Page 23 of 25 FirstFirst ...
13
21
22
23
24
25
LastLast
  1. #441
    All they have to do is put m+ to almost mythic raid level, remove the weekly chest altogether, and cap people to looting once per M+ dungeon per week. So you can loot one of each dungeon every week, giving you similar odds to mythic raiding.

    The only issue is if you do a better run later you wouldn't get loot. Small issue that has a few solutions.

  2. #442
    I always find it bizarre how not having the most powerful reward means your content is irrelevant in wow...

    Perhaps blizzard should try breaking players out of the loot piñata mindset and tighten the correlation between power and difficulty better. That said I find it odd that plus 20 doesn't reward mythic gear beyond the cache.

  3. #443
    Quote Originally Posted by burek View Post
    No. Heroic raid gear is, and has always been, irrelevant. And gear that is even lower lvl than that is ... It's as meaningful as dungeon blues or leveling gear.
    Irrelevant to your elitist ass, yet entirely relevant to the 98% of players do not engage in Mythic raiding content.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  4. #444
    Scarab Lord crakerjack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Ptwn, Oregon
    Posts
    4,767
    I want to get back into mythic raiding. I dabbled a bit with the first couple bosses in each tier, but I really want to push deep into mythic raiding. After a season or two, M+ become incredibly boring because it's the same dungeons and the same affixes that have been carried from from the last 2 expansions. I'll still do m+ to maximize my vault awards, but I don't enjoy it as much as I do mythic raiding. The only time I hate mythic raiding is when there's people in the raid who have no business being there. Doing challenging content with people who suckass and can't parse higher than 60%, kills raiding for me.
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by LostLocket View Post
    I always find it bizarre how not having the most powerful reward means your content is irrelevant in wow...

    Perhaps blizzard should try breaking players out of the loot piñata mindset and tighten the correlation between power and difficulty better. That said I find it odd that plus 20 doesn't reward mythic gear beyond the cache.
    You find it bizarre because you dont understand that players want to be rewarded by doing something in game, not waiting until reset cache will give em some scraps.
    You can realistically farm all M+ end-of-dungeon gear in like one week. And then what? Then you do your serfdom for each weeks hoping this time vault will give you something useful.

    There should have never been a correlation between power and difficulty but effort and power, like vanilla up to wotlk (when shit wasn't difficult at all).

  6. #446

  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    You find it bizarre because you dont understand that players want to be rewarded by doing something in game, not waiting until reset cache will give em some scraps.
    You can realistically farm all M+ end-of-dungeon gear in like one week. And then what? Then you do your serfdom for each weeks hoping this time vault will give you something useful.

    There should have never been a correlation between power and difficulty but effort and power, like vanilla up to wotlk (when shit wasn't difficult at all).
    I would of been happy with a tbc style progression system myself though I strongly disagree on the idea of effort mattering at all compared to difficulty. In my mind if a rabbit drops 1 leather for killing it killing a million rabbits should net you one million leather not ashbringer.

    I would welcome a return to tiers but I have no real interest in going back to such a simple game like classic. Tbc and wrath after the first tier? To be honest my recollection from that far back isnt clear enough to recall if the difficulty would be enough to interest me or not.

  8. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystikal View Post
    Right, but that in itself is actually a problem - no-one is going to take the lower ilvl option, because that's just dumb. So, unless you're running at least 15 or so M+ each reset, then there's no added value to running more than 1 per week, given the vastly reduced drop rates.
    I lower item lvl with optimum stats is frequently better than a higher ilvl item with with wrong stats... clas/spec dependant of course.

    The point of my post you quoted (where I was responding to a previous message) is that in the first week of a season, almost evening is an upgrade.

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by MatPandaZ View Post
    All they have to do is put m+ to almost mythic raid level, remove the weekly chest altogether, and cap people to looting once per M+ dungeon per week. So you can loot one of each dungeon every week, giving you similar odds to mythic raiding.

    The only issue is if you do a better run later you wouldn't get loot. Small issue that has a few solutions.
    Why would they put M+ rewards to almost mythic raid level? Consider the time, effort, planning, people and difficulty of mythic raiding, now compare it to M+. You think it should be anywhere near raid tier gear of the hardest difficulty? I don't think so. If you can have almost the best gear from doing something far easier and unlimited, why bother doing the harder thing for barely a higher reward? I guess you might say M+ scales forever so is infinitely more difficult, but that's not really how gearing in it has ever worked

    What your saying would make sense if M+ gear was quite a bit weaker, however you could get those close to raid tier strength items once or twice in a week, while removing the cache altogether, or something more sensible along those lines, sure.
    *Insert every single ridiculous PC parts detail here that no one cares about*

  10. #450
    The Patient LuckyOne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    North-rhine-westphalia
    Posts
    345
    I heavily doubt that the dev. team did this change willy nilly to cripple one of WoW's most popular addition in the last few years.

