Page 6 of 25 FirstFirst ...
4
5
6
7
8
16
... LastLast
  1. #101
    Legendary! TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Texas(I wish it were CO)
    Posts
    6,936
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    It's like Blizzard learns nothing, ever. It's actually kind of impressive. So for me as a Mythic raider what this means is that I'll login for my weekly raid, logout, and not touch WoW until the following week. How amazingly boring. I was already not very excited for SL and this just puts the interest meter somewhere around 0. They went from a fuckton of optional content that had the potential to be rewarding in Legion to "lol raid log, nothing else is worth it." in SL. Absolutely massive step backwards.

    They created an alternative to raiding in M+ and it was actually quite good and now they're crippling it.
    You're acting as if M+ is somehow being removed, when it isn't. You can still push high keys in SL and be rewarded for it, you just aren't going to be showered in loot from every single run. If you enjoy M+ I don't see why you'd complain about having to do more of it. If you don't enjoy M+, but you just liked getting easy loot, then it isn't really fair to claim you liked M+.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    Intelligence is like four wheel drive, it's not going to make you unstoppable, it just sort of tends to get you stuck in more remote places.
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    If you want to be disgusted, next time you kiss someone remember you've got your mouth on the end of a tube which has shit at the other end, held back by a couple of valves.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    If you check my opening post you will see that I am specifically talking about what happens when you mythic raid. That is where the problems mainly are.

    - - - Updated - - -



    ... What does minmax vs casuals has to do with that? E.g. I am a minmax and I hate that there is nothing to do for me except raids.
    Ok... I just checked it again to make sure I m not missing anything. And I still do not get how that is different than any other expansion. Except if you count running stuff for a slim chance at getting the drop you want with another slim chance on top of getting the right corruption with another slim chance of it being the correct corruption rank with another slim chance of it being titanforged.
    Most of the people did not like titanforging and all this rng bullshit. There is plenty of things to do to progress your character. Except now its not rng based. A game where there is literally nothing else but raiding in order to progress your characters power is Classic.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    ... What does minmax vs casuals has to do with that? E.g. I am a minmax and I hate that there is nothing to do for me except raids.
    There's plenty to do - you just don't see the value in it if there's no gear reward. Besides, with the m+ cache being the best it's ever been, there's always going to be value in doing M+ for progression.

  4. #104
    Legendary! TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Texas(I wish it were CO)
    Posts
    6,936
    Quote Originally Posted by Donimic View Post
    it will take over 20weeks to get a full set of doing 15x +15 runs to get a full set, and even longer to get a full set with desirable stats. that is a huge issue.
    How is that a huge issue? That doesn't sound any different than raiding to me. I don't remember getting a full set of BiS gear for literally any tier other than Dragon Soul (and even then, I only reached full BiS about 3 weeks before the MoP pre-patch). Most tiers it took me anywhere from 10-24 weeks to get about 70% of the pieces I was aiming for, and this is counting WotLK through all of MoP and the first tier of WoD and Legion (I don't remember if I actually raided throughout all of WoD, and I quit during Legion).

    Raiders always had to deal with time gates on RNG, the fact that M+ allowed players to skip those time gates is the only part of this scenario that was screwy, and it is finally being corrected.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    Intelligence is like four wheel drive, it's not going to make you unstoppable, it just sort of tends to get you stuck in more remote places.
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    If you want to be disgusted, next time you kiss someone remember you've got your mouth on the end of a tube which has shit at the other end, held back by a couple of valves.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by NatePsy View Post
    And you really think in this day and age, that they would survive on that sort of mentality? They evolve their systems for a reason, demographic shifts over time and it never stays the same. Not everybody wants to raid and log off bro, nor do we have the time to be stuck on a schedule as if it was a second job.

    BC and Wrath were successful, in an era that is not the same as today's era of MMO players. What worked 10 years ago, won't be guaranteed to work today.
    have you seen how popular wrath servers are?people are crazy about it,there are private servers out there with more players than other mmo's

  6. #106
    Stood in the Fire Krimzin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    436
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuciek View Post
    Also one mistake can cost you a game in arena and one mistake can cost you a key im M+. Yet you disregard any difficulty level in those just because raids require more people. It's right, they do, but that also means that there's less responsibility per person than there is in smaller grups. Different content = different "skill set".

    Just tell me, do you think that killing first few bosses on mythic Ny'alotha is harder than finishing +30 key or getting Gladiator?

    Also what's harder, winning Champions League (11v11) or Wimbledon (1v1) ?
    An MMO isnt a single player game, so Wimbledon reference is moot.

