N'Zoth: Drown her... And You Will See. Sylvanas Speculation

[SardaukarMikhail]

So I want to see your posts, do you agree this whisper refers to Sylvanas? If not, who does it refer to and what does it mean to drown them?

Perhaps deep in Torghast there is a well. It's surface blazes bright, but it masks shadows below. After we do the impossible and defeat the Jailer, we drop a dying Sylvanas in it so we can rid of her. Any other method would result in her return. This well has a connection to the Void. In Sylvanas's final moments, as she ponders her life... Her fall to Arthas which she though was the end, her suicide at Ice Crown Citadel, she thought was the end, and now her defeat in the Shadowlands, she knows this time, it's the end.

The Void reaches out like they did to Queen Azshara. Sylvanas Makes one final deal opening a rift like she did between Azeroth and the Shadowlands. She opens a rift between the Void and the Shadowlands. We are unsure of Sylvanas's fate in the aftermath.

The Voids forces come through this well, overwhelming the Shadowlands and seek the titan sole on Azeroth next. We barely manage to escape the Shadowlands. It looks grim, we are waiting for Voids inevitable invasion of Azeroth.

The void finds a prisoner in the Maw they seek mold into their new champion, his name.....is Arthas.

[Varitok]

My main issue with the whispers from N'zoth and Ilgynoth is that, instead of decieving us, they are straight up just telling us what is going to happen and I greatly dislike that.

[Very rare pepe]

The void finds a prisoner in the Maw they seek mold into their new champion, his name.....is Arthas.

lol gimme a break

[Kokolums]

My main issue with the whispers from N'zoth and Ilgynoth is that, instead of decieving us, they are straight up just telling us what is going to happen and I greatly dislike that.

The void can see the future and knows what is going on. That is why the Nazrethim are manipulating all the other forces to destroy the void first. The Nazrethim see the void as the biggest threat and so they sabotaged their credibility to the point where even if they tell the truth, no one believes them.

[Hekazi]

So I want to see your posts, do you agree this whisper refers to Sylvanas? If not, who does it refer to and what does it mean to drown them?

Perhaps deep in Torghast there is a well. It's surface blazes bright, but it masks shadows below. After we do the impossible and defeat the Jailer, we drop a dying Sylvanas in it so we can rid of her. Any other method would result in her return. This well has a connection to the Void. In Sylvanas's final moments, as she ponders her life... Her fall to Arthas which she though was the end, her suicide at Ice Crown Citadel, she thought was the end, and now her defeat in the Shadowlands, she knows this time, it's the end.

The Void reaches out like they did to Queen Azshara. Sylvanas Makes one final deal opening a rift like she did between Azeroth and the Shadowlands. She opens a rift between the Void and the Shadowlands. We are unsure of Sylvanas's fate in the aftermath.

The Voids forces come through this well, overwhelming the Shadowlands and seek the titan sole on Azeroth next. We barely manage to escape the Shadowlands. It looks grim, we are waiting for Voids inevitable invasion of Azeroth.

The void finds a prisoner in the Maw they seek mold into their new champion, his name.....is Arthas.

At the hour of her third death, she ushers in our coming.
Shadowlands will end with the coming of the voidlords, or their high ranking officers.

[gcsmith]

The void can see the future and knows what is going on. That is why the Nazrethim are manipulating all the other forces to destroy the void first. The Nazrethim see the void as the biggest threat and so they sabotaged their credibility to the point where even if they tell the truth, no one believes them.

Not quite. The problem is the void see's all futures as true, which is why they even trusted the Nethrazim in the first place, because presumably there are futures where they're devoted to the void. Or being from shadowlands makes them immune to the Voids predictions?

[Kokolums]

Not quite. The problem is the void see's all futures as true, which is why they even trusted the Nethrazim in the first place, because presumably there are futures where they're devoted to the void. Or being from shadowlands makes them immune to the Voids predictions?

They definitely do not see all futures as true. If they did, their predictions of the future would be almost always wrong. Their predictions of the future are almost always right. They have been accurately making calls on our future for this entire time.

