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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Legends303 View Post
    They got detailed feedback on why covenant power was not going to work but lol we are going to move forward anyway, even though we said we not move forward with covenant power if there was enough negative feedback, they lied as usual .
    Ummmmm ... you know you can't just make shit up and wish it was true right? They never said they would not move ahead with Covenants if there was enough bad feedback.

    And just because they take input from players, does not mean they have to act on it. They have made a ton of changes in some places, and not many in others. We'll see how covenants turn out. In the meanwhile, your post is just drivel.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Tesshin83 View Post
    Correction: Dont assume that what you want is the same as the entire playerbase wants. No body really knows what everybody wants. And also people usually dont want what they actually need.
    No, what I want isnt what everyone else wants. Its doubtful that even a simple majority or clear plurality wants the same things in the exact same combinations. However were most people upset at some point about a lack of tier sets, new talents, class appearances, order halls not carrying forward, daily/weekly chores, essence grinds, AP grinds, corruption grinds, island grinds, lack of alt-friendliness, lack of pvp vendors, lack of justice badge like tokens, pvp stat "balancing," removal of half the pvp talent tree and many, many other things? I'm going to say that based on feedback and everyone ive ever talked to in the game, yes. At some point something in the most recent iteration of the game was made in a way people found deliberately bothersome and not fun.
    So yes, my statement stands. The developers have made things recently that are the opposite of what players find fun. Not everything, or nobody would still play. But almost everyone has felt the sting of poor design lately.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by lyphe View Post
    Ummmmm ... you know you can't just make shit up and wish it was true right? They never said they would not move ahead with Covenants if there was enough bad feedback.

    And just because they take input from players, does not mean they have to act on it. They have made a ton of changes in some places, and not many in others. We'll see how covenants turn out. In the meanwhile, your post is just drivel.
    "I feel x so the fact that you feel y is obviously made up and stupid"

    You and OP would be great friends if you werent enemies. And what he is saying isnt false its just poorly worded. Its been explained many times above.

  3. #103
    Brewmaster khazmodan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tesshin83 View Post
    Wait. Did you say Preach is one the best players? Everytime I have seen him play the actual game he is a mediocre mythic raider at best. And there is nothing wrong with that.
    Preach was in Method before the scandal ended that guild and he wasn't there just because he is a youtuber.

  4. #104
    Dreadlord Kyux's Avatar
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    All Blizz's supporters like T&E, Wowhead, and Nobbel are against it? I must have missed something despite following them every single day.

    No OP, you are against covenants. Many people like them. Many people don't. We are yet to see whether it'll be a good idea. The game designers think it's a good idea that's why they're designing the game with them. I trust them more than I trust angry MMO-C posters who complain about everything, generalise for the whole community, and believe a game is broken because of imbalance between four abilities.

    -_-
    Quote Originally Posted by Akhlys View Post
    Once upon a time, boats were full of leaks. Now, our leaks are full of boats.

  5. #105
    The Lightbringer Fullmetal89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroticaine View Post
    Remember when people called for Ghostcrawler to be fired every expansion?
    lol I made a thread years ago about that because he nerfed my hunter and I was mad. I regret it so much, Ghostcrawler was a million times better than Ion.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...e-his-position
    Last edited by Fullmetal89; 2020-09-15 at 03:03 AM.
    "I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids. "
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  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Yes, I'm pretty sure execs actually sit in their office and brainstorm game mechanics like Covenants by themselves and the dev team is actually just used to hard-code it into the game.
    Because logically that is what some old corporate people do in their free time while not even playing the game.

    No, in reality execs don't effect actual game design at all.
    They probably set patch release days to some degree and push monetization like the 6 month sub mounts and shit (and that in-game pet/mount store) but they don't have anything to do with actually designing the game.

    Had you ever worked in a corporate hierarchy you should know this.
    What an idea. Is that what you think i meant?
    The boss will tell you you need to come up with xpac selling features, that you need to set player retention/engagement goals, micro transaction systems, etc. The team then has to conform to the goals and adapt their designing to achieve them.

    Turns out you knew what it meant afterall. So, why assume i didnt? Odd fellow, or should i say rude? *shrugs*
    Last edited by Swnem; 2020-09-15 at 03:18 AM.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I think you also need to calm down, and get some perspective on things because you're just as mad as OP is, just at the OP.