    I personally think they Mythic+ should continue to give higher ilvl gear and once you pass Mythic+20-25 it should be same ilvl as Mythic raiding. Mythic+15 as easy as Heroic raids so it shouldn't give higher ilvl gear. Blizzard stopping Mythic+ gear at 15 is a mistake in my opinion. Other than bragging rights, Mythic+ 16 and above is pointless. If you want people to push content, you need to reward them for pushing it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    and mythic raiding currently DOES reward best gear...
    but after this change even HC raiding, which is middle tier, will reward better gear than any m+ keys even the "top" keys... and that is just stupid...
    I think you will see a change. I think they are prepping to raise the ilvl on gear above 15.
    Just because I'm a gamer doesn't mean I drive a Honda.
    Best Duo Ever
    Go Fast or Go Slow

    Lets see your Battle Stations /r/battlestations
    Battle Station Light or Battle Station Dark




  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    BC and Wrath were very raid or die, which is what I referring to
    No, they weren't. Raiding was extremely niche, very few people did it at all. The power gap between top raiders and entry level players was significantly lower. The attitude toward the game was different.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Krimzin View Post
    An MMO isnt a single player game, so Wimbledon reference is moot.

    I personally think they Mythic+ should continue to give higher ilvl gear and once you pass Mythic+20-25 it should be same ilvl as Mythic raiding. Mythic+15 as easy as Heroic raids so it shouldn't give higher ilvl gear. Blizzard stopping Mythic+ gear at 15 is a mistake in my opinion. Other than bragging rights, Mythic+ 16 and above is pointless. If you want people to push content, you need to reward them for pushing it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I think you will see a change. I think they are prepping to raise the ilvl on gear above 15.
    If they are it is a significant 180 on previous discussions. The reason they capped it to 15 is because it gave them lee-way not to balance properly; everyone "could" finish a 15 so who cares about balance. Higher scaling rewards lead to higher scaling balance issues.

    I certainly hope you're right, but it's a decision which opens them up to having to do more work, so I have significant doubts.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    honest question, please let's discuss this without hate.

    from what i have heard and seen on the beta only renown (~1h/week) and Torghast (also ~1h per week) offer Character progression.

    In addition to that we just learned that m+ gear will be before heroic raid gear.

    this means that if you raid mythic, your are done with all your weekly stuff in 2-3h (depending if you choose to do 1 m+ for the cache).

    ofc you could also do more m+ for more item selection, but this is very, very inefficient. still posdible tho.

    i understand many people like this, because they are free to do other things ingame now. my personal problem here is, that I am actually only really interested in things that offer Character progression and those are now heavily timegated.

    do i miss something? is there really nothing to do at max level besides the things I listed? would be a shame if this becomes a raidlogging expansion.
    As someone who probably will not raid this expansion, I personally have no issue with how things are laid out. I'll have plenty to keep me busy.

    I feel like if the only thing you want to do is get the best gear, and the best gear is in the raid, then you're good to go and I'd personally prefer raiders whipping out the time honored tradition of complaining there's "no content" rather than complaining about how they need to do these 50 other things just so they can raid.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Krimzin View Post
    I think you will see a change. I think they are prepping to raise the ilvl on gear above 15.
    if that was the case i have no issue, but if it stays as it is it will be ridiculous reward structure

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    It's like Blizzard learns nothing, ever. It's actually kind of impressive. So for me as a Mythic raider what this means is that I'll login for my weekly raid, logout, and not touch WoW until the following week. How amazingly boring. I was already not very excited for SL and this just puts the interest meter somewhere around 0. They went from a fuckton of optional content that had the potential to be rewarding in Legion to "lol raid log, nothing else is worth it." in SL. Absolutely massive step backwards.

    They created an alternative to raiding in M+ and it was actually quite good and now they're crippling it.
    And at the same time they had raiders burning out at a rate unheard of, constant complaints about being "forced" to do old content with the hope that something would titanforge enough to be useful, and endless grinds for fractions of a percent of power. They added endless grinding for people who enjoyed it, only for people with no self control to end up hating the game, and themselves, for doing it.

    As for an alternative to raiding, very few people do mythic raiding. The vast majority of raiders are doing normal or heroic. M+ capping out at heroic gear with a weekly mythic piece is fine. That's what we had from the weekly raid chest missions in WoD.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Krimzin View Post
    An MMO isnt a single player game, so Wimbledon reference is moot.
    Nice job dismissing argument because you don't like it. Let's change it for you. What's harder to win, Champions League or Wimbledon doubles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krimzin View Post
    I personally think they Mythic+ should continue to give higher ilvl gear and once you pass Mythic+20-25 it should be same ilvl as Mythic raiding. Mythic+15 as easy as Heroic raids so it shouldn't give higher ilvl gear. Blizzard stopping Mythic+ gear at 15 is a mistake in my opinion. Other than bragging rights, Mythic+ 16 and above is pointless. If you want people to push content, you need to reward them for pushing it.
    So you admit that smaller groups content can be as hard as raids?

    I agree that M+ should drop better gear at higher keys up to mythic raid level, but with a limit on drops, like the one in Visions.

  12. #112
    I'm quite looking forward to these changes.
    The ilvl offset is probably there to mitigate the lack of class-sets in the 1st tier.

