Genocide On The Border

[Stelio Kontos]

Nice Whataboutism, but what should i expect of genocide-cheerleaders?

Maybe you're not aware of this, but you can condem more than one genocide at a time. Shocking, i know!

I'm not saying abuses aren't occurring. I'm saying it's not a systemic slaughter like is happening in Xinjiang. There's a pretty big spectrum there, with genocide being the extreme end, and legally, I don't believe what's happening on the border can be classified as genocide. China recently admitted more than 1.3 million Uighurs are being brought in a year. I don't think you can bring up anything happening in the US that would match that scale.

[Draco-Onis]

I'm not saying abuses aren't occurring. I'm saying it's not a systemic slaughter like is happening in Xinjiang. There's a pretty big spectrum there, with genocide being the extreme end, and legally, I don't believe what's happening on the border can be classified as genocide. China recently admitted more than 1.3 million Uighurs are being brought in a year. I don't think you can bring up anything happening in the US that would match that scale.

How many people being forcibly sterilized, molested and brutalized are you comfortable with?

[Stelio Kontos]

How many people being forcibly sterilized, molested and brutalized are you comfortable with?

I'm not comfortable with any of it. I'm just saying the word genocide is wrong here in this context. Are abuses occurring? Absolutely. Should they be stopped and prosecuted? Absolutely. Does it reach the levels of Nazi or Ottoman actions, like the Chinese Communist Party is doing? No, they don't. I'm more against hyperbole than against calling out the abuse when it happens.

[Draco-Onis]

I'm not comfortable with any of it. I'm just saying the word genocide is wrong here in this context. Are abuses occurring? Absolutely. Should they be stopped and prosecuted? Absolutely. Does it reach the levels of Nazi or Ottoman actions, like the Chinese Communist Party is doing? No, they don't. I'm more against hyperbole than against calling out the abuse when it happens.

There is no set number for the definition of the word you are basically saying until it reaches million it's not a genocide. That's not really how that works the point is to stop it until it reaches that level until then you are basically giving it a free pass. It's not hyperbole to call it what it is to bring attention and make sure it doesn't reach that level, these countries didn't start with million.

[keldarepewpew]

Key word - movie. People can be hilariously evil and fit the stereotype of a crazy doctor death only in the gullible minds of left wingers. In reality there are 3 likely possibilities:

1) this story is completely fictional and made up for attention because the whistleblower knows that left wingers are gullible and will gobble it up without question.
2) this story is blown grossly out of proportion but there were hysterectomies carried out that were medically necessary but the patients didn't understand their necessity and became distraught over it and the whistleblower is an opportunist looking to rile up gullible left winger.
3) it is medical malpractice and unnecessary hysterectomies are being carried out. Once again, not genocide. There have been millions of cases of doctors forcing women into unnecessary and dangerous procedures - faulty mesh implants being chief among them. But no one alleged genocide in those cases.

Until hard video or documentary evidence comes out, no one is sterilizing those women to commit genocide in the USA. Actually there is a country that does just that with hard video and documentary proof widely available online - China. But none of the left wingers dare stand up to their Chinese overlords.

Wrong you forgot the 4the option he found a way to do very costly operations on a group who would not be able to file complaints and so was raking in loads of money from medcare. You forgot greed the most obvious answer. He was already convicted in the past of trying to get more money then he was owed by filing false claims to medcare.

[Stelio Kontos]

There is no set number for the definition of the word you are basically saying until it reaches million it's not a genocide. That's not really how that works the point is to stop it until it reaches that level until then you are basically giving it a free pass. It's not hyperbole to call it what it is to bring attention and make sure it doesn't reach that level, you are basically siding with the monsters.

There is a legal definition of what actions reach genocide, though. Saying something doesn't meet the threshold for the very end of the spectrum doesn't mean one is condoning the abuses that are being done. I understand it's an election year and hyperbole is the whole point, but words do have meanings.

[Pannonian]

I'm not comfortable with any of it. I'm just saying the word genocide is wrong here in this context. Are abuses occurring? Absolutely. Should they be stopped and prosecuted? Absolutely. Does it reach the levels of Nazi or Ottoman actions, like the Chinese Communist Party is doing? No, they don't. I'm more against hyperbole than against calling out the abuse when it happens.

I know very well it that it is not a pleasent thought that your own country is doing shit, but just because it isn't comfortable doesn't mean it does not happen.

Does it match the sacle of the Holocaust, or the Armenian genocide, or the genocide Julius Caesar subjected Gaul to? No, but that is also not the bar(r) for genocide. It must not be the worst example of genocide to be genocide.

The same goes for concentration camps themselves. Just because they aren't Nazi death camps, doesn't mean it cannot be a concentration camp. Words have meaning (as you yourself just stated), that may not correlate with your feelings.

And let's be frank here, by downplaying it, you're noramlizing it. Call stuff by its name, even if it hurts feelings. Wasn't that the shtick?

[Stelio Kontos]

I know very well it that it is not a pleasent thought that your own country is doing shit, but just because it isn't comfortable doesn't mean it does not happen.

Does it match the sacle of the Holocaust, or the Armenian genocide, or the genocide Julius Caesar subjected Gaul to? No, but that is also not the bar(r) for genocide. It must not be the worst example of genocide to be genocide.

And let's be frank here, by downplaying it, you're noramlizing it. Call stuff by its name, even if it hurts feelings. Wasn't that the shtick?

I'm Greek, it's not my country beyond the fact I live there. Want to try again?

[Pannonian]

There is a legal definition of what actions reach genocide, though. Saying something doesn't meet the threshold for the very end of the spectrum doesn't mean one is condoning the abuses that are being done. I understand it's an election year and hyperbole is the whole point, but words do have meanings.

And here we have a problem. The definition has been posted enough times here, and i'd say it fits. What definition of genocide are you using that it doesn't amount to it?

Hint: It must be the same like the Holocaust is NOT the definition of genocide.

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I'm Greek, it's not my country beyond the fact I live there. Want to try again?

Yeah, i don't subscribe to that blood stuff. If you live in the US you're for all purposes an american to me. If we start down this road, NO one is american, and no one is european.

[Stelio Kontos]

Yeah, i don't subscribe to that blood stuff. If you live in the US you're for all purposes an american to me. If we start down this road, NO one is american, and no one is european.

I'm literally not even a citizen, so yeah, I'm not an American.

[Draco-Onis]

There is a legal definition of what actions reach genocide, though. Saying something doesn't meet the threshold for the very end of the spectrum doesn't mean one is condoning the abuses that are being done. I understand it's an election year and hyperbole is the whole point, but words do have meanings.

You are hiding behind legality? did you look it up? because it only mentions nationality which this meets not number wise. Even if it wasn't an election year it would meet the definition, Do you think Hitler started with the number he got? These programs start small in secrecy with people like you hand waving and ignore it while the programs grow.

[Pannonian]

I'm literally not even a citizen, so yeah, I'm not an American.

Ok, let side that for now, let's get back to topic.

I'll post it again for you and even bold the important part:

"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

THat's the UN definition, and I'd argue it fits. Why do you think it doesn't, or if you don't agree with this definition, what definition are you using?

[Stelio Kontos]

You are hiding behind legality? did you look it up? because it only mentions nationality which this meets not number wise. Even if it wasn't an election year it would meet the definition, Do you think Hitler started with the number he got? These programs start small in secrecy with people like you hand waving and ignore it while the programs grow.

Yes, I get it, it's 2020 and America is gonna murder all the Mexicans under Trump, only Biden can save the US from becoming Nazi Germany 2.0.

I was just saying words lose meaning if it's applied wantonly. Call out abuses, by all means, but when you hyperbolize it, the word loses its meaning.

That being said, I'll bow out. Return to your Orange Man Bad daisy-chain.
[Infraction]

[Pannonian]

Yes, I get it, it's 2020 and America is gonna murder all the Mexicans under Trump, only Biden can save the US from becoming Nazi Germany 2.0.

I was just saying words lose meaning if it's applied wantonly. Call out abuses, by all means, but when you hyperbolize it, the word loses its meaning.

That being said, I'll bow out. Return to your Orange Man Bad daisy-chain.

We have 11 pages of the meaning of the word genocide. You think it overblown but still haven't provided why you think the word is used wrong in this instance?

Will you please share your definition if you keep on harking that we're using it wrong?

[Draco-Onis]

Yes, I get it, it's 2020 and America is gonna murder all the Mexicans under Trump, only Biden can save the US from becoming Nazi Germany 2.0.

I was just saying words lose meaning if it's applied wantonly. Call out abuses, by all means, but when you hyperbolize it, the word loses its meaning.

That being said, I'll bow out. Return to your Orange Man Bad daisy-chain.

Way to miss the point go back to minimizing programs like this.

[truntlont]

We have 11 pages of the meaning of the word genocide. You think it overblown but still haven't provided why you think the word is used wrong in this instance?

It may or may not be overblown. However you almost certainly would be ignoring this if it were going on under Biden rather than Trump. Your sole interest in this is bashing Trump.

This characterizes virtually every democrat response to Trump. You are just sore he and the republican elite got to do all this fucking horrible neo-nazi shit rather than your crowd. This is why almost everyone fucking hates Americans.

[postman1782]

It may or may not be overblown. However you almost certainly would be ignoring this if it were going on under Biden rather than Trump. Your sole interest in this is bashing Trump.

This characterizes virtually every democrat response to Trump. You are just sore he and the republican elite got to do all this fucking horrible neo-nazi shit rather than your crowd. This is why almost everyone fucking hates Americans.

Wait, you think the Democrats would do this? How do you come to that conclusion? Because the Democrats don't have this, at all.

[Felya]

That being said, I'll bow out. Return to your Orange Man Bad daisy-chain.

It’s sad that your concern over people being force sterilized, is how it impacts Trump.

[Pannonian]

It may or may not be overblown. However you almost certainly would be ignoring this if it were going on under Biden rather than Trump. Your sole interest in this is bashing Trump.

This characterizes virtually every democrat response to Trump. You are just sore he and the republican elite got to do all this fucking horrible neo-nazi shit rather than your crowd. This is why almost everyone fucking hates Americans.

Actually no, i have no problem with calling out any authoritarian shit, even for the party if vote myself. It's also funny as i'm not from the US but the other side of the globe, so... go figure?

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It’s sad that your concern over people being force sterilized, is how it impacts Trump.

I think you need to call these people out. He is another one that comes into this thread, just argues that he feels it is overblown without providing any arguments, and ignoring the definition of the word while literally harking about how we are using it wrong (which in itself is just hilarious), and we're just immaturely bashing trump, not seeing how fucking hypocritical that is.

There are only 2 options at this point:

They're either really stupid and lack any self-reflection
Or they're supporters of authoritarian politics and don't want to openly admit.

Just keep that in mind when he pops back up in a thread and ask him - will do for sure.
[Infraction]

[Felya]

There are only 2 options at this point:

There is only one option that makes people see everything through the lens of it impacting Trump. WWDD... What Would Donald Do... I think that’s as overt as I can be, while not touching forbidden topics.

Edit: Oh and the obvious flaw for WWDD crowed... your missing the rich daddy... you can’t afford to act like an elitist NYC oligarch...

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The only actual genocide going on right now is being committed by the Chinese Communist Party against the Uighurs.

Trump held off sanctioning Chinese over Uighurs to pursue trade deal
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53138833

John Bolton’s Book Claims Trump Called Muslim Concentration Camps in China the “Right Thing to Do”
https://www.motherjones.com/politics...muslims-china/

Remember when everyone was up in arms for Blizzard blocking China criticism for financial gain. Any word about Trump ignoring their genocide, for gains of a trade deal, in a trade war he started?