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  1. #1
    Dreadlord Darchi's Avatar
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    Is this sub thing 4 real...




    ...really, I mean, I am glad that ppls who love to play sub will finally enjoy, but I can not stand that spec...so what now...fck...

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans Makabreska's Avatar
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    Nice random BETA DPS chart, w/o any source to fact check it.
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  3. #3
    Pandaren Monk taishar68's Avatar
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    Two things about this:

    We are still in a tuning phase on beta, so we have no real idea on how the numbers will change.
    What is the breakdown between tiers? How far below, in terms of percentage, is someone in the D tier compared to the A tier?
    OK, 3 things; enjoyment and familiarity play a big role in what spec people choose, and how much they get out of it; you'll want a person who can be within 90% of max in the spec they know and love vs. 80% of one that has a numerical advantage.
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  4. #4
    Currently sub has a lot of bugs boosting it. And literally 0 tuning to rogue dmg has happened all beta and alpha. All abilities that rogues have on live have the exact same dmg on beta, meaning that any new thing they've added has only added more and more dmg.

  5. #5
    so according to this pic basically every spec sucks

  6. #6
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darchi View Post
    ...really, I mean, I am glad that ppls who love to play sub will finally enjoy, but I can not stand that spec...so what now...fck...
    Based on beta info as of September 5th. Likely to be more tuning even by pre-patch. A week or two earlier, Arcane Mage was massively topping the charts, so take it with a grain of salt.

  7. #7
    As of right now, yes sub rogue does alot of damage but because of bugs that need to be fixed and tuning for every class isn't done...

    There is always the case of, just because sub rogue is "s-tier" doesn't mean everyone player who goes sub rogue will be "s-tier", if you don't know how a class works then you can make any class look like "f-tier". Sure, top players will always play the best class dps-wise, mechanic-wise, etc, but 99% of the playerbase can play whatever spec they know the best and be a great player. And to already counter the "no man, you gotta be this class and covenant or you will be bad all of SL" I say, get some friends/guildmates that let anyone play what they want and you will get through all the content just fine, you won't be first to do it, but it will get done.

    Thank you, see you after tuning is done (which by the way the real final tuning is the day before mythic raiding and m+ are released, not day of SL launch)

  8. #8
    There is practically no way Subtlety will ever be top tier in PvE DPS. It's one of the "niche" specs they keep around primarily for historic reasons, as it doesn't have a clearly defined role or strength and only a small core player base that really cares about it. It's not quite as bad as Survival hunter (which has fundamentally different mechanics from other hunter specs, being melee) but it's up there. It'll be tuned to be the worst of the three specs, and then there's simply a negotiation of how large the gaps are. Right now it's bugged to all hell and Beta numbers are Beta numbers.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    There is practically no way Subtlety will ever be top tier in PvE DPS. It's one of the "niche" specs they keep around primarily for historic reasons, as it doesn't have a clearly defined role or strength and only a small core player base that really cares about it. It's not quite as bad as Survival hunter (which has fundamentally different mechanics from other hunter specs, being melee) but it's up there. It'll be tuned to be the worst of the three specs, and then there's simply a negotiation of how large the gaps are. Right now it's bugged to all hell and Beta numbers are Beta numbers.
    This take is almost as bad as op. Well done
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  10. #10
    Dreadlord Krothar's Avatar
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    The website you've pulled this from simply skims logs from logging websites and posts all the numbers. Their ratings also include wipe runs etc and is in no way indicative of what we'll play upon release.

    Pretty sure the guy who owns WoL called it out as being shit.

    But lets not forget none of the damage numbers have actually been finalized as of yet. I wouldn't be stressing about DPS rankings yet.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Darchi View Post
    [/url]


    ...really, I mean, I am glad that ppls who love to play sub will finally enjoy, but I can not stand that spec...so what now...fck...
    So just play as assassination or outlaw? Are you rogue player or are you a meter player?

