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  1. #41
    The whole spirit of Warcraft stems from a divergence from the Tolkien paradigm of Humans good Orcs bad. In Warcraft there are good and bad of both. If the loremasters of the game stay true to that original purpose, I see no reason why that wouldn't carry through to the cosmic forces. "The Void" isn't good or bad because it's just a power source that is wielded by many users. And each user has a different shade of morality.

    Even if entire organizational structure that represent that force, like Fel, are corrupted (The Burning Legion), we still see Fel users (player Warlocks, Illidan) who use that magic with arguably good and bad intentions.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Villager720 View Post
    I think it's safe to assume none of the cosmic orders are on our side (except maaaaaaybe life).

    The Light makes beings feel good so they follow/worship - to what end though, we know not. Also Naaru eat souls - so that's a thing.
    On the flipside, the Void drives mortals "insane" and corrupts/warps their physical form - to what end, we know not. But it certainly hasn't done anything benevolent in the pursuit of it's goals.
    Death seemingly wants to control (re:kill) everything. That was certainly Arthas' thought process, and might mirror Sylvie's and the Jailer's aims as well.
    The Titans (re:Order) used to glass planets (re:Algalon) if they found them too disorderly or "corrupted" (by their subjective perspective). Not exactly wholesome.
    And the Burning Legion (re:Disorder) is bent on ending existence.

    And then there is life... which I think is ...us? Maybe? Life, its "pantheon" and its motivations, are definitely the least defined and thus it is difficult to speculate on.
    Where is it stated the Naaru eat souls? Not doubting you, I just wanne know more about this.

  3. #43
    In the audio book A Thousand Years of War it is pretty clear that all cosmic forces believe that they are all doing the "right" thing.

    -The Void's view of the Light is that it tries to control and subjugate people, while the Void sees itself as freeing the spirits and minds of those it gives its gifts to. One image that the Void has is a mountain of crystal made by the Light, with countless mortals trapped inside.

    -The Light feels that the Void corrupts and scars all that it touches, and views itself as a barrier of evil. The Light sees itself keeping mortals safe in the only way possible, seeing itself as a gift.

    However, we also see some hypocrisy.

    -Xe'ra tried to forcibly convert Illidan, and kept it secret that Naaru can fall to Void. Alleria was imprisoned for researching the Void. The Light does not truly allow free thinking.

    -The Void has destroyed entire worlds, and many of those corrupted by it cannot actually think for themselves anymore, being driven insane.

    - While we don't know Elune's true origin yet, she does use powers that resemble Light and Void. All of Elune's followers feel that they are doing the right thing when using her powers, but many have done bad things in the end. Some examples are Maiev, the prieatesses/Dejahna in Tomb of Sargeras, and many elven ghosts. Tyrande certainly thinks she can do no wrong under the goddess' guidance. We also learn that the ritual of the Night Warrior is powerful and extremely dangerous.

    And while many of the Void's predictions have become mostly true, so have visions from the Light to Velen and other Light-wielding mortals. That's also explained in the audio book - Light and Void see glimpses of the future, but the only way to see the truth is when they are combined. So, the Light and Void will never truly be able to see the real future on their own, but some of their predictions will become true.

    It's also not quite accurate to say that Death is "evil" as well. We see beings in Shadowlands that have good intentions, and do good things, like the Winter Queen in Ardenweald. The fact that there are several different factions with different views and intentions proves that the realm of Death (as well as the concept in WoW) is not one-sided.

    Likewise, we see many other beings from.different forces that have different viewpoints, intentions, and moralities.

    -We see demons that oppose the Burning Legion in BC and Legion, meaning that Fel is not unified in purpose. Like Light and Void, we've also seen many mortals using Fel for good and evil purposes alike.

    -We have seen beings of Life that don't have good intentions. The Sporemounds/Primals of Draenor wanted to choke out all other life. Had Aggramar and the Arakkoa not intervened, Draenor would be a giant ball of weeds and spores. Hakkar is also a Wild God that has no good intentions.

    -We know the Titans have the idea that they "order" worlds, opposing things like Death, Fel, and Void. But we've also seen them using powers like this in the Halls of Origination to their advantage. We've also seen creations of the Titans (and creations of the creations of the Titans) that have done horrible, questionable, or selfish things, like Odyn. Lei Shen, Helya, and many others.

    -While the elements are not as powerful or grand as the other forces, we've likewise seen many elemental that are good, bad, or a mix of both. Beings like Murmur, Ragnaros, Al'Akir, and others are destructive, but we've worked with Therazane and Neptulon.

    In the end, I think that Blizzard is trying to make the statement that good and evil are points of view. This is as true for gods as it is for mortals in the WoW universe. I think it will eventually get to a point where mortals have to fight and corral all the cosmic forces one way or another.
    Last edited by Destinas; 2020-09-16 at 08:51 PM.
    3 hints to surviving MMO-C forums:
    1.) If you have an opinion, someone will say that it is wrong
    2.) If you have a source, there will be people who refuse to believe it
    3.) If you use logic, it will be largely ignored
    btw: Spires of Arak = Arakkoa.

  4. #44
    Herald of the Titans Jazzhands's Avatar
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    I don't think the Light or the Void are good. They're basically cosmic forces with god complexes, never a good combination.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    lol ok buddy

    See ya in 10.3, when I beat tf outta the Void Lords.
    You're forgetting the faction war expansion. See you in 11.3
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrage View Post
    Where is it stated the Naaru eat souls? Not doubting you, I just wanne know more about this.
    When a Naaru is darkened by nearly dying, souls are consumed by them. This happened with K'ure in both timelines, L'ura on Argus, K'ara in Shadowmoon, etc.
    3 hints to surviving MMO-C forums:
    1.) If you have an opinion, someone will say that it is wrong
    2.) If you have a source, there will be people who refuse to believe it
    3.) If you use logic, it will be largely ignored
    btw: Spires of Arak = Arakkoa.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    You're forgetting the faction war expansion. See you in 11.3
    Battle For Shadowlands is gonna be great

  8. #48
    Pandaren Monk Villager720's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrage View Post
    Where is it stated the Naaru eat souls? Not doubting you, I just wanne know more about this.
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/A_Secret_Revealed

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Villager720 View Post
    k'ure literally said a sentenc before that a "void grew in her place"
    it was void that devoured the orc souls, not light
    The crooked shitposter with no eyes is watching from the endless thread.

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  10. #50
    Pandaren Monk Villager720's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    k'ure literally said a sentenc before that a "void grew in her place"
    it was void that devoured the orc souls, not light
    It’s still a naaru feeding on souls until it’s healed.
    Void naaru, light naaru - still a naaru.
    Eating our ancestors.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Villager720 View Post
    It’s still a naaru feeding on souls until it’s healed.
    Void naaru, light naaru - still a naaru.
    Eating our ancestors.
    yeah, we've known that naaru can get turned into void creatures since BC.
    still tho, as the name says, they are creatures of the VOID then. which makes it logical for them to consume souls.
    a light naaru does no such thing, same as every other light creature we've seen so far.
    im not saying the light is 100% good or anything (it isn't, blizz is obviously going for the "balance is the key" thing, like in diablo), but it does not consume souls as far as we know
    The crooked shitposter with no eyes is watching from the endless thread.

    From the space that is everywhere and nowhere, the crooked shitposter feasts on memes.

    He has no eyes to see, but he dreams of infinite memeing and trolling.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Destinas View Post
    In the end, I think that Blizzard is trying to make the statement that good and evil are points of view.
    how is there a point of view for actions of void lords? or demons? corruption/mass destruction/genocide/murder/consuming/so on.... there is no "pov" on things like that, they are evil

    meanwhile, light/life/order have not done anything like that... so like, how can you make a statement when some forces are literally destroying everything while others are saving/protecting/helping/so on

    We know the Titans have the idea that they "order" worlds, opposing things like Death, Fel, and Void. But we've also seen them using powers like this in the Halls of Origination to their advantage. We've also seen creations of the Titans (and creations of the creations of the Titans) that have done horrible, questionable, or selfish things, like Odyn. Lei Shen, Helya, and many others.
    this... makes no sense. And Titans do not just have an "idea" of order, they literally have brought order to countless planets in the cosmos. They have created devices, machinery, structures, creatures and so on to help and protect worlds.

    fel, death, void, arcane, light, life... these are all cosmic forces that can be used by anyone for anything (good or evil as we've seen before for each power), who cares if the titans used another force.

    creations of titans have free will, i.e. what they do is not a reflection of the titans

    Xe'ra tried to forcibly convert Illidan, and kept it secret that Naaru can fall to Void. Alleria was imprisoned for researching the Void. The Light does not truly allow free thinking.
    actions of ONE naaru =/= all naaru

    naaru =/= light, naaru are just beings made of light, not the light itself

    light is just another cosmic force like fel, void, death, arcane and so on... all can and have been used for good/evil, though each force does have a particular nature and characteristic to it

    in case of light: the Light is often said to bring about feelings of positive emotion—hope, courage, comfort—and the like, Shadow abilities are the opposite, able to impart feelings like despair, doubt, and panic

    e.g. using light = no real issue but you need faith, while using void = constant fight against voices/losing ur mind

    Quote Originally Posted by Villager720 View Post
    It’s still a naaru feeding on souls until it’s healed.
    Void naaru, light naaru - still a naaru.
    Eating our ancestors.
    so.... ur trying to say that something the dark naaru did, and it's arguable if dark naaru are even still naaru as they are void creatures, means that all naaru "consume souls" or that entire naaru race should be blamed for that? wat?

    and no naaru has ever shown to "consume souls"
    Last edited by voidox; 2020-09-17 at 12:55 PM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Angrie View Post
    What if that's a lie? What if the void does not want to do any of that? Perhaps just the key-hole perception we're told.
    Oh my god, this is the stupidest thing I ever heard. Do you argue that Fire perhaps isn't trying to burn down someone's house, it just wants to remodel it, and the fire fighters are evil for trying to flood it with water?

