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  1. #461
    reading tue this makes me wonder how delusional those casuals are about the "1" Item, im doing keys on the beta right now and its 1 BASELINE meaning: a depleto +15 gives 1 item, a timed +15 gives 2 and a timed 17 gives 3 and so on, dont be bad and you get more items time your 15s and you get almost the same loot as we have now on live (3)
    I.O BFA Season 3


  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    As others have said, gearing up fully through the weekly chest is going to take a long time, potentially longer then a raid tier lasts.
    But I could see higher ilvl loot from M+ working under some caveats. The obvious lockout (1 item per week probably) and having to complete it within silver timer for example and +20, if not more.

    The big issue in BfA was grindable Heroic+ quality loot.
    I'm very skeptical that its going to take that long when you can pick from multiple options instead of just getting the 1 per week. Raid tiers are usually around 6 months apart yeah? I don't expect it to take even 6 months to get fully geared via the box yet alone longer. And remember that every usable piece of gear you get from it kills that slot for any content you'd be doing since in this scenario the heroic player is not doing mythic level content. Its not like you literally need to have every single piece locked in from the box before its tremendously undermined gearing for you from other sources.

    Of course you're going to need to get to that heroic point beforehand, but that is very doable without even stepping foot in a heroic raid with M+ not having loot lockouts.

    My quick brainstorm was making it look something like horrific visions reward structure. Every so many levels bumps the ilvl, and you can keep getting rewards as you push the challenge up but you'd only get the worse rewards for continuing at the same level until you've hit all the lockouts. IMO you should keep getting chances at loot if you manage to keep pushing higher in the 20's.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    While I see what you're trying to achieve and agree with your general view, I don't think this would be a great solution. Just for a start, the way M+ works with random keys would make this a real pain in the proverbial posterior because you'd have a bunch of people fighting against RNG in order to try and get every dungeon every week.
    I went in a little too confident with 'all they need to do' while my idea was more of a jumping off point. I think they could have done a little bit to change the way keys work also. There would be more to look into. I just think it's odd that 10 players can do easier content and get better gear from HC raid than people pushing keys. Maybe with all the changes to bonus rolls and loot it might work out about the same getting your weekly chest vs mythic, but the problem is mythic *also* get the weekly chest, so with that they end up gearing faster.

    Just seems odd that they specifically pushed the point that it shouldn't matter if your avenue is Raid, M+ or PvP and then gimp M+ gearing more than any other avenue.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    My quick brainstorm was making it look something like horrific visions reward structure. Every so many levels bumps the ilvl, and you can keep getting rewards as you push the challenge up but you'd only get the worse rewards for continuing at the same level until you've hit all the lockouts. IMO you should keep getting chances at loot if you manage to keep pushing higher in the 20's.
    I kinda like this idea in essence.

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Druid ist Op View Post
    reading tue this makes me wonder how delusional those casuals are about the "1" Item, im doing keys on the beta right now and its 1 BASELINE meaning: a depleto +15 gives 1 item, a timed +15 gives 2 and a timed 17 gives 3 and so on, dont be bad and you get more items time your 15s and you get almost the same loot as we have now on live (3)
    What ilvl does mythic+ completion chests give compared to heroic raids if you know? I personally have just run mythic+ and havent really raided since legion and I don't really want to have to do heroic raids weekly.

  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    What ilvl does mythic+ completion chests give compared to heroic raids if you know? I personally have just run mythic+ and havent really raided since legion and I don't really want to have to do heroic raids weekly.
    literally NOTHING changes you will gear true weekly chest like you do on live, dont matter if you replace 210 or 213 gear for the 226 one. Now you have 3 choices instead of 1 to pick from, less usesless gear. This is a buff for you M+ casuals not a nerf and good M+ players will clear mythic in 2-5 weeks anyways and have even more to pick from in the weekly chest.
    Last edited by Feral Druid ist Op; 2020-09-28 at 04:54 PM.
    I.O BFA Season 3


  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuciek View Post
    Since I'm mostly PvP player, I'd love it if it was just this to do every week.

    What I would like to do when I log in to WoW? Play arena with my teammates, go do some battlegrounds, duel with friends, do some occasional world PvP. M+ and raids when I'm in the mood. In BFA I had to do A LOT of things, a lot of things that I didn't want to do. There were so many things to do to stay competitive that I didn't had time to do the things that I would like to do. There are actually so many things I'd like to do in this game that I don't have time to do, because I have to do my WoW chores.