    He's approximating the quote during Ion's interview with Preach that if the covenant system doesnt work they are prepared to remove the restrictions from it. Most of the player testers that speak publicly have given feedback that the system is heavily hampered by the choice you're forced to make, and does not benefit from it, meanwhile having it freely interchangeable would give us that "missing" talent row.
    Yes OP is a bit over the top. No Ion shouldnt be fired. That doesnt mean everyone needs to resort to character assassination as for a reason they wont listen to anything OP has to say.
    The point is that right now it appears that it was an assumption that wasnt actually tested, intended to be a white lie to calm people down. It instead had the opposite effect of giving them hope that they could get what they actually wanted, and started to push for. And when it came out that "no we cant actually do that" the idea that him saying "we're prepared to pull the ripcord" was seen by many as a malicious lie. Personally I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

    Attacking the poster as a person does not help answer any of these questions. That would wipe away about half of these replies and we could have a real discussion.
    Ion didnt say that in the interview. He said there will be a mechanism to make all covenants available as fail safe.

    He did not say that if there are enough complaining and ranting from a vocal minority, they will pull any ripcord. This is still the decision of the developers and they can use any reason for pulling it or not.

    Also its wrong that a minority should have any say in it anyway.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyux View Post
    All Blizz's supporters like T&E, Wowhead, and Nobbel are against it? I must have missed something despite following them every single day.

    No OP, you are against covenants. Many people like them. Many people don't. We are yet to see whether it'll be a good idea. The game designers think it's a good idea that's why they're designing the game with them. I trust them more than I trust angry MMO-C posters who complain about everything, generalise for the whole community, and believe a game is broken because of imbalance between four abilities.

    -_-
    If everybody had this minset. It would be alot easier to enjoy the game.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    I actually wonder what would happen if we let Asmongold take his position
    I like my free mount every 6 months.

  9. #109
    I also want to throw in that the whole idea of having power behind permanent choice is a result of player feedback.

    So just keep that in mind before you say thing like "he should be fired because he goes against what" we" want"

  10. #110
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    We do know they've had very consistent feedback from a wide range of players that regularly broadcast to the playerbase, especially youtubers(who have a good reason to be positive, to keep getting early access to blizzard material) of all skill levels. Taliesin is one of the worst players ive seen, and preach is one of the best. At all skill levels discontent has been displayed with the idea of the system being heavily gated and not being able to switch between the powers- narratively we're helping all 4 houses. It would make sense to be able to draw their powers, just lock the soulbinds so that to have the revandreth power, you need to have the revandreth soulbind, etc.

    Basically from preach's interview it does seem fairly obvious that he made a claim that they were then not prepared to act on with the famous "ripcord" statement. In retrospect it appears to be a placating move to show confidence in their system. What you said is true. We dont have the actual statistics, no, but we do have some very prominent voices saying some very unimpressed things about the system, and expressing how the limitations are indeed too harsh. The statistics are not ours to get but the anecdotal evidence is almost 100% leaning negative(its not "entirely" negative as they like some aspects but dislike it as a whole) from playtesters. Testers who again, have a good reason to not say bad things about the systems. At the very least it does not inspire confidence.

    I'll say it again- he should be the raid dev and this kind of stuff needs to be put into someone else's hands. It just seems to be one undercooked system after another
    In preaches interview ion actually layed out that they planed to do exactly what they are doing now, I went ahead and copyed down a quote for another thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    just went ahead and skipped to the end of there interview for an actual quote.
    "Our goal is to do as much as that as possible during beta then make conservative changes once were live and if somethings a bit out of whack we probably lean towards doing that in a patch in the next tier with alot of of advanced noticed so people can plan around it versus you logged in one day and the rules have changed from out form under you. "


    then preach follows up with a question about rather they think this is the best idea where he says.

    "we do continue to think that yes, and i think our goal is to. the conversion we would love to have with the community in the next couple of months is what are the biggest problems what are the area's of great worry what are the area's that will make this fail. lets try and target those lets try and sure those up. is there the fall back opinion at the end of the day of removing all of the restrictions and you can just mix and max and change things freely? if we need to pull that rip cord it exist but that is see as a last recourse."

    check your self the time stamp is 46:44

    https://youtu.be/MEcXvDDtarc
    the ripcord in question was always going to be a post launch thing not at all based on negative beta feedback.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkura View Post
    So Ion should be fired because hes obviously the one making all the decisions by himself. Blizzard Entertainment is such small time indy company with like 8 employees and hes just hammering through hes own ideas and visions for SL.

    Yup.. You went there.
    A GAME DIRECTOR should take responsibility for what's happening with his project (in this case, that project is WOW).

    It is a FACT that WOW is losing subs in ENORMOUS masses.

    And it is also the FACT what makes people EXTREMELY unhappy about current state of game: (for past 4+ years)

    1. CLASS DESIGN!!!!!!!!!
    What they did? - They promised HUGE REWORK for SL... while actually, 85% specs feel exactly the same.


    2. "Borrowed power" system. People were FED UP with grinding the hell out of artifact powers already with 7.2.
    What they did? - They added even more grind in 7.3 (with alien artifact grind) - people were unhappy.
    What they did AFTER that? - They added EVEN MORE grind in 8.0 (azerite power) - people were unhappy again.
    What they did AFTER that? - THEY ADDED EVEN MORE GRIND IN 8.2 (essences) - 50% of BFA playerbase has left the house.
    What they did AFTER that? - THEY ADDED EVEN MORE RNG (that's new) GRIND IN 8.3 NOW (corruptions) - 90% BFA players gone.

    And what they did after all of that?! You think they maybe decided to finally remove system of "borrowed power"?
    NOPE!
    They added:

    legendailies (legion 2.0)
    covenants (lol)
    soulbinds (lol and /cry)
    conduits (lol and /cry and /mourn)


    by the time I finished this writing, number 3 has slipped off my mind cus I got pissed off....

    Honorable mentions tho:
    WQs, pvp vendors, pvp balance, pvp talents (just remove that and fix classes (number 1)), pvp stats.....

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by khazmodan View Post
    Preach was in Method before the scandal ended that guild and he wasn't there just because he is a youtuber.
    He worked with Method as a commentator right. He was raiding with Fatboss' guild on Ragnaros. I would know because Ive been on Ragnaros for 15 years.

    He raided with that guild during the world first races.

    Or?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Palapop View Post
    A GAME DIRECTOR should take responsibility for what's happening with his project (in this case, that project is WOW).

    It is a FACT that WOW is losing subs in ENORMOUS masses.

    And it is also the FACT what makes people EXTREMELY unhappy about current state of game: (for past 4+ years)

    1. CLASS DESIGN!!!!!!!!!
    What they did? - They promised HUGE REWORK for SL... while actually, 85% specs feel exactly the same.


    2. "Borrowed power" system. People were FED UP with grinding the hell out of artifact powers already with 7.2.
    What they did? - They added even more grind in 7.3 (with alien artifact grind) - people were unhappy.
    What they did AFTER that? - They added EVEN MORE grind in 8.0 (azerite power) - people were unhappy again.
    What they did AFTER that? - THEY ADDED EVEN MORE GRIND IN 8.2 (essences) - 50% of BFA playerbase has left the house.
    What they did AFTER that? - THEY ADDED EVEN MORE RNG (that's new) GRIND IN 8.3 NOW (corruptions) - 90% BFA players gone.

    And what they did after all of that?! You think they maybe decided to finally remove system of "borrowed power"?
    NOPE!
    They added:

    legendailies (legion 2.0)
    covenants (lol)
    soulbinds (lol and /cry)
    conduits (lol and /cry and /mourn)


    by the time I finished this writing, number 3 has slipped off my mind cus I got pissed off....

    Honorable mentions tho:
    WQs, pvp vendors, pvp balance, pvp talents (just remove that and fix classes (number 1)), pvp stats.....
    Well you if you want to credit him for the bad things. You should also credit him the good things. Which outweighs the negatives by far.

    Also, Wow is still the largest MMO in a genre of gaming that should be dead and they arr still making more and more money from Wow.

    Blizzard have no specific reason to be uoset with Ion as a game director, unless they are also angry forum posters with little actual information on what is going on.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    I actually wonder what would happen if we let Asmongold take his position
    Every zone in the game would look like Maldraxxus because of mold.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Legends303 View Post
    I never felt insulted in my life with that recent post he did about moving full steam ahead with their bad game design decisions. They got detailed feedback on why covenant power was not going to work but lol we are going to move forward anyway, even though we said we not move forward with covenant power if there was enough negative feedback, they lied as usual . We need a new game director fast because Ion is destroying the game with his bad decisions, look how many people left after BFA, I guess they’re going to continue this trend in Shadowlands. It has gotten so bad even their most ardent defenders are coming out against this such as Wowhead, Icy Veins, T & E, Nobbel etc. Also the endgame zone the maw not being done before it’s near release is a disgrace.
    Welcome to "Hater club"! Now you know, that sometimes haters aren't actually bad guys. They just don't agree with current direction of development, put large amount of effort into providing feedback, but are ignored, that feels like slap in a face. Then they become sarcastic and even may be a little bit toxic. This situations has already happened many times. The biggest example - WOD and removal of flying, when around half of playerbase was against it, yet they did it anyway. But it's not the only one. Overtuned content in Cata, mandatory daily grinds in MOP, etc.

