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  1. #201
    Herald of the Titans Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stelio Kontos View Post
    I'm literally not even a citizen, so yeah, I'm not an American.
    Ok, let side that for now, let's get back to topic.

    I'll post it again for you and even bold the important part:

    "In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

    Killing members of the group;
    Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
    Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
    Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
    Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

    THat's the UN definition, and I'd argue it fits. Why do you think it doesn't, or if you don't agree with this definition, what definition are you using?

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    You are hiding behind legality? did you look it up? because it only mentions nationality which this meets not number wise. Even if it wasn't an election year it would meet the definition, Do you think Hitler started with the number he got? These programs start small in secrecy with people like you hand waving and ignore it while the programs grow.
    Yes, I get it, it's 2020 and America is gonna murder all the Mexicans under Trump, only Biden can save the US from becoming Nazi Germany 2.0.

    I was just saying words lose meaning if it's applied wantonly. Call out abuses, by all means, but when you hyperbolize it, the word loses its meaning.

    That being said, I'll bow out. Return to your Orange Man Bad daisy-chain.
    [Infraction]
    Last edited by Rozz; 2020-09-18 at 03:02 PM. Reason: Forbidden Topics
    Rest in Power Aaron Danielson, David Dorn, Horace Lorenzo Anderson Jr., and Jessica Doty Whitaker.
    Artsakh is Armenia.
    Quote Originally Posted by kidkilla View Post
    The Ottomans brought civilization to Greece.
    Oh my...

  3. #203
    Herald of the Titans Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stelio Kontos View Post
    Yes, I get it, it's 2020 and America is gonna murder all the Mexicans under Trump, only Biden can save the US from becoming Nazi Germany 2.0.

    I was just saying words lose meaning if it's applied wantonly. Call out abuses, by all means, but when you hyperbolize it, the word loses its meaning.

    That being said, I'll bow out. Return to your Orange Man Bad daisy-chain.
    We have 11 pages of the meaning of the word genocide. You think it overblown but still haven't provided why you think the word is used wrong in this instance?

    Will you please share your definition if you keep on harking that we're using it wrong?

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Stelio Kontos View Post
    Yes, I get it, it's 2020 and America is gonna murder all the Mexicans under Trump, only Biden can save the US from becoming Nazi Germany 2.0.

    I was just saying words lose meaning if it's applied wantonly. Call out abuses, by all means, but when you hyperbolize it, the word loses its meaning.

    That being said, I'll bow out. Return to your Orange Man Bad daisy-chain.
    Way to miss the point go back to minimizing programs like this.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    We have 11 pages of the meaning of the word genocide. You think it overblown but still haven't provided why you think the word is used wrong in this instance?
    It may or may not be overblown. However you almost certainly would be ignoring this if it were going on under Biden rather than Trump. Your sole interest in this is bashing Trump.

    This characterizes virtually every democrat response to Trump. You are just sore he and the republican elite got to do all this fucking horrible neo-nazi shit rather than your crowd. This is why almost everyone fucking hates Americans.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by truntlont View Post
    It may or may not be overblown. However you almost certainly would be ignoring this if it were going on under Biden rather than Trump. Your sole interest in this is bashing Trump.

    This characterizes virtually every democrat response to Trump. You are just sore he and the republican elite got to do all this fucking horrible neo-nazi shit rather than your crowd. This is why almost everyone fucking hates Americans.
    Wait, you think the Democrats would do this? How do you come to that conclusion? Because the Democrats don't have this, at all.

  7. #207
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stelio Kontos View Post
    That being said, I'll bow out. Return to your Orange Man Bad daisy-chain.
    It’s sad that your concern over people being force sterilized, is how it impacts Trump.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  8. #208
    Herald of the Titans Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by truntlont View Post
    It may or may not be overblown. However you almost certainly would be ignoring this if it were going on under Biden rather than Trump. Your sole interest in this is bashing Trump.

    This characterizes virtually every democrat response to Trump. You are just sore he and the republican elite got to do all this fucking horrible neo-nazi shit rather than your crowd. This is why almost everyone fucking hates Americans.
    Actually no, i have no problem with calling out any authoritarian shit, even for the party if vote myself. It's also funny as i'm not from the US but the other side of the globe, so... go figure?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    It’s sad that your concern over people being force sterilized, is how it impacts Trump.
    I think you need to call these people out. He is another one that comes into this thread, just argues that he feels it is overblown without providing any arguments, and ignoring the definition of the word while literally harking about how we are using it wrong (which in itself is just hilarious), and we're just immaturely bashing trump, not seeing how fucking hypocritical that is.

    There are only 2 options at this point:

    They're either really stupid and lack any self-reflection
    Or they're supporters of authoritarian politics and don't want to openly admit.

    Just keep that in mind when he pops back up in a thread and ask him - will do for sure.
    [Infraction]
    Last edited by Rozz; 2020-09-18 at 03:05 PM. Reason: Minor Flaming

  9. #209
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    There are only 2 options at this point:
    There is only one option that makes people see everything through the lens of it impacting Trump. WWDD... What Would Donald Do... I think that’s as overt as I can be, while not touching forbidden topics.

    Edit: Oh and the obvious flaw for WWDD crowed... your missing the rich daddy... you can’t afford to act like an elitist NYC oligarch...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Stelio Kontos View Post
    The only actual genocide going on right now is being committed by the Chinese Communist Party against the Uighurs.
    Trump held off sanctioning Chinese over Uighurs to pursue trade deal
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53138833

    John Bolton’s Book Claims Trump Called Muslim Concentration Camps in China the “Right Thing to Do”
    https://www.motherjones.com/politics...muslims-china/

    Remember when everyone was up in arms for Blizzard blocking China criticism for financial gain. Any word about Trump ignoring their genocide, for gains of a trade deal, in a trade war he started?
    Last edited by Felya; 2020-09-18 at 12:27 PM.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  10. #210
    Herald of the Titans Vorkreist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Quite a bit considering it was an ostensibly capitalist country doing it.
    Thanks for proving again how silly those commie mental gymnastics work.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    We have 11 pages of the meaning of the word genocide. You think it overblown but still haven't provided why you think the word is used wrong in this instance?

    Will you please share your definition if you keep on harking that we're using it wrong?
    Obviously, genocide refers to actions taken on a large scale. One doctor at one clinic doesn't do it.

    Using words like this wrong is so counterproductive to liberal arguments, because the exaggerated claims become easy to dismiss. Mods should change the title of this thread, any honest accounting would admit that it's misleading.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    Thanks for proving again how silly those commie mental gymnastics work.
    Not to defend communism, but China is about as communist as North Korea is democratic.

    Just because it is in the name it doesn't mean it's real.

    China is a nationalist oligarchical autocracy with a mixed market economy.

    The US is just one Republican election victory away from being pretty much the same damn thing. We just haven't gone full autocracy yet.

    So yeah, pot calling kettle black.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  13. #213
    Herald of the Titans Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Obviously, genocide refers to actions taken on a large scale. One doctor at one clinic doesn't do it.

    Using words like this wrong is so counterproductive to liberal arguments, because the exaggerated claims become easy to dismiss. Mods should change the title of this thread, any honest accounting would admit that it's misleading.
    The intent is the most difficult element to determine. To constitute genocide, there must be a proven intent on the part of perpetrators to physically destroy a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. Cultural destruction does not suffice, nor does an intention to simply disperse a group. It is this special intent, or dolus specialis, that makes the crime of genocide so unique. In addition, case law has associated intent with the existence of a State or organizational plan or policy, even if the definition of genocide in international law does not include that element.

    Maybe i'm reading this wrong - not my native language - but this seems quite clear: https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml

    If the whole clinic is involved it is probably more than just one person, but please feel free to point out where this is required. And i'm specifically talking about the definition of genocide, not the crime, not the possibility of people getting convicted on grounds of genocide, or anything else.

    Talking about the LITERAL definition of the word. So go ahead.
    Last edited by Pannonian; 2020-09-18 at 03:54 PM.

  14. #214
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Obviously, genocide refers to actions taken on a large scale. One doctor at one clinic doesn't do it.

    Using words like this wrong is so counterproductive to liberal arguments, because the exaggerated claims become easy to dismiss. Mods should change the title of this thread, any honest accounting would admit that it's misleading.
    I don’t think having people complain about the meaning of genocide, instead of the horrifying actions detailed in the OP, is counter productive at all... seems apt in showing the rational that keeps history repeating.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Maybe i'm reading this wrong - not my native language - but this seems quite clear:
    You are fine... no need to second guess your English. If you haven’t said anything... and since I didn’t look at your location until now... I wouldn’t have known.

    This isn’t an issue of English barrier and semantic argument rarely depend on it. In fact, someone with poor English, wouldn’t be able to make a semantic argument.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  15. #215
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    The intent is the most difficult element to determine. To constitute genocide, there must be a proven intent on the part of perpetrators to physically destroy a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. Cultural destruction does not suffice, nor does an intention to simply disperse a group. It is this special intent, or dolus specialis, that makes the crime of genocide so unique. In addition, case law has associated intent with the existence of a State or organizational plan or policy, even if the definition of genocide in international law does not include that element.

    Maybe i'm reading this wrong - not my native language - but this seems quite clear: https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml

    If the whole clinic is involved it is probably more than just one person, but please feel free to point out where this is required. And i'm specifically talking about the definition of genocide, not the crime, not the possibility of people getting convicted on grounds of genocide, or anything else.

    Talking about the LITERAL definition of the word. So go ahead.
    This is rather important, it’s not just one rouge mad doctor that’s doing this all alone like bloody Frankenstein it’s the support staff, the people who have to transport the patients, the people keeping the records, the people okaying the doctor and his staff to do this, and likely more that aren’t on the top of my mind.

    Things like this don’t just happen on there Own.

  16. #216
    I am Murloc! Logwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Genocide need not be done by a large number of people and actually if often is a left-right issue. Generally, it is the right going off and committing these atrocities not the progressive left.
    I would say both sides have their hands in the pot.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    I would say both sides have their hands in the pot.
    .... based on what? Fantasy??

  18. #218
    I am Murloc! Logwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    .... based on what? Fantasy??
    You've never heard of Stalin, Mao.... Do I really need to list them?

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    You've never heard of Stalin, Mao.... Do I really need to list them?
    Why do right wingers do this with literally everything?

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Why do right wingers do this with literally everything?
    Because they don't know or care for facts and history.

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