  12. #12
    @Biomega
    it is historically the least played rogue spec in PvE for sure.
    But it have had its moments of fame, like in hellfire citadel, tomb of sargeras and legion m+.
    blizzard destroyed it after the zul incident and didnt bother fixing it for the rest of bfa.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    There is practically no way Subtlety will ever be top tier in PvE DPS. It's one of the "niche" specs they keep around primarily for historic reasons, as it doesn't have a clearly defined role or strength and only a small core player base that really cares about it. It's not quite as bad as Survival hunter (which has fundamentally different mechanics from other hunter specs, being melee) but it's up there. It'll be tuned to be the worst of the three specs, and then there's simply a negotiation of how large the gaps are. Right now it's bugged to all hell and Beta numbers are Beta numbers.
    had to pepper in the irrelevant survival hunter dig didn't you

  14. #14
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojusk View Post
    @Biomega
    it is historically the least played rogue spec in PvE for sure.
    But it have had its moments of fame, like in hellfire citadel, tomb of sargeras and legion m+.
    blizzard destroyed it after the zul incident and didnt bother fixing it for the rest of bfa.
    It was also strong during Firelands and DS

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkShawoman View Post
    As of right now, yes sub rogue does alot of damage but because of bugs that need to be fixed and tuning for every class isn't done...

    There is always the case of, just because sub rogue is "s-tier" doesn't mean everyone player who goes sub rogue will be "s-tier", if you don't know how a class works then you can make any class look like "f-tier". Sure, top players will always play the best class dps-wise, mechanic-wise, etc, but 99% of the playerbase can play whatever spec they know the best and be a great player. And to already counter the "no man, you gotta be this class and covenant or you will be bad all of SL" I say, get some friends/guildmates that let anyone play what they want and you will get through all the content just fine, you won't be first to do it, but it will get done.

    Thank you, see you after tuning is done (which by the way the real final tuning is the day before mythic raiding and m+ are released, not day of SL launch)
    Stop acting like voice of community. I have played rogue since early vanilla and I have always loved sub the most, and I know I'm pretty far from minority.

  16. #16
    The Patient Krimzin's Avatar
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    In Current balancing scenario, Sub is crazy strong. Highly doubt that it will be like this at release.
    There will be a boatload of Sheep who see Sub at the top and roll one, happens in every expansion. The sheep chase the Meta Classes, while the Lions make almost any class great. Stop being a Sheep and play what you like. Make it your own. There are so many variables out there that make DPS ranking invalid, yet people still believe... Go figure.
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  17. #17
    I'm really worried about Rogues saying things like ... "Jesus, look that !! We are very strong !! wow !! Certainly we are going to have a huge NERF and if this happens Blizzard acted correctly!!"
    This type of post really makes me mad because we already have a WHOLE PLAYER-BASE from other classes asking to nerf the rogues on the forums forever ... and we don't need ROGUES asking for the same thing.

    Another thing: I don't particularly care if Subtlety is excellent at PVE.
    At PVP (I do care here).
    Subtlety has been totally broken in PVP since Legion. The Devs know this a lot but for some "mysterious reason" they don't fix the problem. Several very important PVP skills have been taken from us.
    We still need at least:

    1- Gouge (PVP talent)
    2- Garrote (baseline)
    3- Premeditation also working within Shadow Dance or at least give us back the old version of Premed.

    Jesus dude..... We spent the entire "ALPHA / BETA FEED-BACK" asking for Gouge.
    We were not heard !!! Really sad...
    Fact!
    Last edited by Fantazma; 2020-09-14 at 10:59 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Darchi View Post



    ...really, I mean, I am glad that ppls who love to play sub will finally enjoy, but I can not stand that spec...so what now...fck...

    Sub also has a very high skill cap so some may be insane and others that don’t have the skill will do much less damage.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Darchi View Post
    ...really, I mean, I am glad that ppls who love to play sub will finally enjoy, but I can not stand that spec...so what now...fck...
    Specs aren't tuned yet, but have you tried it on PTR? Especially since the GCD changes, it is a whole hell of a lot of fun, particularly with a Premeditation/Shadow Focus/Enveloping Shadows build. Way more fun than Assassination or Outlaw at the moment for me. But I highly doubt no matter how things get tuned, Assassination won't be solid for PvE and Outlaw won't be solid for Mythic+

  20. #20
    Taking advantage of this topic ....
    Someone can answer me: For PVP... What looks better?
    Subterfuge + Dark Shadow OR Nightstalker + Enveloping Shadows??
    In the first I have 3 secs to apply Cheap shot> SS> SS> Rupture and then proceed with an awesome buff inside the shadow dance ...
    In the second I start with Shadow Dance after Cheap Shot ... and without the Dark Shadows buff BUT I have 16 seconds inside Shadow dance ...!
    I'm really in doubt ...

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