and demon hunters were added. So you end up feeling like if I'm gonna play survival hunter melee, melee as dh or arms warrior is simply more fun and has more versatility.

[threads]

Where are people getting this information that it was widely played? Can’t find a number of parses looking at World of Logs, and Warcraftlogs shows a difference of 42k vs 7k, which I wouldn’t say was widely played. Not trying to say you’re wrong, just wondering where people are getting the numbers from for representation .

SV was arguably the best pve spec in cata. check some world first vids and SV will be there. It was also the best dungeon/challenge mode spec in mop.

[Gherothar]

I played it religiously during Legion. It became my new favorite Spec/Class.

BfA changes reverting it back to a Semi-Ranged basically ruined the spec fantasy, been Marks since.

I don't think Survival had issues as much as players had issues with Survival. And now it's both.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Legion Surv was a superb spec, but "muh gimmicky ranged" bullshit ruined it.

I hope they revert it back to full melee, and not like it is now, where it's just pointless and the spec fantasy is all over the place.

Why is it so god damn hard to implement a melee spec with the ranger/pathfinder fantasy for Blizz? Every single RPG out there since D&D has had that. There's a niche for it. Some people want it. Just make it work.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

All the coolest hunters in the lore dual wield, Nathanos, Sylvanas, Rexxar, Tyrande. Meanwhile survival is forced into 2h. That alone was a huge letdown for me.

[Shadowsgrace]

No, I'd say the Disc rework for Legion on, was the worst ever.

[Eapoe]

SV was arguably the best pve spec in cata. check some world first vids and SV will be there. It was also the best dungeon/challenge mode spec in mop.

So what you are saying is it had 1 xpac to be good and a 2nd xpac to be good in 1 specific type of content. The rest is memory. Got it.

[FuxieDK]

It's been four years since Legion revamped survival hunters, and since then I've barely seen them. I played this new spec for a while and I found it quite boring and pointless.

What are your thoughts on this spec? Why do you think nobody plays it?

Moonkin revamp is worse;

They revamp that spec, pretty much every expansion, and every one HATES those changes.

[threads]

So what you are saying is it had 1 xpac to be good and a 2nd xpac to be good in 1 specific type of content. The rest is memory. Got it.

2 xpacs being one of the most played hunter specs is pretty good vs 2 xpacs of melee spec being dead

[Kaver]

Surv will suffer as long as current BM exists. BM is basically a 40 yard melee since it has 0 cast times and doesn't take up melee spots.

Exactly. There really is no practical reason to play a melee spec instead of a BM hunter. If you choose a melee spec over a BM hunter you're simply just crippling yourself. BM hunter can do everything that a melee can but 40 yards away. In a fighting game, BM hunter would be that OP secret character with no downsides that you can unlock after completing the game.

[Donkeywing]

So what you are saying is it had 1 xpac to be good and a 2nd xpac to be good in 1 specific type of content. The rest is memory. Got it.

Nah, survival was way better than that. I'm shocked you demand proof on these statements, I have no desire to spend hours digging up shit and explaining the mechanics of the lost sv spec for defending a statement I know for certain to be a fact, as I've experienced those tiers hardcore. Besides I seriously doubt you give a fuck.

[shise]

Agree but looks like they are stubborn

Yeah, although the way they are ignoring it might mean that something is on their mind, so maybe it is not worth it to change it just yet. I bet they will switch it into a dark ranger spec. There are many "clues" in the game, when you talk with NPCs (many references and allusions to their actual existence). IT doesn´t make sense to make a new class for that, but a spec on the already existing class.

A Dark Ranger could fit into what Survival used to be.. but in modern times with the whole void and.. well, actual Dark Rangers around.

[Eapoe]

Nah, survival was way better than that. I'm shocked you demand proof on these statements, I have no desire to spend hours digging up shit and explaining the mechanics of the lost sv spec for defending a statement I know for certain to be a fact, as I've experienced those tiers hardcore. Besides I seriously doubt you give a fuck.