    They probably saw the declining interest in normal and heroic raiding because Legions/Bfa iteration of M+ simply made it obsolete for gearing.
    And when we talk about normal-heroic level playerbase combined that's quite a few subs.

  11. #451
    Quote Originally Posted by La View Post
    Why would they put M+ rewards to almost mythic raid level? Consider the time, effort, planning, people and difficulty of mythic raiding, now compare it to M+. You think it should be anywhere near raid tier gear of the hardest difficulty? I don't think so. If you can have almost the best gear from doing something far easier and unlimited, why bother doing the harder thing for barely a higher reward? I guess you might say M+ scales forever so is infinitely more difficult, but that's not really how gearing in it has ever worked

    What your saying would make sense if M+ gear was quite a bit weaker, however you could get those close to raid tier strength items once or twice in a week, while removing the cache altogether, or something more sensible along those lines, sure.

    First off, you make the key cap at mythic difficulty level. If the dungeons are anything like BFA then it takes MORE planning not less to do high keys.

    Unlimited? you clearly didn't read where i said limit of 1 chance of loot per dungeon per week.

    How about we flip the argument. Do you think HC takes more planning than high keys? You think that it should reward less than HC level gear while potentially being harder than mythic raid?

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by Nite92 View Post
    You do understand that m+ gearing is better in SL than it was in BFA? Having higher ilvl from a spamable source than hc raid loot is stupid, because it invalidates the hc ra id. And afaik the vault still offers mythic ivl quality loot only that you get 3 options now instead of 1. The only issue here is, that you cannot any longer farm hc equivalent ilvl for each slot so that you can trade all hc loot that drops.
    To me it's not stupid. I raid for the challenge and like goof around with different gear sets and would like to be able to farm those pieces without having to wait a week for a reset. If I so choose. High level PvP, M+ and mythic raid should all reward max ilvl gear, in my book.

    Now I would like to have titanforge back in the game just to maybe get an upgrade from m+. I mean, I do enjoy m+ but it would also be cool to not just, you know, disenchant/sell all the loot throughout a whole expansion.

    I'm probably a minority here though so I'll just have to get used to it
    Well met!
    Quote Originally Posted by Iem View Post
    Man even if Blizzard gave players bars of gold, they would complain that they were too heavy.

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by LostLocket View Post
    I would of been happy with a tbc style progression system myself though I strongly disagree on the idea of effort mattering at all compared to difficulty. In my mind if a rabbit drops 1 leather for killing it killing a million rabbits should net you one million leather not ashbringer.

    I would welcome a return to tiers but I have no real interest in going back to such a simple game like classic. Tbc and wrath after the first tier? To be honest my recollection from that far back isnt clear enough to recall if the difficulty would be enough to interest me or not.
    For current standards I would say wotlk difficulty should be best. But not current retarded high tier use 10 auras and addons to aid in killing bosses.

    And you are wrong about the part of killing million rabbits because that is exactly how it works.
    If killing a rabbit gives you 3g, then killing million of them is enough to buy yourself a mythic raid boost.

  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    For current standards I would say wotlk difficulty should be best. But not current retarded high tier use 10 auras and addons to aid in killing bosses.

    And you are wrong about the part of killing million rabbits because that is exactly how it works.
    If killing a rabbit gives you 3g, then killing million of them is enough to buy yourself a mythic raid boost.
    I would speak out against boosting... but ive made 15 million gold this patch from it so it would be a little hypocritica.

    Wrath is a strange choice though... the first tier was too easy. The second was over tuned to the point it was cleared during its tier. Trial was sense as meh and ICC was tuned so it couldn't be cleared without the buff or the heroic weapons the lk dropped.

  15. #455
    Immortal
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    7,957
    Quote Originally Posted by MatPandaZ View Post
    All they have to do is put m+ to almost mythic raid level, remove the weekly chest altogether, and cap people to looting once per M+ dungeon per week. So you can loot one of each dungeon every week, giving you similar odds to mythic raiding.