  14. #114
    Some day you guys will have real problems. Play the game or don't.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Legends303 View Post
    I never felt insulted in my life with that recent post he did about moving full steam ahead with their bad game design decisions. They got detailed feedback on why covenant power was not going to work but lol we are going to move forward anyway, even though we said we not move forward with covenant power if there was enough negative feedback, they lied as usual . We need a new game director fast because Ion is destroying the game with his bad decisions, look how many people left after BFA, I guess they’re going to continue this trend in Shadowlands. It has gotten so bad even their most ardent defenders are coming out against this such as Wowhead, Icy Veins, T & E, Nobbel etc. Also the endgame zone the maw not being done before it’s near release is a disgrace.
    Hard disagree.

    Thanks for sharing.

  16. #116
    Epic! Redroniksre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palapop View Post
    A GAME DIRECTOR should take responsibility for what's happening with his project (in this case, that project is WOW).

    It is a FACT that WOW is losing subs in ENORMOUS masses.

    And it is also the FACT what makes people EXTREMELY unhappy about current state of game: (for past 4+ years)

    1. CLASS DESIGN!!!!!!!!!
    What they did? - They promised HUGE REWORK for SL... while actually, 85% specs feel exactly the same.


    2. "Borrowed power" system. People were FED UP with grinding the hell out of artifact powers already with 7.2.
    What they did? - They added even more grind in 7.3 (with alien artifact grind) - people were unhappy.
    What they did AFTER that? - They added EVEN MORE grind in 8.0 (azerite power) - people were unhappy again.
    What they did AFTER that? - THEY ADDED EVEN MORE GRIND IN 8.2 (essences) - 50% of BFA playerbase has left the house.
    What they did AFTER that? - THEY ADDED EVEN MORE RNG (that's new) GRIND IN 8.3 NOW (corruptions) - 90% BFA players gone.

    And what they did after all of that?! You think they maybe decided to finally remove system of "borrowed power"?
    NOPE!
    They added:

    legendailies (legion 2.0)
    covenants (lol)
    soulbinds (lol and /cry)
    conduits (lol and /cry and /mourn)


    by the time I finished this writing, number 3 has slipped off my mind cus I got pissed off....

    Honorable mentions tho:
    WQs, pvp vendors, pvp balance, pvp talents (just remove that and fix classes (number 1)), pvp stats.....
    Well you have no proof for sub numbers soo that kinda fucks most your arguments. Regardless i couldnt help but read your post like a Jerry Springer guest.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    Why would they fire the guy who managed to convince you into pre-ordering something you clearly hate?
    Why do we want to fire people who are doing their job at all ?

    Seems to be a modern problem that people think that just because they don't like something, everyone should get fired.

    Due to COVID-19, Germany is running out of sausages and cheese.
    The government considers this to be the Wurst Käse scenario

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Legends303 View Post
    even though we said we not move forward with covenant power if there was enough negative feedback
    Source on this statement? Way left field from how I interpreted their position.
    No wonder you're a bleeding heart statist who abhors freedom. You're an artist.

  19. #119
    Brewmaster khazmodan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tesshin83 View Post
    He worked with Method as a commentator right. He was raiding with Fatboss' guild on Ragnaros. I would know because Ive been on Ragnaros for 15 years.

    He raided with that guild during the world first races.

    Or?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Well you if you want to credit him for the bad things. You should also credit him the good things. Which outweighs the negatives by far.

    Also, Wow is still the largest MMO in a genre of gaming that should be dead and they arr still making more and more money from Wow.

    Blizzard have no specific reason to be uoset with Ion as a game director, unless they are also angry forum posters with little actual information on what is going on.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Every zone in the game would look like Maldraxxus because of mold.
    He raided with Method starting in 2012 as evidenced by this early video of his


    and continued raiding with them into WoD as evidenced by this article
    https://fileunderferal.wordpress.com...ke-preach-wow/

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Palapop View Post
    It is a FACT that WOW is losing subs in ENORMOUS masses.
    You might want to check your facts because the Activision Blizzard investor presentation for the last reported quarter indicates otherwise. "Reach and engagement" increased quarter over quarter and "engagement" in the franchise is the highest it has been ahead of an expansion in a decade. You may think they are lying but lying to investors on official documents is a whole lot of trouble.

    Borrowed power isn't a system. It is just perception. Moving the power from tier/items/talent to an external to your class system. It is the same stuff as always just repackaged so it is easier to forget it each expansion. So they don't need to do completely reworks of talents, or add new talent tiers, etc. Remember 6 tiers of talents was introduced in 2012. A 7th was added in 2014. We have been on a "borrowed power" system since 2012. And arguably since before then since Cataclysm reworked talents as well.

    We actually get more with "borrowed power" then we would with talents and spells that carry on and add to bloat each expansion. Things that get changed a lot anyways or have the borrowed systems baked in so it isn't really borrowed after all.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

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