[Aucald]

They definitely do not see all futures as true. If they did, their predictions of the future would be almost always wrong. Their predictions of the future are almost always right. They have been accurately making calls on our future for this entire time.

I don't know - my PC has yet to betray his friends, or have his heart explode. I'm also quite rid of Il'gynoth as he dissolved along with the dream of Ny'alotha, I haven't been betrayed by my friends, or run screaming into the black forest, and about a thousand other things the Old Gods have told me have happened, is happening, or will happen.

[nyuumetsu]

At the hour of her third death, she ushers in our coming.
Shadowlands will end with the coming of the voidlords, or their high ranking officers.

the unfortunate part about this is sylvanas has died 3 times already.

Once vs arthas during his campaign to the sunwell.

second when she jumped off the top of icecrown.

the third one people forget about is when she is shot in the back of the head and revived by the valk'yr after lord godfrey betrays her.

[Varodoc]

The "third death" whisper obviously referred to Azshara, not Alleria or Sylvanas. People forget that Il'gynoth was a servant of N'zoth, and an extension of his will. "Our coming" referred to N'zoth's coming, which Azshara ushered. Why Il'gynoth mentioned "three deaths" instead of "two"? Because the beings of the Void are not perfect, they cannot see the actual future, only infinite possibilities, so the whisper was only half-true. It was indeed a woman who ushered in the Old God return, and she did so upon dying, but that was not her third death.

"Drown her and you will see", again refers to Azshara. She was in the Circle of Stars ("to find him, drown yourself in the Circle of Stars") when players killed her, or almost killed her (doesnt matter anyway).

[Kokolums]

I don't know - my PC has yet to betray his friends, or have his heart explode. I'm also quite rid of Il'gynoth as he dissolved along with the dream of Ny'alotha, I haven't been betrayed by my friends, or run screaming into the black forest, and about a thousand other things the Old Gods have told me have happened, is happening, or will happen.

Those are just threats. When they predict the future, I'm talking about how they are making specific predictions with details that come true.

- - - Updated - - -

The "third death" whisper obviously referred to Azshara, not Alleria or Sylvanas. People forget that Il'gynoth was a servant of N'zoth, and an extension of his will. "Our coming" referred to N'zoth's coming, which Azshara ushered. Why Il'gynoth mentioned "three deaths" instead of "two"? Because the beings of the Void are not perfect, they cannot see the actual future, only infinite possibilities, so the whisper was only half-true. It was indeed a woman who ushered in the Old God return, and she did so upon dying, but that was not her third death.

"Drown her and you will see", again refers to Azshara. She was in the Circle of Stars ("to find him, drown yourself in the Circle of Stars") when players killed her, or almost killed her (doesnt matter anyway).

Azshara is still alive. Her third death may be coming. That prophecy may be fulfilled in the future.

[Garymorilix]

I don't know - my PC has yet to betray his friends, or have his heart explode. I'm also quite rid of Il'gynoth as he dissolved along with the dream of Ny'alotha, I haven't been betrayed by my friends, or run screaming into the black forest, and about a thousand other things the Old Gods have told me have happened, is happening, or will happen.

While this is true, that's mostly the "madness" flavor talk.

Whenever they actually reference in-game characters or events they are 100% correct. They don't lie if you ignore the generic doomsaying evil talk.

[Houle]

The "third death" whisper obviously referred to Azshara, not Alleria or Sylvanas. People forget that Il'gynoth was a servant of N'zoth, and an extension of his will. "Our coming" referred to N'zoth's coming, which Azshara ushered. Why Il'gynoth mentioned "three deaths" instead of "two"? Because the beings of the Void are not perfect, they cannot see the actual future, only infinite possibilities, so the whisper was only half-true. It was indeed a woman who ushered in the Old God return, and she did so upon dying, but that was not her third death.

"Drown her and you will see", again refers to Azshara. She was in the Circle of Stars ("to find him, drown yourself in the Circle of Stars") when players killed her, or almost killed her (doesnt matter anyway).

now thats a reach
il'gynoth seemed far more aware than the generic old god minion. and also, azsharah still isnt dead. we dont know if she died at the end of her raid (didnt really look like it tho) but shes definitely still alive right now
and finally, it would make no sense for blizz to make him say "third" when they mean "second". the whispers are used to tease players about things to come. making one a straight up lie would serve no purpose

[Varodoc]

now thats a reach
il'gynoth seemed far more aware than the generic old god minion. and also, azsharah still isnt dead. we dont know if she died at the end of her raid (didnt really look like it tho) but shes definitely still alive right now
and fnally, it would make no sense for blizz to make him say "third" ´when they mean "second". the whispers are used to tease players about things to come. making one a straight up lie would serve no purpose

It is not a reach.

The Void shows only half truths.[9] It cannot fully see destiny, though neither can the Light, because neither are singularly responsible for creation. The Void seeks every possible path and sees them all as truth.[10]

Il'gynoth seems more aware than the others, but in the end he is just another Void creature. He is not omniscient.

I never said it is a lie. I said it is a false prediction. It is an established fact that Void creatures cannot see the actual truth, and Il'gynoth was just a fragment of N'Zoth. You choosing to believe his whisper was 100% true doesnt mean that that was Blizzard intention. And now it is clear the whisper referred to Azshara, who ushered in N'Zoth return.

[Aucald]

Those are just threats. When they predict the future, I'm talking about how they are making specific predictions with details that come true.

While this is true, that's mostly the "madness" flavor talk.

Whenever they actually reference in-game characters or events they are 100% correct. They don't lie if you ignore the generic doomsaying evil talk.

I don't know about 100% correct - a lot of the things they've proclaimed are very open to interpretation, and while some have been slotted in after the fact we have no real idea if that's what they meant when they said it, or if they're just playing Nostradamus and we're reinterpreting and doing the job of contextualizing for them. Vague prophecies and the like can often seem to fit certain patterns well, but the truth can often be that the prophecy is nonsense and we're just making a confabulation to try to make them fit.

And even then, how exactly does one sort out the truth from the madness flavor talk and doomsaying? They specialize in self-sealing "conspiracy" type logic with a built-in method to try to seal away their failed predictions and so forth.

[Garymorilix]

I don't know about 100% correct - a lot of the things they've proclaimed are very open to interpretation, and while some have been slotted in after the fact we have no real idea if that's what they meant when they said it, or if they're just playing Nostradamus and we're reinterpreting and doing the job of contextualizing for them. Vague prophecies and the like can often seem to fit certain patterns well, but the truth can often be that the prophecy is nonsense and we're just making a confabulation to try to make them fit.

And even then, how exactly does one sort out the truth from the madness flavor talk and doomsaying? They specialize in self-sealing "conspiracy" type logic with a built-in method to try to seal away their failed predictions and so forth.

It's very easy actually.

You're talking like your "in-character".

In reality, Blizzard cannot afford to develop major red herrings, so they simply don't.
The Old Gods do 2 things:
"Your heart will explode" "Your friends will turn on you"... yada yada evil creepy nonsense.
"The golden one takes a vacant throne..." - very clearly foreshadowing, not a lie.

It is actually very easy to distinguish between these 2 times of whispers. Saying it isn't is just wrong.
When you actually sit down and read all the old god lines it becomes clear that whenever they reference something that relates to actual lore they are 100% correct.

And most of the time it is not even vague. The "circle of stars" was literally called the circle of stars.

[Sagenod]

They definitely do not see all futures as true. If they did, their predictions of the future would be almost always wrong. Their predictions of the future are almost always right. They have been accurately making calls on our future for this entire time.

The Void only sees one half of the truth. The Light the other

[Houle]

It is not a reach.



Il'gynoth seems more aware than the others, but in the end he is just another Void creature. He is not omniscient.

I never said it is a lie. I said it is a false prediction. It is an established fact that Void creatures cannot see the actual truth, and Il'gynoth was just a fragment of N'Zoth. You choosing to believe his whisper was 100% true doesnt mean that that was Blizzard intention. And now it is clear the whisper referred to Azshara, who ushered in N'Zoth return.

this here describes it perfectly:

It's very easy actually.

You're talking like your "in-character".

In reality, Blizzard cannot afford to develop major red herrings, so they simply don't.
The Old Gods do 2 things:
"Your heart will explode" "Your friends will turn on you"... yada yada evil creepy nonsense.
"The golden one takes a vacant throne..." - very clearly foreshadowing, not a lie.

It is actually very easy to distinguish between these 2 times of whispers. Saying it isn't is just wrong.
When you actually sit down and read all the old god lines it becomes clear that whenever they reference something that relates to actual lore they are 100% correct.

And most of the time it is not even vague. The "circle of stars" was literally called the circle of stars.

[Aucald]

It's very easy actually.

You're talking like your "in-character".

In reality, Blizzard cannot afford to develop major red herrings, so they simply don't.
The Old Gods do 2 things:
"Your heart will explode" "Your friends will turn on you"... yada yada evil creepy nonsense.
"The golden one takes a vacant throne..." - very clearly foreshadowing, not a lie.

It is actually very easy to distinguish between these 2 times of whispers. Saying it isn't is just wrong.
When you actually sit down and read all the old god lines it becomes clear that whenever they reference something that relates to actual lore they are 100% correct.

And most of the time it is not even vague. The "circle of stars" was literally called the circle of stars.

"The golden takes a vacant throne" is foreshadowing what, exactly? Turalyon's stewardship, or Anduin stepping into the shoes of his deceased father? One is possible foreshadowing, the other is just a poetic recounting. We also never "drown ourselves" at the Circle of Stars, unless "drown yourself" just means "be underwater" in a completely habitable sphere. But aside from semantic inconsistencies, let's take a look at some of Il'gynoth's various prophetic utterances:

"Flesh is his gift. He is your true creator." - Flesh was not exclusive to the Curse of Flesh, and the Old Gods didn't create any of the playable races.
"The king of diamonds has been made a pawn." - More an insult than a prophecy.
"The lord of ravens will turn the key." - When did this happen? Who is the "Lord of Ravens?" Still open to speculation, still thus far unexplained.
"The boy-king serves at the master's table. Three lies will he offer you." - It would be difficult for Anduin to serve at the table of a now-dead Old God.
"At the hour of her third death, she will usher in our coming." - Whose death? Speculation abounds, more Nostradamus-like confabulation.
"From the earth, he draws strength. Our earth. Our strength." - Neltharion? Not really a prediction, more a retelling. Thrall? Seems less than probable.
"Its surface blazes bright, masking shadows below." - Suitably vague, another poetic utterance that could be applied to anything.

And now some random Old God-related "prophecies" from other entities:
"They do not die; they do not live. They are outside the cycle." - Pretty strongly averted by the developer's own words.
"There is no light after death. Only a place where even shadows fear to go." - Averted, the Void has attacked the Shadowlands themselves, after all.
"The key... turns once more." - Where's the aforementioned "Lord of Ravens?"
"The shadow of my corpse will choke this land for all eternity." - Doesn't seem to be working, Yogg.

It's not difficult to make poetic-sounding "prophecies" whose form is adaptable to many probable outcomes, all you need is some overly florid prose and descriptive language that can match multiple people, events, or places equally. Prophecies have long been twisted and confabulated to map onto all kinds of predictions, and often use post-hoc rationalization to make them seem as if they were fully valid all along. The stated nature of the Void, however, belies the certainty of its minions many declarations - it sees all possibilities as equally true, even if from a rational standpoint they cannot be. This means the "a broken clock is right twice a day" effect is fully in play. The Old Gods' and the servants of the Void will occasionally say true things, because a handful of the truths they see are objectively true. The rest, well, not so much.

[Nero Duskwind]

At the hour of her third death, she ushers in our coming.
Shadowlands will end with the coming of the voidlords, or their high ranking officers.

Sylvanas has already died three times as previously pointed out. She was a red herring. The "her" is Azeroth. Her first "death" was the Sundering, her second was the Cataclysm, and her third was the Wound of the World that set everything in BFA in motion for N'zoth's liberation and return. It fits with the other riddles from Emerald Nightmare. "Her heart is a crater and we have filled it" refers to our Heart of Azeroth pendant and how we ultimately were manipulated by N'Zoth into charging it to unlock his prison.