    I'd like to have more time for transmog runs, for playing my alts, I'd like to try pet battles more than once a year. Hell, maybe I'd even have time to actually raid again because I would do arenas instead of all those dailies and than I would have time to join my guild in raids more often.

    Looking forward to less chores and more fun in a video game.
    I was about to respond, but then you captured my thoughts quite well.
    Considering nobody was excited for end-dungeon loot in BFA either after the first month, and waited for the weekly dissapointment (which now is actual choosable gear), I'd say it's a positive change for most involved, that doesn't devalue HC raids, if I desire to pug them.

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Druid ist Op View Post
    literally NOTHING changes you will gear true weekly chest like you do on live, dont matter if you replace 210 or 213 gear for the 226 one. Now you have 3 choices instead of 1 to pick from, less usesless gear. This is a buff for you M+ casuals not a nerf and good M+ players will clear mythic in 2-5 weeks anyways and have even more to pick from in the weekly chest.
    So heroic raids are 213 and max mythic+ end of dungeon loot is 210 i guess?

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    What ilvl does mythic+ completion chests give compared to heroic raids if you know? I personally have just run mythic+ and havent really raided since legion and I don't really want to have to do heroic raids weekly.
    in shadowlands M+15 will give 3 ilvl lower then Heroic raids,
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by MatPandaZ View Post
    I went in a little too confident with 'all they need to do' while my idea was more of a jumping off point. I think they could have done a little bit to change the way keys work also. There would be more to look into. I just think it's odd that 10 players can do easier content and get better gear from HC raid than people pushing keys. Maybe with all the changes to bonus rolls and loot it might work out about the same getting your weekly chest vs mythic, but the problem is mythic *also* get the weekly chest, so with that they end up gearing faster.

    Just seems odd that they specifically pushed the point that it shouldn't matter if your avenue is Raid, M+ or PvP and then gimp M+ gearing more than any other avenue.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I kinda like this idea in essence.
    I hope they soon remove key depletion and loosen up the timers a bit so the pug scene gets less toxic.
    Last edited by Tronski; 2020-09-28 at 05:09 PM.

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    So heroic raids are 213 and max mythic+ end of dungeon loot is 210 i guess?
    yes but your gear will come from the weekly chest anyways thats blizzs plan for gearing, they redused raid gear drops too and have this big vault with up to 9 times to pick from this is how all will gear up (unless lucky in raid)
    I.O BFA Season 3


  11. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Druid ist Op View Post
    yes but your gear will come from the weekly chest anyways thats blizzs plan for gearing, they redused raid gear drops too and have this big vault with up to 9 times to pick from this is how all will gear up (unless lucky in raid)
    Yea i understood that part of it. The way people were talking i was expecting mythic+ to drop normal level gear at the end of the run or something lmao. This doesn't seem that bad. Though I do think they could have just given it the extra 3 points for the sake of people who want to trade gear in heroic raids.

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    Yea i understood that part of it. The way people were talking i was expecting mythic+ to drop normal level gear at the end of the run or something lmao. This doesn't seem that bad. Though I do think they could have just given it the extra 3 points for the sake of people who want to trade gear in heroic raids.
    this is the reason why they did it in the first place, to fuck us top 50 raider so we cant trade gear in our split raids
    I.O BFA Season 3


  13. #473
    I don't know why some people equate "raiding rewards the best gear" with "raid or die". There is still a lot of other stuff to do, but you should not be able to catch up to someone who raids if you don't. Your personal endgame would then be some other content besides raiding. This is how mmos are supposed to be.

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelyron View Post
    I don't know why some people equate "raiding rewards the best gear" with "raid or die". There is still a lot of other stuff to do, but you should not be able to catch up to someone who raids if you don't. Your personal endgame would then be some other content besides raiding. This is how mmos are supposed to be.
    I think part of that is blizzards fault, as they want PvP and M+ to be their own separate end game activities that you can invest yourself in... but potentially the best gear for those activities still comes from raiding. And those activities don't really have a defined end point like raiding does. There is no end boss, you just keep pushing.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  15. #475
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuciek View Post
    Since I'm mostly PvP player, I'd love it if it was just this to do every week.