    I'd be OK with it if they made it a +15 end of the run ilvl = heroic drop ilvl

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuciek View Post
    Also one mistake can cost you a game in arena and one mistake can cost you a key im M+. Yet you disregard any difficulty level in those just because raids require more people. It's right, they do, but that also means that there's less responsibility per person than there is in smaller grups. Different content = different "skill set".

    Just tell me, do you think that killing first few bosses on mythic Ny'alotha is harder than finishing +30 key or getting Gladiator?

    Also what's harder, winning Champions League (11v11) or Wimbledon (1v1) ?
    To the bolded part: I don't know and i doubt i ever will; and considering you seem to think these 2 sports fit into the same category indicates you are even further off from ever knowing it than me.

  13. #113
    Let's shove content down people's throats. It worked out great for BFA.

    My mates were thrilled when they found out they had to grind arenas to get Conflict and Strife.

    Wait a minute... That's why people flocked to Classic! They must be missing raiding for a couple of hours, then logging out for the rest of the week badly.

    Classic must mean we're back in 2005. HAHA there is no Youtube. Even if they ragequit what are they gonna do with their spare time? It's not like there's tons of interesting games out there.

    Balancing M+ is hard bruh. Meta is stale 2 expansions later and now we gotta come up with new interesting affixes? Who thought this would be a good idea? Abort. Abort. Pull the plug.

    I like turtles.

    P.S They can't complain about not being able to juggle between covenants for different types of content if there's only one type of content. Modern problems require modern solutions.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Zmagoslav View Post
    To the bolded part: I don't know and i doubt i ever will; and considering you seem to think these 2 sports fit into the same category indicates you are even further off from ever knowing it than me.
    But that was exactly my point. You just proved my point. That guy said that Mythic raiding is the hardest part of the game because it requires the biggest group. And I did that comparison just to show that there might be two paths, two different contents (sports) that you can't even compare because they require different skill set. They are two different things and you can't say one is harder than the order just like that.

    Just like you can't say that Mythic raiding is harder than PvP or M+, because they are different type of content, and in my opinion they should reward equal rewards (at comparable levels of difficulty, based on percentage of players being able to complete it).

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    You're acting as if M+ is somehow being removed, when it isn't. You can still push high keys in SL and be rewarded for it, you just aren't going to be showered in loot from every single run. If you enjoy M+ I don't see why you'd complain about having to do more of it. If you don't enjoy M+, but you just liked getting easy loot, then it isn't really fair to claim you liked M+.
    I can't believe that you, as a raider, threw out this argument. Do you enjoy raiding? If yes, then would you be fine with them reducing raid loot to let's say 1/5 of what you currently get? Obviously you shouldn't complain about having to do more of raiding if you enjoy it - maybe even make it so that you can get only 1 item for a full clear, but you can clear it twice a week. More raiding because of less loot = more fun for you!

    Because by your logic we might as well drop the loot from raiding to 1 piece per boss for the whole group. If you don't enjoy raiding, but just want to get easy loot, then you shouldn't have a problem with m+ yielding easy loot for yourself as well.

    No, the point is that raiders and m+ players probably both do it because they 1) enjoy it, but also because 2) they get rewarded. If the reward feels off compared to the difficulty and time commitment, then the content isn't that fun anymore. I doubt you would raid if it yielded no rewards, no matter how fun it is. If rewards are meaningless for you, then I don't know why you have a problem with high m+ rewards.

    And by the way, I am a mythic raider and completely fine with this change as it allows me to raid log - no need to even do the +15 every week if I don't have time.
    Last edited by facefist; 2020-09-17 at 06:51 AM.

  16. #116
    I don't care, but i think the ilvl should be at least the same as heroic raids. High end keys are more difficult than heroic raids.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    pugging a 15 in time is 100000% easier than pugging heroic
    Your profile pic. goes so well with your statement that i don't even need to add anything.

  18. #118
    Perfect example why listening to the glorified "community" is the plague that constantly screws up the game:

    BfA: TOO MANY CHORES, PLEASE BLIZZ DO SOMETHING
    SL: I HAVE LITERALLY NOTHING TO DO

  19. #119
    So glad i held off on buying Shadowlands.

    Raid or die does not work in 2020.

    I'm out, plenty of great games to play that launch around the same time as Shadowlands, rather give them my money.

    Don't feel like pushing high level Mythic+ keys to have a 20% chance of being rewarded with an item that is lower ilvl than what i could get rolling my face on a keyboard during a heroic raid.
    Last edited by DeiVias; 2020-09-17 at 07:22 AM.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by DeiVias View Post
    So glad i held off on buying Shadowlands.

    Raid or die does not work in 2020.

    I'm out, plenty of great games to play that launch around the same time as Shadowlands, rather give them my money.

    Don't feel like pushing high level Mythic+ keys to have a 20% chance of being rewarded with an item that is lower ilvl than what i could get rolling my face on a keyboard during a heroic raid.
    Imagine quitting over a 3 ilvl difference from what is essentially spammable content vs a piece of content that is on a weekly lockout that could give you nothing.
    Kind glad you re heading off. Dont need more drama like this in the game.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •