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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Yeah..I still agree....and we still get constant threats on how "Nobody will invite me into any group if I am not choosing the optimal specc, class, covenant, whatever"?

    To the point that Blizzard caved in and the "meaningful choice" of choosing a covenant can now be reverted every week or so...and people still cry how they want to change them whenever...like talents.
    I think covenant won't be a big deal but its bad practices. Stop trying to make me do shit I don't like and create interesting content. It's also about me wanting to play the game. The way I enjoy.
    Violence Jack Respects Women!

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Every time they do people cry and complain.

    Classes are unique. "X class can do this but mine cant"
    Choices are unique. "I don't want to be forced to choose I want them all"
    It's more I don't want my entire raid to be mostly one class... just look at classic to see how unique classes works out in practice...

    People want to be useful or at least the grand majority do. If you offer most of the playerbase one choice and another that is just flat out twice as good people who pick the first will feel slighted if they didnt know ahead of time.

  3. #183
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViolenceJackRespectsWomen View Post
    I think covenant won't be a big deal but its bad practices. Stop trying to make me do shit I don't like and create interesting content. It's also about me wanting to play the game. The way I enjoy.
    ...say a few million people and all of them have different ideas of what is shit they don't like and what is "interesting content"...or the way they enjoy it. Hell...I have no idea what you like. You have no idea what I like.

    I think this it where the moment comes in where you find a game that suits you best. Maybe it is WoW...maybe it isn't anymore.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by dextersmith View Post
    Vanilla rogues were terrible if you had more than 2 active mobs because they had no self heal or aoe, eating after each fight. Remember warriors trying to off heal with bandages? lol
    That's, why I don't play Vanilla. Rogues have healing poison now, defensive CDs and can reset fight at any moment. They also can skip any fight, if they want. And Warriros are still terrible, as back in Vanilla. They have limited healing CD, that can only be used once per "hard" mob fight. Yeah, it's a little better, than nothing, but they are still one of those classes, that sit around bottom of my solo content rating. Only good nuking capability makes them better, than Mages.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    ...say a few million people and all of them have different ideas of what is shit they don't like and what is "interesting content"...or the way they enjoy it. Hell...I have no idea what you like. You have no idea what I like.

    I think this it where the moment comes in where you find a game that suits you best. Maybe it is WoW...maybe it isn't anymore.
    This is why the games dying. Chore systems are cancer... I don't understand why I can get a covenant through whatever activity, I want like in cataclsym. You could do dailies, dungeons, and pvp for reputation by picking a tabard.

    My systems allows you to quest and enjoy the story but it allows me to pick the activity, I want to do. I advocated for freedom but you want to just defend blizzards choices.
    Violence Jack Respects Women!

  6. #186
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViolenceJackRespectsWomen View Post
    This is why the games dying. Chore systems are cancer... I don't understand why I can get a covenant through whatever activity, I want like in cataclsym. You could do dailies, dungeons, and pvp for reputation by picking a tabard.

    My systems allows you to quest and enjoy the story but it allows me to pick the activity, I want to do. I advocated for freedom but you want to just defend blizzards choices.
    Whatever "games are dying" means. It is still a multi billion dollar industry.

    I am not defending Blizzard. I try and see the reality of choices that a game designer faces - in a constantly changing world of what keeps people playing.

    But if you truly think your system that "allows you to quest and enjoy the story but it allows ... to pick the activity" is the way to go and rescue games from dying - more power to you. Go out into the world, sell your knowledge to the highest bidder. It should make you rich.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Its so odd seeing the duality of the playerbase and it often shows on this forum quite well. I remember seeing a post that said bosses are too simple and don't have enough mechanics right next to another post that said bosses are too difficult and have too many mechanics.

    This post here is another one of those posts where I keep seeing people talk about how they're de-homogenizing too much and its causing issues with spec representation and going back to a "bring the class not the player" mentality. And then there's this post claiming that everything is too homogenized and they need to go back to de-homogenizing despite that being what blizzard has been doing for 2 going on 3 xpacs now.

    Its so so odd.
    Homestly it's the mmo vs rpg thing. Some want more rpg such as less homogenization abd olayer choices others want to focus on the mmo aspects such as raiding and dungeons

    Early wow had alot for both but fun not balance also seemed to be the devs focus..today you have the hardcore raiders/pvpers who minmax everything and insist on a frankly unattainable level of balance

    Then the rpers who want it to feel like a world again complete with all the nuisances that potentially entails.

    Annd in trying to appease both blizz is appeasing neither at least imo

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Whatever "games are dying" means. It is still a multi billion dollar industry.

    I am not defending Blizzard. I try and see the reality of choices that a game designer faces - in a constantly changing world of what keeps people playing.

    But if you truly think your system that "allows you to quest and enjoy the story but it allows ... to pick the activity" is the way to go and rescue games from dying - more power to you. Go out into the world, sell your knowledge to the highest bidder. It should make you rich.
    It's not at all they can allow people to play the game the way they want or not... It worked in based expansion and it can work now. True I just think the lack of freedom and the content being gated behind team gameplay is what's killing most games.

    I don't know if I play shadowlands if it's like 8.3. I had to dedicated an hour of my day to do poorly designed dailies as a raider/pvper while trying to get capped and raid. It was killing my ability to enjoy the game. Allows the lack of being able to play my alts was hurting me. In vanilla learning one class was hard because we're bad. Learning one classes on a mythic raid level in wow is easy as fuck. In pvp it's a bit harder but still. Wow just doesn't have that much depth lol outside of high-end arena or world first.
    Last edited by ViolenceJackRespectsWomen; 2020-10-19 at 11:41 PM.
    Violence Jack Respects Women!

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvern View Post
    Excuse me for typo in title: Breng = Bring obviously.

    I would like to discuss the following evolution the game has been through: Classes do not have any unique flavour left in their toolkit, even items nowadays can do things that normally only some classes could. (a good example are the drums that give bloodlust, orginally only reserved for Shamans)

    Wouldn't it be amazing to see some unique flavour back in the shadowlands. Why won't blizzard let one class excell in some shape or form and be less good in other aspects of the game. Is it because blizzard wants to appeal to a broader audience by homonisation of skills? Maybe.

    If classes have something that distinguishes them and makes them valuable it truly feels more like an MMO to me. So Blizzard should further unprune stuff and make new unique abilities or skills for classes to make WoW feel like an true MMO again.

    How cool is it that only mages could blink, you see a mage blink and it felt special and what about a priest that has one unique very powerfull prayer of healing effect but the other classes dont, these classes can have something else awesome. Why do classes need so much overlap between them nowadays.

    My question for you guys: opinions on how to implement more uniqueness in Shadowlands for the classes?
    It's simple. The dev team is entirely different to what it was years ago. Many regard MoP as the peak of class design. What we get now is a budget version because much of the dev team has been replaced

  10. #190
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    The answer is unfortunately very simple. People complain when a race / class / spec has something that they want but can't have on their preferred race / class / spec. Trying to balance uniqueness became such a burden that Blizzard decided to just do away with it altogether. As a mass audience we can only blame ourselves.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by KridenTagg View Post
    The answer is unfortunately very simple. People complain when a race / class / spec has something that they want but can't have on their preferred race / class / spec. Trying to balance uniqueness became such a burden that Blizzard decided to just do away with it altogether. As a mass audience we can only blame ourselves.
    It's clear why tehy are doing it too. Things like removing flying and making covenants non-trivial to swap are changes that are better for the game in making instances of it more unique, but the playerbase threw a fit over them.
    Hopefully the current devs manage to rise above the people complaining and focus on making the game better instead of just appeasing the people who cry the loudest.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

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