    What I would like to do when I log in to WoW? Play arena with my teammates, go do some battlegrounds, duel with friends, do some occasional world PvP. M+ and raids when I'm in the mood. In BFA I had to do A LOT of things, a lot of things that I didn't want to do. There were so many things to do to stay competitive that I didn't had time to do the things that I would like to do. There are actually so many things I'd like to do in this game that I don't have time to do, because I have to do my WoW chores.

    I'd like to have more time for transmog runs, for playing my alts, I'd like to try pet battles more than once a year. Hell, maybe I'd even have time to actually raid again because I would do arenas instead of all those dailies and than I would have time to join my guild in raids more often.

    Looking forward to less chores and more fun in a video game.
    Same. I should have time for alt runs again.

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    I think part of that is blizzards fault, as they want PvP and M+ to be their own separate end game activities that you can invest yourself in... but potentially the best gear for those activities still comes from raiding. And those activities don't really have a defined end point like raiding does. There is no end boss, you just keep pushing.
    people asked for other end game options though... this is such a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" comment

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    I think part of that is blizzards fault, as they want PvP and M+ to be their own separate end game activities that you can invest yourself in... but potentially the best gear for those activities still comes from raiding. And those activities don't really have a defined end point like raiding does. There is no end boss, you just keep pushing.
    Blizz is also being extremely generous with this proposed looting system, as it basically still allows everyone to be on equal footing in the end (except the extreme minority who will get a couple ilvl higher pieces from the last two raid bosses on mythic). Essentially, it's trying to achieve one of the goals of WF/TFing: allow everyone, regardless of content to catch up to mythic raiders in terms of gear, it'll just take longer. Only difference is that much of the random luck has been removed from the system. With how the weekly vault works, players in M+/PvP will catch up even faster to mythic raiders than the speed they typically achieved in BfA due to unlocking multiple choices and reducing the chance you get repeat and/or terrible loot.

    As has been stated ad nauseum, the loot changes as a whole are to rebalance the loot system to make all content matter, allowing players to focus on what they want without the need to stray into content they don't desire. Again, Blizz is being generous in this regard, as they could've easily had it so mythic raid gear was clearly superior to everything. They may go this route in the future, who knows.

    .
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by Elbob View Post
    people asked for other end game options though... this is such a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" comment
    How do you figure?

    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    Blizz is also being extremely generous with this proposed looting system, as it basically still allows everyone to be on equal footing in the end (except the extreme minority who will get a couple ilvl higher pieces from the last two raid bosses on mythic). Essentially, it's trying to achieve one of the goals of WF/TFing: allow everyone, regardless of content to catch up to mythic raiders in terms of gear, it'll just take longer. Only difference is that much of the random luck has been removed from the system. With how the weekly vault works, players in M+/PvP will catch up even faster to mythic raiders than the speed they typically achieved in BfA due to unlocking multiple choices and reducing the chance you get repeat and/or terrible loot.

    As has been stated ad nauseum, the loot changes as a whole are to rebalance the loot system to make all content matter, allowing players to focus on what they want without the need to stray into content they don't desire. Again, Blizz is being generous in this regard, as they could've easily had it so mythic raid gear was clearly superior to everything. They may go this route in the future, who knows.
    I don't think the vault is a good or satisfying solution to that problem though. Especially since it doesn't really reward you with achieving or pushing content like raiding does. If I kill that end boss I see that immediate list of rewards our raid got, if I complete a +28 I get rewarded the exact same pull that a person who completed a +15 gets.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  19. #479
    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Druid ist Op View Post
    this is the reason why they did it in the first place, to fuck us top 50 raider so we cant trade gear in our split raids
    I don't think there are a lot of players like me, but I welcome this change because I don't have the time for split raids.
    This makes the gearing progression at the start of a tier much slower.

    This means for me that I can compete with my skill rather than having to "auto lose" to someone who had more time. In ALL expansions except Legion and BfA, the gearing process wasn't plagued by split runs and armor-runs to inflate gear levels to an obscene amount.
    And it felt goood that I can kick some high-end raiders ass on WCL from my "top" 1500 guild.

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    How do you figure?
    I think part of that is blizzards fault, as they want PvP and M+ to be their own separate end game activities that you can invest yourself in...
    People asked for end game options other than raiding so blizzard provided but apparently its their fault for giving people what they asked for.

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