I do give a fuck, as people are making these types of statements but can’t prove it other than memory. I have personally checked warcraftlogs.com as well as worldoflogs.com and unable to find anything far back enough to verify it.
You also don’t need to explain the mechanics of old SV as I’m well aware that all 3 specs were almost completely identical in playstyle. Not theme, but playstyle. I also played those tiers hardcore, as I started raiding hardcore in ICC back in WotLK. That doesn’t mean everyone’s memory is 100% accurate. Just to put some proof on that, the person I quoted literally stated “SV was arguably the best pve spec in cata. check some world first vids and SV will be there. It was also the best dungeon/challenge mode spec in mop.” Now you are going against that and stating it was better than that. So even though you both are pro rdps SV you are both showing you have skewed memories.

[Jujudrood]

While it isn't the worst spec to play, and it was pretty engaging in Legion, it is the worst revamp for me, personally, because my main was Hunter and Surv MoP->WoD was the most fun I've had playing any spec in the game.
Changing it to melee, then effectively leaving BM boring and uninteresting and MM worse for wear, it made playing my hunter a sad experience.

The choice, thematically, was also weird.
If they had to make one melee, I would have preferred they change BM since, you know, you're a beast master and your beasts attack in melee, so go all beastly with them and attack alongside them.
I mean, Survival... does that sound like a 'Let's run face first into this mob and poke it with a stick!!!' kind of spec?
Like, is that your best choice for survival?

But honorable mention to Rogues. RIP Combat.

[schwank05]

Melee Survival is the only hunter spec that I will play. I love it, it made me dust off my old hunter that I had not touched since WOTLK and I love it. The only complaint I have is that they should be able to Dual Wield.

[Saltysquidoon]

The choice, thematically, was also weird.
If they had to make one melee, I would have preferred they change BM since, you know, you're a beast master and your beasts attack in melee, so go all beastly with them and attack alongside them.
I mean, Survival... does that sound like a 'Let's run face-first into this mob and poke it with a stick!!!' kind of spec?
Like, is that your best choice for survival?.

I think the idea behind it was 'member 'nilla? Because survival was the spec that buffed Raptor strike, wing clip and mongoose bite.

[Nythiz]

I do give a fuck, as people are making these types of statements but can’t prove it other than memory. I have personally checked warcraftlogs.com as well as worldoflogs.com and unable to find anything far back enough to verify it.
You also don’t need to explain the mechanics of old SV as I’m well aware that all 3 specs were almost completely identical in playstyle. Not theme, but playstyle. I also played those tiers hardcore, as I started raiding hardcore in ICC back in WotLK. That doesn’t mean everyone’s memory is 100% accurate. Just to put some proof on that, the person I quoted literally stated “SV was arguably the best pve spec in cata. check some world first vids and SV will be there. It was also the best dungeon/challenge mode spec in mop.” Now you are going against that and stating it was better than that. So even though you both are pro rdps SV you are both showing you have skewed memories.

It's hard to get evidence, since that's always a bit of a tricky thing to get.

I'm with Donkeywing though, memory of people who played at any decent level back then is more than enough.
I remember SV being great in early wrath, in parts of Cata, being top for most of Pandaria and solid at the start of WoD.
It fell off hard halfway through WoD where blizzard nerfed it hard into the ground, probably in preparation for the melee spec.

Best proof you can get:

https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/pve...classes/hunter

Graph halfway down shows the rise and fall of some specs. it's hard to say when things are as the time graph is broken, but you can pretty much make up a lot of those.
First 1/4 is Pandara where SV reigned for most of the expansion with BM being decent and MM being good at the far end of SOO.
Second quarter is WOD where SV started super strong (HM + BRF) and then got nerfed into the ground (quite literally according to the graph) and then the ultimate rise of MM in HFC.
Third quarter is most of Legion where MM remained strong with BM as decent contender getting stronger toward the end.
Forth quarter is most of BFA where BM dominates. This is basically what 90% of the wannabe hunters on this board preach when they say BM has been "super duper OP for eternity"

Examples basis world first kills, as that's the best you can get I guess:

"Early wrath" Mimiron - SV hunter - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4X_zHyK6Fc
World first Lei Shen in MoP TOT - SV hunter - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMRAox_qCUU
World first BRF in WoD - SV Hunter - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHJ_hqJewM0 (might have been 1 or 2 BM hunters here too, as they were arguably slightly better than SV at this point)

Survival wasn't only solid, it was one of the most beloved specs for Hunter end game PvE players.

[doodle90]

I like survival, I do miss the dot ranged aspect of it. I wish they'd put immolate trap back in and the aoe version.