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  1. #21
    I dont understand these posts, WoW itself is raid or die, they never add content that lasts more than a few hours /6 months anyway for a few years now.

    Its literally, do the bare minimum each day for a few weeks/month after every patch, then do what you enjoy.

    Plus, the gear is gonna be much less to what people are used to for the last 2 expansions, so i can bet the casual base that considers Mythic dungeons to be "oh so hard" and "omg i am introvert" will take forever to do the minimal as always.

    I dont really see a problem.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    honest question, please let's discuss this without hate.

    from what i have heard and seen on the beta only renown (~1h/week) and Torghast (also ~1h per week) offer Character progression.

    In addition to that we just learned that m+ gear will be before heroic raid gear.

    this means that if you raid mythic, your are done with all your weekly stuff in 2-3h (depending if you choose to do 1 m+ for the cache).

    ofc you could also do more m+ for more item selection, but this is very, very inefficient. still posdible tho.

    i understand many people like this, because they are free to do other things ingame now. my personal problem here is, that I am actually only really interested in things that offer Character progression and those are now heavily timegated.

    do i miss something? is there really nothing to do at max level besides the things I listed? would be a shame if this becomes a raidlogging expansion.
    You're exactly right here. But unfortunately for you this is what A LOT of players have been asking for, including myself. We don't want everything in the game to be centered around character progression. And the best thing about it, is that it is going to be much much easier to keep alts. So I'm extremely happy for this change. Also I don't do M+ for the rewards. I do M+ because I actually enjoy the content and pushing keys.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Can't make everyone happy, this allows us to keep a few alts up to level easier.
    Exactly. I much rather want to play alts than having to put thousands of hours into only one character.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Toybox View Post
    The weekly Mythic+ cache still gives Mythic Raid iLvl loot, and thanks to the choice system, getting a (near) full loadout of really good item level pieces shouldn't be an issue at all.
    And everyone is crying about 3 ilvl compared to heroic raid gear but they fail to see that you only need +14 to get mythic raid level chest instead of +15 in BFA.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by NatePsy View Post
    Yeah not every M+ difficulty gives 210 though, that's only 15+, the levels prior to that are on par with Normal loot or less AND once per run. I get their strategy, M+ dropped too much at once and that is fine (Limiting it to one per dungeon) but to go ahead and make the ilvl worse than it was in BFA and Legion? That's bs.

    M+ is clearly a popular piece of content, why go to this length to make it utter shit for those that enjoy it?
    It's not going to be utter shit for me. I do M+ because I enjoy M+. The reward doesn't really matter because I will be mythic geared anyway. If you only do M+ for the reward then you don't really enjoy the content in the first place.

  5. #25
    Everyone is freaking out about the change and the difference in gear from a 210 to 213 is 1 primary 2 stam and 1 secondary. If your top performance is nerfed by a combined 4 stats you got problems.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Raable View Post
    Everyone is freaking out about the change and the difference in gear from a 210 to 213 is 1 primary 2 stam and 1 secondary. If your top performance is nerfed by a combined 4 stats you got problems.
    Yea, a well itemized 210 piece is still going to be considerably better than a worse itemized 213 piece.

  7. #27
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    * in male Tortollian voice *
    Hah! If raidlogging becomes possible again, I'll come back and will poke all my old buddies! At our age raidlogging is the only realistic option!

    Seriously, my oldtimer "skilled casual" Mythic raidlogging guild imploded in Legion when people realized how much grinding was necessary to get CE in Nighthold.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    It's not 2004. People have lives, jobs, families etc

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by burek View Post
    It seems so, yes. Back to raid or die.
    This isn't what raid or die referred to at all. WoD was raid or die due to very little to do outside of raid that was relevant to your character at all for EVERY player. I see this more as an olive branch to mythic raiders after the insane grinds that were the neck, and to a somewhat lesser extent artifact weapons. Heroic raiders (and below) still have a whole host of relevant content outside of raid, but typically those players don't see it as absolutely mandatory.

    It's also worth noting that the end of week +15 is on par with mythic ilvl (aside from the last 2 bosses), and will likely have some pretty nice pieces that mythic raiders will want, so wanting 3 chances at getting the one or 2 items you need isn't THAT far fetched.

  9. #29
    Hnnnnnnng, of course they went ahead and crunched the M+ structure as soon as I don't have time to raid with the guild anymore.