    The Void has outright said what it's goals are. There is no question about their preferred end-game: Them infesting everything, having consumed and turned everything to the Void.

  14. #54
    Squall from FF8 said it best

    "Right and wrong are not what separate us and our enemies. It's our different standpoints, our perspectives that separate us. Both sides blame one another. There's no good or bad side. Just two sides holding different views"

    I mean, Sargeras was creating the legion and taking over planets and we all saw him as a bad guy, but his goal was to stop the void who actually wanted to destroy the universe. So is he a good guy? does good intent over rule evil actions. Maybe the heroes of Azeroth are the bad guys, we keep killing people

  15. #55
    We've faught everything seeking to control the world either by domination, destruction, or enslavement, the void is just another name on our list of baddies we need to flex on in our western interactive shounen universe.

  16. #56
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Every Cosmic force thinks they're the "good guys" who should rule everyone else. Being the "lesser evil", even by a small amount, doesn't make you right.
    Guess you could even remove the "cosmic". Other than in books or comics, I doubt anyone ever goes "Har Har, I am evul" - even the worst assholes that ever existed in RL probably thought they do what they do for some greater good.

  17. #57
    Funny thing is the void has been warning us about the light and death for a long time and mostly all of their riddles and predictions have come to pass.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Funny thing is the void has been warning us about the light and death for a long time and mostly all of their riddles and predictions have come to pass.
    Thats part of my point. The light is blinding. Maybe, just maybe, the horrific visions were the lights vision; the lights version of their rivals take over. Perhaps, not the truth. If the void is capable of seeing all things, all outcomes, then it sees its own defeat. Why not strategize to the outcome of your victory?

    Then there's N'zoths gift he gives us in Crucible of Storms, why not kill us then? If he was so evil why does he apparently need us?
    I think there's more to the void story that's coming in the future.

    From across the table, the light looks like bad guys too. It recruits these super-beings to go around killing in the name of the light, how is that any different from any of the cosmic forces?


    The Walking Dead show comes to mind. The light playing as Rick's Party. The Void is Negan's party. From Negan's point of view, he's just trying to save his people, and from Rick's pov he's trying to save his own. Rick uses a gun, Negan uses a bat, we're to believe the bat is worse, but is it? Aren't they the both bad? Rick's party kills tons of Negan's men before even meeting Negan, yet we're to believe Rick (the light) is the good guys -- all about the party you're vested in. Point here is that we have the smallest of glimpses at the void, i think Xala'taths return will be of an ally.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    The whole spirit of Warcraft stems from a divergence from the Tolkien paradigm of Humans good Orcs bad. In Warcraft there are good and bad of both. If the loremasters of the game stay true to that original purpose, I see no reason why that wouldn't carry through to the cosmic forces. "The Void" isn't good or bad because it's just a power source that is wielded by many users. And each user has a different shade of morality.

    Even if entire organizational structure that represent that force, like Fel, are corrupted (The Burning Legion), we still see Fel users (player Warlocks, Illidan) who use that magic with arguably good and bad intentions.
    I really doubt you can cast fel users in any good light

    Like their power literally requires them to consume souls of others and with the knowledge that even the more evil people can be redeemed or be given a purpose in the afterlife it seems like its uniquely evil

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Angrie View Post
    The Walking Dead show comes to mind. The light playing as Rick's Party. The Void is Negan's party. From Negan's point of view, he's just trying to save his people, and from Rick's pov he's trying to save his own. Rick uses a gun, Negan uses a bat, we're to believe the bat is worse, but is it? Aren't they the both bad? Rick's party kills tons of Negan's men before even meeting Negan, yet we're to believe Rick (the light) is the good guys -- all about the party you're vested in. Point here is that we have the smallest of glimpses at the void, i think Xala'taths return will be of an ally.
    Doesnt the void want to corrupt world souls in order to create dark titans??

    Dunno about you but that seems to throw the comparison off

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by NED funded View Post
    I really doubt you can cast fel users in any good light

    Like their power literally requires them to consume souls of others and with the knowledge that even the more evil people can be redeemed or be given a purpose in the afterlife it seems like its uniquely evil
    Did you play Legion?

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