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  1. #221
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazuOG View Post
    He said they can easily pull the ripcord. Turns out there is none, and there never has been one. Giving people hope by lying to them isn't exactly something that sparks joy in your community. He is also the master of "lawyer talk", which is not surprising since he is one. Having to listen to someone weasel themselves out of having to make concrete statements and veiling themselves in ambiguity is infuriating. Neither is it a rhetoric befitting someone in his position.

    If I wanted to listen to a lawyer, i'd sue someone
    .
    He never said any thing about easily pulling the rip cord he said it would be a last recourse and the ripcord in question would be them putting in the time to de couple every thing and make them work unliked to covenants which is exactly what they said they would do in his blue post.

    There was no lawyer talk there was no weaselling he said what the plan was for the coming months and then in the blue post told us what the plan he already gave looked like in practice.
    Last edited by Daemos daemonium; 2020-09-15 at 04:26 PM.

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Trumpcloak View Post
    This expansion is nowhere near ready for release yet, and supposedly it is a month and a half away

    And their latest pvp vendor thing told me the devs have no idea what they're doing.
    This is shaping up to be the biggest rush job since Warlords of Draenor. Yikes.
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  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    More or less same thing if suddenly some "youtube political analyst" would be transferred from his basement to White House.



    Lol, let's wait for another 3.3-3.4 M sold from pre-orders and first day alone.
    Selling those copies within 24h when players quit in droves right after that isn't a proof of anything. Their financial results tell another story and right until Shadowlands pre orders or the Classic launch hit the ground they were really bad in comparison to the results from the last +5 years (I don't really want to open this discussion again, but if necessary I'll bring back all the nice graphs with official shareholder data that are proving my point).
    Last edited by Nyel; 2020-09-15 at 04:42 PM.
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  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    He never said any thing about easily pulling the rip cord he said it would be a last recourse and the ripcord in question would be them putting in the time to de couple every thing and make them work unliked to covenants which is exactly what they said they could do in his blue post.

    There was no lawyer talk there was no weaselling he said what the plan was for the coming months and then in the blue post told us what the plan he already gave looked like in practice.
    I already had this discussion with you in another thread but it's kind of frustrating to see you continuing to double down on this histrionic version of events. Words have meanings and if there was never an intention to "pull the rip cord" then he shouldn't have said anything about it in the first place. For a guy who is very careful with the words he says it's hard to believe that this was an "on-the-spot" verbal gaffe as I've seen people suggest rather than an intentional attempt to placate portions of the game's community who were (and still are) very concerned with the way Covenants are going to shake out.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnosh View Post
    This is shaping up to be the biggest rush job since Warlords of Draenor. Yikes.
    It is. And it's funny that Ion claims it's the "most ambitious expansion we've ever made" - lol. No new races, no new class, just 4+1 new zones, no real new features besides reputation factions turned into another grind system, but hey, MOST AMBITIOUS EXPANSION EVER!
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  6. #226
    You know Ion is not the only man making this game. World of Warcraft is built by hundreds of people. Yes, he is the boss and shot-caller but don't except the game direction to drastically change just because they fire him, at least not in a year or two. The hate on Ion reminds me of Ghostcrawler. He was always the one that stood in front of the community and tried to explain why are they doing things the way they are and what are they trying to achieve with each change. And people hated him, that guy received so much hate for doing his job the right way it's unreal. In people's eyes, he was the one person responsible for every single decision being made in the team. So at one point GC had enough and resigned. I remember the cheering among the community everybody was so sure the game will be better from now on, just because he left. This was during Mists of Pandaria. And guess what? The only thing changed that there was no longer a person who communicated with the player base. If anything things became worse after he left if we look at WoD.
    So anyway the point is if you think getting rid of Ion will solve every problem with WoW and it suddenly becomes a perfect MMO again you are delusional. Ion at least passionate about the game and you can't deny him that, every single interview he always demonstrates that he knows everything about the current state of the game, he knows what's happening and why it's happening. He simply doesn't agree certain things are a problem. I wouldn't take the gamble of replacing him with who knows who, maybe some jackey from Activision sent there to "make things better" (more profitable) or someone who doesn't even care about the game at all.

    TLDR: Disagreeing with his direction of the game doesn't make him bad at his job.
    Last edited by Asheeva; 2020-09-15 at 04:43 PM.

  7. #227
    I hope the OP gets fired from his job at Mcdonalds because somebody doesn't subjectively like the burgers there.

    Wouldn't feel fair would it?

  8. #228
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    I already had this discussion with you in another thread but it's kind of frustrating to see you continuing to double down on this histrionic version of events. Words have meanings and if there was never an intention to "pull the rip cord" then he shouldn't have said anything about it in the first place. For a guy who is very careful with the words he says it's hard to believe that this was an "on-the-spot" verbal gaffe as I've seen people suggest rather than an intentional attempt to placate portions of the game's community who were (and still are) very concerned with the way Covenants are going to shake out.
    Your absolutely right words do have meanings and thankfully I have a quote so you can’t lie or misconstrued what those meanings are.
    Our goal is to do as much as that as possible during beta then make conservative changes once were live and if somethings a bit out of whack we probably lean towards doing that in a patch in the next tier with alot of of advanced noticed so people can plan around it versus you logged in one day and the rules have changed from out form under you. "


    then preach follows up with a question about rather they think this is the best idea where he says.

    "we do continue to think that yes, and i think our goal is to. the conversion we would love to have with the community in the next couple of months is what are the biggest problems what are the area's of great worry what are the area's that will make this fail. lets try and target those lets try and sure those up. is there the fall back opinion at the end of the day of removing all of the restrictions and you can just mix and max and change things freely? if we need to pull that rip cord it exist but that is see as a last recourse."
    Here you go I even bolded the most important part and as an additional favour I’ll even quote the blue post so there can be absolutely no confusion.

    we would embrace the work required to rebuild the covenant system along those lines if we agreed that it would be an improvement, but we ultimately do not share that view.
    The option of them opening them up is still there them pulling the ripcord would be doing exactly what ion said in the blue post, the ripcord isn’t and hasn’t ever been a button that just does every thing instantly the fact that You don’t understand this doesn’t mean there is no rip cord and it doesn’t mean there was any lie it just means you jumped to some fantastical conclusion all on your own.

  9. #229
    Now Ya'll are getting it, I've been friends with ex-EJ members for years.
    Ion is an example of someone who's only good at bullshitting, they'll make it but it will always only be bullshit.

    Purge the failures.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Your absolutely right words do have meanings and thankfully I have a quote so you can’t lie or misconstrued what those meanings are.


    Here you go I even bolded the most important part and as an additional favour I’ll even quote the blue post so there can be absolutely no confusion.



    The option of them opening them up is still there them pulling the ripcord would be doing exactly what ion said in the blue post, the ripcord isn’t and hasn’t ever been a button that just does every thing instantly the fact that You don’t understand this doesn’t mean there is no rip cord and it doesn’t mean there was any lie it just means you jumped to some fantastical conclusion all on your own.
    Where the fuck did I say Ion lied? My argument has never been that Ion lied to us. It's that he said something that could easily be misinterpreted and it would probably be better for all parties if he'd simply be more direct with what he actually meant.

  11. #231
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Where the fuck did I say Ion lied? My argument has never been that Ion lied to us. It's that he said something that could easily be misinterpreted and it would probably be better for all parties if he'd simply be more direct with what he actually meant.
    Lying, intentional attempt to placate, does it really matter what you call it?

    I assume you ignoring every thing other then that one word means you can’t contest that what he said holds true and that there is still a ripcord even if it’s not what you imagined it to be?

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Lying, intentional attempt to placate, does it really matter what you call it?

    I assume you ignoring every thing other then that one word means you can’t contest that what he said holds true and that there is still a ripcord even if it’s not what you imagined it to be?
    Brother, if the motherfucker said "there's a rip cord but we're going to go ahead and wait until the first content patch before we think about it," then that's an entirely different thing than responding the way he did to a direct question about whether Blizzard had plans to change things. You smugly pretending like Ion never said something in the first place after Blizzard clarifies that they have no intention of making changes to Covenants pre-launch does not absolve him from the onus of clearer communication. Christ. That's all I'm saying here, I have no fucking idea why you want to turn this into some ridiculous promised pony argument.

  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Brother, if the motherfucker said "there's a rip cord but we're going to go ahead and wait until the first content patch before we think about it," then that's an entirely different thing than responding the way he did to a direct question about whether Blizzard had plans to change things. You smugly pretending like Ion never said something in the first place after Blizzard clarifies that they have no intention of making changes to Covenants pre-launch does not absolve him from the onus of clearer communication. Christ. That's all I'm saying here, I have no fucking idea why you want to turn this into some ridiculous promised pony argument.
    I’m incredibly curious what you think words like “last recourse” mean or phrases like “ then make conservative changes once were live” or even “lean towards doing that in a patch in the next tier“. What exactly was unclear to you? With phrasing like that what possible made you think those meant any thing other then exactly what he said?

    The complication seemed incredibly clear.
    Last edited by Daemos daemonium; 2020-09-15 at 05:13 PM.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    I’m incredibly curious what you think words like “last recourse” mean or phrases like “ then make conservative changes once were live” or even “lean towards doing that in a patch in the next tier“. What exactly was unclear to you? With phrasing like that what possible made you think those meant any thing other then exactly what he said?

    The complication seemed incredibly clear.
    He did not specify a timeline for pulling the rip cord so people (in general) reasonably assumed that it could potentially happen before the game went live. We now know that not to be the case but I think a lot of unrest could have been avoided had Ion simply, you know, not said that it was even an option in the first place (or clarified that if it were an option, that the timeline for that option would occur post-launch).

  15. #235
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  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Asheeva View Post
    So at one point GC had enough and resigned.
    Your post implies that Ghostcrawler left because of the community and the shit it gave him, which is most likely false.

    GC was simply open to communication, not every developer likes or wants to do this (after all, this is the CM's job), GC did it anyway since he joined in early Wotlk, to the point where he talked about WoW's design on his own Twitter account.
    He could've stopped at any point if he wanted to, he didn't because he (i assume) got some sort of enjoyment out of this, despite how some parts of the community acted towards him.

    One of the reasons why Ghostcrawler left isn't because of the part of the community that shat on him, to the contrary in fact: Bad players.

    Ghostcrawler championed the Cata Heroics, which were extremely brutal for players who grew fond of the easy heroics in Wotlk, he *defended* them in his "wow, heroics are hard!" blogpost and he said that LFR (you know, that one mode which is extremely friendly towards players within the lower skill bracket) was one of his greatest mistakes.
    Even if you disregard this, one of his first posts after he joined RIOT was essentially shitting on WoW by saying that he's finally working on a game where he doesn't have to worry about everybodies grandma.
    This is a clear shot not towards the "toxic community" but the community of players which lack the mechanical ability to complete content with a modicum of difficulty or the mindset to actually improve themselves to beat such content.

    Small reminder, he joined RIOT, company then only known for LoL and Moba games are anything but known for their "wholesome" community.

    Ghostcrawler was (in my assumption) a very gameplay driven designer and when he realized that WoW is also largely catering to an audience he didn't want to design the game around, he packed his things.

    After all, gameplay driven games require a modicum of skill to enjoy them (or the mindset to to improve yourself as player), which a portion of the WoW community seemingly lacks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Asheeva View Post
    If anything things became worse after he left if we look at WoD.
    I doubt GC could have salvaged WoD, the failure of WoD most likely rests on the shoulders of the higher ups (Brack, Pardo & Chilton).
    Quote Originally Posted by Asheeva View Post
    TLDR: Disagreeing with his direction of the game doesn't make him bad at his job.
    As much as i respect Ion, ever since he took over the game started to have those huge systems, with massive gaping flaws at launch that require Blizzard months to fix.

    This is not a "disagreeing with the direction" but rather "fucked up execution", which does most certainly fall into his domain.
    Not to mention that he is constantly trying to reimbrace the RPG aspect of WoW through some super systemized fashion, which doesn't fit into how the rest of the game is designed.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2020-09-15 at 05:43 PM.

  17. #237
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    He did not specify a timeline for pulling the rip cord so people (in general) reasonably assumed that it could potentially happen before the game went live. We now know that not to be the case but I think a lot of unrest could have been avoided had Ion simply, you know, not said that it was even an option in the first place (or clarified that if it were an option, that the timeline for that option would occur post-launch).
    “but that is see as a last recourse."
    “conservative changes once were live”
    “doing that in a patch in the next tier“

    Unless all of these mean something drastically different to you I wouldn’t say that’s any where near a reasonable assumption or even that the timeline was unclear.

    But you can lead a horse and all that.

  18. #238

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Recovery View Post
    So, I imagined the game without all of the things that you told me to imagine it without.

    Weird, the game i imagined was better.. Whats also weird is that WoW had its highest MAU and Sub numbers during the time in the game that those things didnt exist.

    Super weird.

    I guess there is a threshold where solid design beats just having alot of shit to do over and over.
    Without:
    • Mythic+;
    • Extra engame power progression;
    • World Quests.

    You mean a game with no endgame whatsoever outside of raiding is better than a game with more options of endgame and activities outside raiding for PvE?

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    You are a major hypocrite. What happened to devs being people too?

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ve-to-hate-wow
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  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Selling those copies within 24h when players quit in droves right after that isn't a proof of anything. Their financial results tell another story and right until Shadowlands pre orders or the Classic launch hit the ground they were really bad in comparison to the results from the last +5 years (I don't really want to open this discussion again, but if necessary I'll bring back all the nice graphs with official shareholder data that are proving my point).
    You have post-WoD data with MAUs and their earnings from WoW? Are you sure it's not google trends again, that "proved" TBC Classic is more popular than Shadowlands?

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