Shadowlands: Why won't blizzard bring back uniqueness?

[Yvern]

Excuse me for typo in title: Breng = Bring obviously.

I would like to discuss the following evolution the game has been through: Classes do not have any unique flavour left in their toolkit, even items nowadays can do things that normally only some classes could. (a good example are the drums that give bloodlust, orginally only reserved for Shamans)

Wouldn't it be amazing to see some unique flavour back in the shadowlands. Why won't blizzard let one class excell in some shape or form and be less good in other aspects of the game. Is it because blizzard wants to appeal to a broader audience by homonisation of skills? Maybe.

If classes have something that distinguishes them and makes them valuable it truly feels more like an MMO to me. So Blizzard should further unprune stuff and make new unique abilities or skills for classes to make WoW feel like an true MMO again.

How cool is it that only mages could blink, you see a mage blink and it felt special and what about a priest that has one unique very powerfull prayer of healing effect but the other classes dont, these classes can have something else awesome. Why do classes need so much overlap between them nowadays.

My question for you guys: opinions on how to implement more uniqueness in Shadowlands for the classes?

[dcc626]

Excuse me for typo in title: Breng = Bring obviously.

I would like to discuss the following evolution the game has been through: Classes do not have any unique flavour left in their toolkit, even items nowadays can do things that normally only some classes could. (a good example are the drums that give bloodlust, orginally only reserved for Shamans)

Wouldn't it be amazing to see some unique flavour back in the shadowlands. Why won't blizzard let one class excell in some shape or form and be less good in other aspects of the game. Is it because blizzard wants to appeal to a broader audience by homonisation of skills? Maybe.

If classes have something that distinguishes them and makes them valuable it truly feels more like an MMO to me. So Blizzard should further unprune stuff and make new unique abilities or skills for classes to make WoW feel like an true MMO again.

How cool is it that only mages could blink, you see a mage blink and it felt special and what about a priest that has one unique very powerfull prayer of healing effect but the other classes dont, these classes can have something else awesome. Why do classes need so much overlap between them nowadays.

My question for you guys: opinions on how to implement more uniqueness in Shadowlands for the classes?

why no uniqueness? its simeple. as covenants have shown throughout the beta, people dont like seeing things they cant have. ask people who they feel about classes having unique buffs/debuffs that cant be replaced any other way.

now imagine that each class had something unique. it just wont work with the way the game is now.

[Baconeggcheese]

Its so odd seeing the duality of the playerbase and it often shows on this forum quite well. I remember seeing a post that said bosses are too simple and don't have enough mechanics right next to another post that said bosses are too difficult and have too many mechanics.

This post here is another one of those posts where I keep seeing people talk about how they're de-homogenizing too much and its causing issues with spec representation and going back to a "bring the class not the player" mentality. And then there's this post claiming that everything is too homogenized and they need to go back to de-homogenizing despite that being what blizzard has been doing for 2 going on 3 xpacs now.

Its so so odd.

[Mic_128]

I would like to discuss the following evolution the game has been through: Classes do not have any unique flavour left in their toolkit, even items nowadays can do things that normally only some classes could. (a good example are the drums that give bloodlust, orginally only reserved for Shamans)Is it because blizzard wants to appeal to a broader audience by homonisation of skills? Maybe.

No, it's because they didn't want to be in a situation where they had to plan encounters around requiring certain classes.

[Super Kami Dende]

Because if you make a class unable to perform understand certain conditions, People just sit them out.

I much prefer classes now being balanced across a variety of aspects rather than pigeon holed into only 1 or 2.

If I wanted trash, unbalanced design like that, I'd go play Classic.

[BreakerOfWills]

Excuse me for typo in title: Breng = Bring obviously.

I would like to discuss the following evolution the game has been through: Classes do not have any unique flavour left in their toolkit, even items nowadays can do things that normally only some classes could. (a good example are the drums that give bloodlust, orginally only reserved for Shamans)

Wouldn't it be amazing to see some unique flavour back in the shadowlands. Why won't blizzard let one class excell in some shape or form and be less good in other aspects of the game. Is it because blizzard wants to appeal to a broader audience by homonisation of skills? Maybe.