    The only issue is if you do a better run later you wouldn't get loot. Small issue that has a few solutions.
    While I see what you're trying to achieve and agree with your general view, I don't think this would be a great solution. Just for a start, the way M+ works with random keys would make this a real pain in the proverbial posterior because you'd have a bunch of people fighting against RNG in order to try and get every dungeon every week.

    I really liked the loot system they came up with for Horrific Visions and I think that it could work very well for M+. The real problem with M+ was always the infinitely repeatable chest from each dungeon, especially when combined with WF/TF. If those chests simply started giving diminishing returns for repeating them, then the problem would be self limiting even when combined with a system like WF/TF.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LostLocket View Post
    I would speak out against boosting... but ive made 15 million gold this patch from it so it would be a little hypocritica.
    My only real issue with boosting is the large amount of spam in trade, or when it happens via real money transactions.

    Honestly, I don't see why anyone should have an issue with it though when all is above board. If you have a willing buyer and a willing seller, then it is, as far as I am concerned, a healthy element of an MMO game.

    People really need to stop concerning themselves with what other players are doing, and focus on their own needs and desires.

  16. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by LostLocket View Post
    I always find it bizarre how not having the most powerful reward means your content is irrelevant in wow...

    Perhaps blizzard should try breaking players out of the loot piñata mindset and tighten the correlation between power and difficulty better. That said I find it odd that plus 20 doesn't reward mythic gear beyond the cache.
    Yeah the far bigger issue is that heroic is too easy given the gear heroic raiders can get.

  17. #457
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Irrelevant to your elitist ass, yet entirely relevant to the 98% of players do not engage in Mythic raiding content.
    I don't agree with the way that other guy is putting it but I do think it *becomes* irrelevant because of the weekly chest.

    When I do mythic raids even if I'm in a full set of mythic gear the raid loot is still relevant until I get perfect stats / BiS gear etc etc. M+ gear is irrelevant immediately upon having a full set of mythic gear outside of outliers.

    When I do heroic raids or M+ I cap out at heroic ilvl and then my next progression path if I'm not doing mythic raids is to max out my weekly chest chances and fill out my slots there. Eventually I'm full mythic ilvl via weekly chest and now M+ gear is equally irrelevant to me as if I were a mythic raider, it just took a bit longer.

    I made a long ass post I think in this thread earlier about it, but imo they should reward M+ up through mythic ilvl for doing commensurate content (which is absolutely not a +15 most of the time) but it also needs to have loot lockouts like the rest of the game does for high end gear. If its meant to compete with raids / pvp as a form of end game group content then it needs to be treated like it in every way.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  18. #458
    Immortal
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    7,957
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Yeah the far bigger issue is that heroic is too easy given the gear heroic raiders can get.
    In theory maybe, but in practice not really.

    I would argue that for most heroic raiders, being able to get the best gear possible from M+ isn't necessarily that simple. Heroic raiders are neither as skilled as Mythic raiders, nor do they have the kind of gear necessary for being able to walk over high M+ keys.

  19. #459
    Heroic raiding, in my experience, really fell apart during BFA almost primarily due to mythic+. I didn't do mythic raiding in BFA but I suspect it was impacted as well. Mythic+ was too rewarding in BFA, relatively, and toning those rewards down has been one of my biggest requests(along with re implementing set bonuses) for nearly the entire xpak. I'm very happy with the change.

  20. #460
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    I don't agree with the way that other guy is putting it but I do think it *becomes* irrelevant because of the weekly chest.

    When I do mythic raids even if I'm in a full set of mythic gear the raid loot is still relevant until I get perfect stats / BiS gear etc etc. M+ gear is irrelevant immediately upon having a full set of mythic gear outside of outliers.

    When I do heroic raids or M+ I cap out at heroic ilvl and then my next progression path if I'm not doing mythic raids is to max out my weekly chest chances and fill out my slots there. Eventually I'm full mythic ilvl via weekly chest and now M+ gear is equally irrelevant to me as if I were a mythic raider, it just took a bit longer.

    I made a long ass post I think in this thread earlier about it, but imo they should reward M+ up through mythic ilvl for doing commensurate content (which is absolutely not a +15 most of the time) but it also needs to have loot lockouts like the rest of the game does for high end gear. If its meant to compete with raids / pvp as a form of end game group content then it needs to be treated like it in every way.
    As others have said, gearing up fully through the weekly chest is going to take a long time, potentially longer then a raid tier lasts.
    But I could see higher ilvl loot from M+ working under some caveats. The obvious lockout (1 item per week probably) and having to complete it within silver timer for example and +20, if not more.

    The big issue in BfA was grindable Heroic+ quality loot.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •