Is there really a Classic WoW period: Vanilla-WotLK?

[erifwodahs]

Yeah, seems like you didn't play.

https://tbcdb.com/?item=24547 (S1 Gladiator Warrior Pants)
vs.
https://tbcdb.com/?item=29022 (T4 Dps Warrior Pants)

Set bonuses plus stamina is not a dps stat.
Also your DB is flawed.
Also look at this!
T6 https://tbcdb.com/?item=31065 vs
S3 https://tbcdb.com/?item=33748 mind that there is not set bonus for whatever reason. Nice to pick some items which support your lies, huh?

[Mosha]

Not to forget how Blizzard was considered a "small studio" back then. It had the OG creators working on them, original philosophy, altough I remember reading the wrath patch notes which could have been summarized as "YES YOU CAN!" era of wow even comparing to BC.
Spells weren't added and removed within single patches or otherwise, the game had integrity, substance. Yes, it was the golden era.

Blizzard was for sure not a small studio when WoW was released my friend.

[Kralljin]

Set bonuses plus stamina is not a dps stat.

???
Did you actually look at the items?
The T4 pants are straight worse.

T6 https://tbcdb.com/?item=31065 vs
S3 https://tbcdb.com/?item=33748 mind that there is not set bonus for whatever reason.

Seems i have to quote myself.

Was good it good to wear PvP items on every single piece?
Fuck no, but a lot of the individual pieces were equivalent to their PvE counterparts.

"A lot" does not mean "every single item".

Nice to pick some items which support your lies, huh?

Considering that the PvP item is actually superior to the PvE does support my case and is thus not a lie.

[Daffan]

I've seen a few people claim that there is "general consensus" that WoW Classic is actually a WoW period that includes Vanilla, TBC and WotLK. Is it though?

TBC and Wrath introduced 2 of the worst features of WoW: flying mounts and LFG tool. That's where, arguably, "the decline" started.

All of a sudden claiming that Classic period is a thing is a bit disingenuous.

People who include WOTLK are weird. There is a reason people call those people Wrath baby

[Doffen]

People who include WOTLK are weird. There is a reason people call those people Wrath baby

Yeah, I wouldn't include WotLK into this. Like hardware wise, sure, but game design wise only TBC was similar to vanilla. WotLK was the start of the stuff we see today, retail WoW.

[Utrrabbit]

Even today i don't really believe that Mists of Pandaria was a real thing. It looks so stupid and so much away from what the playerbase liked about the game that i still can't believe they really released something like that.

I do understand that it's not easy to manage something like Blizzard and the Dev-Team for something like World of Warcraft. But don't you think it's a relastic idea and task to give Classic new content without releasing BC again?

Mop was amazing. Had fantastic leveling, beautiful zones and some of the best raids they have made. You are welcome to your opinion. But please know you are wrong.

[Mosha]

Mop was amazing. Had fantastic leveling, beautiful zones and some of the best raids they have made. You are welcome to your opinion. But please know you are wrong.

Mop was absolute dogshit. Who took over 10 million subs and dropped it to 6 in one expansion? That would be mop.

[Lei]

Blizzard was for sure not a small studio when WoW was released my friend.

I should have specified a little bit. The whole OG wow dev team consisted of fourty-something or sixty-something people.

But then compare the whole Blizzard studio from 2004 to today's. Even just the sheer amount of games will tell you that it has grown tremendously. And then the Activision fusion in 2008...

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Mop was absolute dogshit. Who took over 10 million subs and dropped it to 6 in one expansion? That would be mop.

Well blame the idiots who jumped on the "lol, kungfu pandas" bandwagon. Mop was great. And I am someone who did not dislike pandas but wasn't very happy with the initial release trailer. The expansion slowly made me fell in love with it.

[kranur]

I should have specified a little bit. The whole OG wow dev team consisted of fourty-something or sixty-something people.

But then compare the whole Blizzard studio from 2004 to today's. Even just the sheer amount of games will tell you that it has grown tremendously. And then the Activision fusion in 2008...

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Well blame the idiots who jumped on the "lol, kungfu pandas" bandwagon. Mop was great. And I am someone who did not dislike pandas but wasn't very happy with the initial release trailer. The expansion slowly made me fell in love with it.

Aside from Isle of Thunder and a bit of dread wastes, it was a boring panda shit show, but hey, everyone with their opinions.

[Lei]

Aside from Isle of Thunder and a bit of dread wastes, it was a boring panda shit show, but hey, everyone with their opinions.

Panda shit show? You mean quest givers were pandas? In patch 5.1 Landfall (Alli vs Horde patch)? Won't mention 5.2 because you liked it. Patch 5.3 Escalation? (Alli vs horde) Patch 5.4 crazy orc warchief + timeless isle.
Maybe the initial questing experience and end game content yes, had pandas although I'm not sure if the story itself was panda-y, I mean just how much meme panda-y the sha, the klaxxi, the mogu? are? Or you really meant asian?

[Mosha]

I should have specified a little bit. The whole OG wow dev team consisted of fourty-something or sixty-something people.

But then compare the whole Blizzard studio from 2004 to today's. Even just the sheer amount of games will tell you that it has grown tremendously. And then the Activision fusion in 2008...

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Well blame the idiots who jumped on the "lol, kungfu pandas" bandwagon. Mop was great. And I am someone who did not dislike pandas but wasn't very happy with the initial release trailer. The expansion slowly made me fell in love with it.

I’ll blame mop lol. I played all of mop, I will admit some raids were really fun, but for me that didn’t make up for how trash the game at its core felt. Cross realms became a thing, the gear progression was solidified to the trash that is ‘hit end level>do weekly boring stuff half asleep>do lfr>??’

It just wasn’t fun anymore. A lot of people felt this way but I had a personal goal of getting glad with a friend so I stayed in the game. The pvp was absolutely boring as well. The games went on forever unless there was a random bug or glitch that some classes had. MoP took every system in the game that people hated in cata and just kept going with it basically confirming to a lot of people “this is what the game is now, deal with It and pick your vegetables”

[arkanon]

People who include WOTLK are weird. There is a reason people call those people Wrath baby

I always thought Wrath Baby referred to the influx of NEW players who STARTED in wrath. Have i been using it wrong all these years?

[Mosha]

I always thought Wrath Baby referred to the influx of NEW players who STARTED in wrath. Have i been using it wrong all these years?

No you’re using it right this guy must be saying this because anyone who says this doesn’t know what the game was like

[arkanon]

Panda shit show? You mean quest givers were pandas? In patch 5.1 Landfall (Alli vs Horde patch)? Won't mention 5.2 because you liked it. Patch 5.3 Escalation? (Alli vs horde) Patch 5.4 crazy orc warchief + timeless isle.
Maybe the initial questing experience and end game content yes, had pandas although I'm not sure if the story itself was panda-y, I mean just how much meme panda-y the sha, the klaxxi, the mogu? are? Or you really meant asian?

I have always been honest about this - i didnt like the focus on pandas. I understood it, its their fucking homeland - they live there, ofc its heavily populated by pandas. Some stuff was overly cutesy for me, from memory the quest chain that lead to the brewery dungeon when you had to run around as the little girl hearing all the stories - that bugged the hell outa me. BUT the Asian influenced stuff did NOT bother me, and i felt the quite nasty overtones of the expansion balanced out the cutesy little baby panda stuff.

It had some fantastic raids, i really enjoyed most classes (not all, but most) the leveling was decent, but again, not amazing. I actually thought the leveling was quite heavy on gimmicks, which was no doubt an attempt at breaking up the "go kill 10 baddies" stuff, but it really did start to grind on me during future play through (i have a lot of alts). In this respect, it was ok during the first play through, but picking veggies and carrying around vials of liquid trying not to spill it is a bit tedious over multiple play-throughs.

In the end, i really enjoyed mop, and i felt the difference between when you leveld up, to the threat level at endgame and subsequent tiers of progression was really a great escalation. It felt like as you uncovered the REAL threat, things just grew in scale and danger, and that was really cool.

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No you’re using it right this guy must be saying this because anyone who says this doesn’t know what the game was like

Ah, good, because otherwise i would have about 25,000 ppl to apologize to over the last 15 years of trolling in chat calling everyone a wrath baby to watch the fireworks. PHEW,.

[letssee]

You either include Cata in your list, or you exclude WotLK.

WotLK has nothing in common with TBC, but A LOT in common with Cata. In fact, if you compare each expansion to the ones immediately before and after, WotLK and Cata are the two expansions that look the most similair, and it's not even a contest.

lol what?

cata had lfr
cata started pruning, both talents and spells
cata removed a lot of stats
cata changed the world

please.. yea wotlk had some stuff, but cata really is the major turning point

[ThrashMetalFtw]

WotLK added LFD, which did a lot more to damage the community than LFR could ever hope to.

Imagine using Cata as an example of pruning, when Cata (together with MoP) was responsible for most of the ability bloat that eventually led to the first ability prune. The first ability prune happened in WoD btw.

And Cata still had the old talents, the new ones were added in MoP.

Cata removed Arp and added Mastery, which for most classes does the same thing that Arp used to do: A multiplier for your ap/sp to smale from. With the added benefit of being used by everybody, not just physical dps.

The old world was never used after Kara in early TBC, so it might aswell have been redesigned much earlier than Cata, without changing anything.


Cata is a carboncopy of the gamedesign and philosophy of 3.2 and 3.3, with (much) better classdesign.

[Oxyfuelcutter]

Yeah, I wouldn't include WotLK into this. Like hardware wise, sure, but game design wise only TBC was similar to vanilla. WotLK was the start of the stuff we see today, retail WoW.

Yup the whole athmosphere changed in wotlk.

[Mosha]

The old world was never used after Kara in early TBC, so it might aswell have been redesigned much earlier than Cata, without changing anything.

You might want to rethink this really quick.

[wiffl]

Mop was amazing. Had fantastic leveling, beautiful zones and some of the best raids they have made. You are welcome to your opinion. But please know you are wrong.

It's obvious that you are trolling or very young.
But for real. I don't argue with the fact that the expansion may have technicaly good parts. But as you can see, it was a horrible idea to take that path.

[Biglog]

Mostly yes. The end of wotlk was when the design team made the shift to make the game more casual. Removal of the faction restriction per realm (killed off most wpvp). Flying introduced with cata finished off wpvp. Profs were nerfed to be far less essential. Talent trees were greatly simplified. Reagents (including ammo for hunters) removed. I could go on. All that happened around the Ruby Sanctum patch at the end of wotlk. So yes it was a huge shift in the game that took place at that time.

Whether you call that the "classic wow period" I guess is subjective though. I would call it that. But I could see people including up to mop in it.