If classes have something that distinguishes them and makes them valuable it truly feels more like an MMO to me. So Blizzard should further unprune stuff and make new unique abilities or skills for classes to make WoW feel like an true MMO again.

How cool is it that only mages could blink, you see a mage blink and it felt special and what about a priest that has one unique very powerfull prayer of healing effect but the other classes dont, these classes can have something else awesome. Why do classes need so much overlap between them nowadays.

My question for you guys: opinions on how to implement more uniqueness in Shadowlands for the classes?

Your "good example" literally got hit with a massive nerf in Shadowlands to 15% haste down from 25%(5% below the 30% of heroism/bloodlust)

[Gurahk]

Guess you haven't followed the news recently, many items like the drums and scrolls were nerfed, making them considerably weaker compared to the class ones.

[Yvern]

Because if you make a class unable to perform understand certain conditions, People just sit them out.

I much prefer classes now being balanced across a variety of aspects rather than pigeon holed into only 1 or 2.

If I wanted trash, unbalanced design like that, I'd go play Classic.

let me specify my standpoint, thanks for all the input by the way guys. I would like to see more unique flavours on the classes. Not neccicarily only in ''power'', sure heroism might have been to imbalanced i wholeheartly agree with that. But how about bringing back totems with unique effects reserved for shamans? I would really not think that would hurt the game, it would be an true MMO aspect, imho.

[Mirishka]

Its so odd seeing the duality of the playerbase and it often shows on this forum quite well. I remember seeing a post that said bosses are too simple and don't have enough mechanics right next to another post that said bosses are too difficult and have too many mechanics.

This post here is another one of those posts where I keep seeing people talk about how they're de-homogenizing too much and its causing issues with spec representation and going back to a "bring the class not the player" mentality. And then there's this post claiming that everything is too homogenized and they need to go back to de-homogenizing despite that being what blizzard has been doing for 2 going on 3 xpacs now.

Its so so odd.

I've noticed that as well. There are lot of people here who complain for the sake of complaining.

- - - Updated - - -

let me specify my standpoint, thanks for all the input by the way guys. I would like to see more unique flavours on the classes. Not neccicarily only in ''power'', sure heroism might have been to imbalanced i wholeheartly agree with that. But how about bringing back totems with unique effects reserved for shamans? I would really not think that would hurt the game, it would be an true MMO aspect, imho.

Extra 'flavor' spells would be great. But the idea that classes should excel at different things never works out, because of the 'what is mathematically best for x scenario involving x thing' crowd. For example when our gear reaches the point of 'pull half the dungeon and AOE it down', people will want the classes that can AOE everything, not the classes that do great damage to 3 or 4 things.

DK tanks for a long time were *the* best tanks against magic damage, which was great for DK tanks, but sucked for guilds that didn't have one. Back in BC you had pallies that were great at trash (Ghostcrawler himself called them the "kings of AOE tanking") but inferior to warriors on bosses because of mechanics like Shear.

So it created these scenarios where you'd have e.g. a pally tank all the Hyjal trash, then the big bad warrior steps up to do the heavy lifting (boss). And so as BC progressed we saw a lot of 'LF tank for Heroic dungeons PALLY ONLY' because a pally could pull and handle 10, 20, etc mobs where as a warrior struggled to manage more than 4 or 5 at best (Thunder Clap had a target cap until the Wrath pre-patch).

So while 'different classes excel at different things!' sounds fun on paper, in practice it sucks and it ends up ostracizing a lot of specs and a lot of players.

[Baconeggcheese]

let me specify my standpoint, thanks for all the input by the way guys. I would like to see more unique flavours on the classes. Not neccicarily only in ''power'', sure heroism might have been to imbalanced i wholeheartly agree with that. But how about bringing back totems with unique effects reserved for shamans? I would really not think that would hurt the game, it would be an true MMO aspect, imho.

Do you have an example of the kind of unique, non-power related effects your looking for?

[Nnyco]

You mean like warlock gate, or druid aoe sprint or physical dmg taken debuff, or battle shout, or....