    Maybe I'll make it a clean break instead ;_;

  10. #30
    You can always play alts. That is the idea. You can do more mythic+ to add chest options. You can PvP to add chest option.

    I honestly like it better this way. I don't want to have to log in everyday to stay competitive for the raid.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2020-09-16 at 04:20 PM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    BC and Wrath were very raid or die, which is what I referring to
    Wotlk, yes, TBC, no.

    You could progress pretty far in TBC without ever touching a raid, heroics were on par / superior to a lot of T4 items, Craftables sometimes lasted into T6.
    Not to mention all the badge stuff you could buy later on, which you could farm without doing raids.

    And obviously PvP provided a decent alternative as well.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    honest question, please let's discuss this without hate.

    from what i have heard and seen on the beta only renown (~1h/week) and Torghast (also ~1h per week) offer Character progression.

    In addition to that we just learned that m+ gear will be before heroic raid gear.

    this means that if you raid mythic, your are done with all your weekly stuff in 2-3h (depending if you choose to do 1 m+ for the cache).

    ofc you could also do more m+ for more item selection, but this is very, very inefficient. still posdible tho.

    i understand many people like this, because they are free to do other things ingame now. my personal problem here is, that I am actually only really interested in things that offer Character progression and those are now heavily timegated.

    do i miss something? is there really nothing to do at max level besides the things I listed? would be a shame if this becomes a raidlogging expansion.
    What why? Do Mythic+ nothing else.
    Do PvP.
    Do raiding.
    Do old content...

    heavens...
    A 15 Mythic is easier than heroic raiding. Why would it give you better loot?

    If you are only interested in gear... still do mythic+. You won't be decked out in heroic gear in weak one.

    There is exactly as much to do as before.
    If you only EVER go for the highets reward you have been only able to do mythic raiding and the weekly mythic+ in BfA too... so... no change there

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantique View Post
    Hnnnnnnng, of course they went ahead and crunched the M+ structure as soon as I don't have time to raid with the guild anymore.

    Maybe I'll make it a clean break instead ;_;
    HOW IS IT DIFFERENT FROM NOW??????
    Like now if you spam it you get HEROIC ilvl gear. In SL you ll get ONLY 3 ilvls bellow.
    in BOTH SL and BfA you only get mythic raid gear lvl from the weekly chest.
    How did they ruin your precious structure? You ll be getting mythic gear from +15 just like before and you ll have even more choices now if you do more M+s

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    BC and Wrath were very raid or die, which is what I referring to
    It if it was BC style I'd go for it, when raids were just raids, not many levels of difference and group sizes.
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Can't make everyone happy, this allows us to keep a few alts up to level easier.
    actualy, this will make gearing up alts harder as only way to do it will be raiding...

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakna View Post
    It if it was BC style I'd go for it, when raids were just raids, not many levels of difference and group sizes.
    Out of curiousity, what is wrong with variable raid sizes?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Better View Post
    It's also worth noting that the end of week +15 is on par with mythic ilvl (aside from the last 2 bosses), and will likely have some pretty nice pieces that mythic raiders will want, so wanting 3 chances at getting the one or 2 items you need isn't THAT far fetched.
    It's +14 for best chest in SL. Everyone seem to miss that info in the same news about 3 ilvl nerf.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    It's like Blizzard learns nothing, ever. It's actually kind of impressive. So for me as a Mythic raider what this means is that I'll login for my weekly raid, logout, and not touch WoW until the following week. How amazingly boring.
    I can't wait until the SL = WoD comparisons starts dawning unto people. :P

  19. #39
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    Top Tier Raiding should always be the top progression.
    It takes the most work. It takes a dedicated group working in unison.
    PvP is about solo performance and/or 2-3 man teams.
    Mythic+ 5 man teams
    Raiding non Mythic is so easy because of scaling.
    Mythic raiding is difficult because not only the raid difficulty but the Roster boss as well.
    Trying to get 20 solid people who can function as a single unit with same goals is challenging in itself.

    Its about time Blizzard got something right. Mythic Raiding is the Top Tier Progression.. Period.
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Arch-Angel of Riots View Post
    I can't wait until the SL = WoD comparisons starts dawning unto people. :P
    Okay, let's try.

    WoD - Had M+? No.
    BFA - Will have M+? Yes.

    Here, done. They're different expansions.

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