[Kralljin]

Its so so odd.

It's not odd, it's human nature to have different opinions and different views.

Some people prefer the older style of buffs (Classic, TBC), some prefer a mix (Wotlk - MoP), some prefer that they were not present at all.
It's the usual stuff, some complain that a change is made to begin with, some complain that a change doesn't go far enough.

[Niwes]

Excuse me for typo in title: Breng = Bring obviously.

I would like to discuss the following evolution the game has been through: Classes do not have any unique flavour left in their toolkit, even items nowadays can do things that normally only some classes could. (a good example are the drums that give bloodlust, orginally only reserved for Shamans)

Wouldn't it be amazing to see some unique flavour back in the shadowlands. Why won't blizzard let one class excell in some shape or form and be less good in other aspects of the game. Is it because blizzard wants to appeal to a broader audience by homonisation of skills? Maybe.

If classes have something that distinguishes them and makes them valuable it truly feels more like an MMO to me. So Blizzard should further unprune stuff and make new unique abilities or skills for classes to make WoW feel like an true MMO again.

How cool is it that only mages could blink, you see a mage blink and it felt special and what about a priest that has one unique very powerfull prayer of healing effect but the other classes dont, these classes can have something else awesome. Why do classes need so much overlap between them nowadays.

My question for you guys: opinions on how to implement more uniqueness in Shadowlands for the classes?

the answer is a simple 3 step:

step 1)
if that differences/niches lies in classes (and not, in example, in covenants), you have done this choice years ago, when your class was chosen by you.

step 2)
so you would have nothing TODAY, that you can push up by marketing and sell it as [insert step 3 here]

step 3)
MEANINGFUL CHOICE !!!!!!

in short:

as a shaolin master of playing Blizzard games, you reached that Zen level of logical thinking, when you realized that classes were completely streamlined, just to differ them again, by the help of a layer, that is put on top of them. now you ask why. next zen level: learn what the latin term „qui bono“ means.

good luck.

[VinceVega]

I would definetly not like it.

It would just make certain classes completyl useless. AE classes Mythic+, ST classes Raiding

So you literally cannot play good with just one character. That is just gatekeeping by making you bad for content.

Keep Uniqeness to the utility. That is fine and enough.

[Skendarn]

I agree with previous posters. I think a little more uniqueness would be sweet even though i think that all classes playwise feel different.

[Echo of Soul]

people dont like seeing things they cant have.

You're talking about children aren't you?

[sykoex]

There is a decent amount of uniqueness, for example tank vs heals vs dps or melee vs range. These playstyles are rather different from each other.

[Whiskeyjac]

Honest answer is they know they should but players won't accept going back to a tier system like vanilla to cata.

They even quote they want to make it feel like you got a rare and powerful weapon but they can't put the free loot and challenge less progression genie back into the bottle.

[saixilein]

Lol, do you see what happens actually? Much people crying about convenants, because thex cant change them on the fly. Imagine Classes/Specs would get "downgraded" to the origin Spec, like Pallys are only For Tankhealing & Buffing, Some Classes has good AE Dmg, some has bad AE DMG. Then u need every spec/class for your raid, to get the maximum Buffs.

Dont get me wrong, i would love to be more unique, so i support Ion with the Covenant system, but people these day just care for min/maxing, the community is toxic and has WAY to much people to pick from. Before xrealm was a thing you sometimes picked classes/spec/players that aren optimal/undergeared/not exped... today where u can choose from all Europe/US u just decline and wait a few more minutes. Sad but true.

The Problem here is the Community, not Blizzard. People dont realy care much more about the "RPG" sense in WoW.

[Azerate]

Just look at what was happening with the covenants for a couple last months. Some people, especially the ones vocal in the community as content creators don't want uniqueness, they want to be able to do everything, whenever they want, without any "gating".

Blizzard is trying their best to implement just a little bit of uniqueness, but even that gets attacked so furiously and so harshly by a subset of the community that they have to constantly backpeddle on everything.

This thread reads like it was written by someone who hasn't followed any discussions about SL recently