Mythic Raiding in SL = all other content not relevant?

[kappalol]

honest question, please let's discuss this without hate.

from what i have heard and seen on the beta only renown (~1h/week) and Torghast (also ~1h per week) offer Character progression.

In addition to that we just learned that m+ gear will be before heroic raid gear.

this means that if you raid mythic, your are done with all your weekly stuff in 2-3h (depending if you choose to do 1 m+ for the cache).

ofc you could also do more m+ for more item selection, but this is very, very inefficient. still posdible tho.

i understand many people like this, because they are free to do other things ingame now. my personal problem here is, that I am actually only really interested in things that offer Character progression and those are now heavily timegated.

do i miss something? is there really nothing to do at max level besides the things I listed? would be a shame if this becomes a raidlogging expansion.

You can finally do even things you want and not only things you must.

[Beatman]

Blizzard has to make x-realm mythic raiding possible from the start... For alliance it takes half the raid tier before I can raid mythic (playing on a dead server)...

[Cathfaern]

BC and Wrath were very raid or die, which is what I referring to

And Cataclysm and MoP. Practically everything* were very raid or die except for BfA and maybe Legion. I'm a total casual, so it doesn't really matter for me, but it was a weird experience when in BfA I realized there is no reason for me to go into even normal raids, because I have similar ilvl from other sources.

*including Vanilla. The only reason Vanilla was not raid or die because it was new for people and even jumping around a critter bunny for 2 hours while talking with another human being on chat seemed fun for most

[Gorsameth]

That is bad game design. Making the game feel like shit for everyone except the top 5% is profoundly stupid.

The hardest content gives the best rewards, this isn't rocket science and doesn't make the game feel bad for everyone else".

Previously there was nothing in the game to do besides raid, that's why it was raid or die.
With WQ's and M+ existing this is much less of an issue.

[Lolites]

The hardest content gives the best rewards, this isn't rocket science and doesn't make the game feel bad for everyone else".

Previously there was nothing in the game to do besides raid, that's why it was raid or die.
With WQ's and M+ existing this is much less of an issue.

yep, thats why mythic raids give best rewards, even now

why though HC raid should give better gear than +15? when it comes to difficulty its about the same as +15, but it gives better gear now... why?
and for +20 or higher its outright stupid...

[Eazy]

That is bad game design. Making the game feel like shit for everyone except the top 5% is profoundly stupid.

Why it would feel for everyone else like shit? Your DMG done doesn't matter when you are doing LFR/Normal/HC, <15 M+, <2000 rating.

Your priority at less skill-capped content isn't doing most of the DMG and min-maxing your charcter, but to have fun. You have fun while doing DMG/min-max your char? Then do the TOP 5% content. Simple as that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[erifwodahs]

Fantastic change, this makes me want to join a guild and raid again.... Raid log is perfect, who has time to spend days in a video game, every single week....??
Also only raids offering the highest quality gear is a blessing, can differentiate between scrubs and not. Bravo blizz, a step in the right direction. SL might actually be pretty good after all

Scrubs who raid 5 months to be be 6/10 vs people who have the skill to complete a +25 in time.

[NineSpine]

The hardest content gives the best rewards, this isn't rocket science and doesn't make the game feel bad for everyone else".

Previously there was nothing in the game to do besides raid, that's why it was raid or die.
With WQ's and M+ existing this is much less of an issue.

What does that have to do with balancing the game only around the top 5% and letting everyone else fuck off?

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Why it would feel for everyone else like shit? Your DMG done doesn't matter when you are doing LFR/Normal/HC, <15 M+, <2000 rating.

Your priority at less skill-capped content isn't doing most of the DMG and min-maxing your charcter, but to have fun.

People still want to feel relatively balanced. Nobody wants to walk into a dungeon and the mage does 75% of the damage even if he is the worst player just because the game is only balanced at the extremes.

And more importantly people don’t want to feel their class changed and nerfed because 1% of people are pulling ahead in top tier content with the same spec when that spec is perfectly balanced for everyone else. You think that feels good? “We took away this thing you enjoyed because a mythic raider was doing well with it”. What shit design. I’d get laughed out of a design meeting with that proposal.

[VinceVega]

yep, thats why mythic raids give best rewards, even now

why though HC raid should give better gear than +15? when it comes to difficulty its about the same as +15, but it gives better gear now... why?
and for +20 or higher its outright stupid...

In the end the Mythic+ player will have better gear, than the pure heroic raider.
But there is nor reason to make a spammable ressource for gear so strong.

Cap it at 3 runs per week where you are eligabel for loot then i don't mind.

[epLe]

Nothing scares "mythic raiders" more than "casuals" getting equal gear as them.

[Accendor]

I just hope there's some sort of progression for the player that doesn't want to do manually grouped content that doesn't immediately dry up in a week. So long as I can have my path I can whittle away at and feel like I'm making progress toward, I'm happy. That's why I loved MoP so much, aside from the lack of dungeons being useful (but you still felt like they were worth doing to help toward badges and stuff). Since after that, it felt like that kind of player had almost nothing any fun to do unless you only played 1 hour a week or something.

Give me that, and I don't give a fuck if Mythic raiders have like 5,000 ilvls over me.

TBH, if it continues the trend of what it has been doing, I may just sit this one out until it's over, and just do all the content in a couple of months before the next expansion is out. I really miss MoP

Yeah, that's not in SL, sorry

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Nothing scares "mythic raiders" more than "casuals" getting equal gear as them.

What has that to do with anything in this thread?

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tip: change server.

Sure, just invest like 200 euro for fun, lets go

[erifwodahs]

Why it would feel for everyone else like shit? Your DMG done doesn't matter when you are doing LFR/Normal/HC, <15 M+, <2000 rating.

Your priority at less skill-capped content isn't doing most of the DMG and min-maxing your charcter, but to have fun. You have fun while doing DMG/min-max your char? Then do the TOP 5% content. Simple as that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

tbc end of the dungeon loot, one peace only which is sub HC level is shit design unless they add another step in the ladder for let's say +20 where you get something between HC and Mythic. On given affixes a +15 in time may be harder to clear than any HC boss early on in the season.
HC raid you get more and better loot and in M+ you spend more time for less loot.

Maybe blizz looked at key pushers and said that "they don't do it for loot anyway" which is mostly true later in season but it was better with TF. Removing TF was bad enough hit for M+ runners, now we literally do stuff for no reward what so ever.

[Eapoe]

I don’t quite understanding. People bitched and moaned about having nothing to do every xpac, so isn’t this more of the same. You should be used to it. Let the people who want time off from the game without feeling like they miss out on something have it.

[Lolites]

In the end the Mythic+ player will have better gear, than the pure heroic raider.
But there is nor reason to make a spammable ressource for gear so strong.

Cap it at 3 runs per week where you are eligabel for loot then i don't mind.

in the end of patch perhaps, getting fully geared from weekly chest takes AT LEAST 16weeks...

problem is it already drops LESS gear than raid, so 3 M+ runs per week means most likely no gear... if they cap it at number of 1-2 pieces per week, or increase amount of drops, so it is on par with raid, then it would be fine to cap it, but when the chance you actualy get something is so ridiculously low caping the amount of runs is killing it...

[Toybox]

in the end of patch perhaps, getting fully geared from weekly chest takes AT LEAST 16weeks...

problem is it already drops LESS gear than raid, so 3 M+ runs per week means most likely no gear... if they cap it at number of 1-2 pieces per week, or increase amount of drops, so it is on par with raid, then it would be fine to cap it, but when the chance you actualy get something is so ridiculously low caping the amount of runs is killing it...

How long does it take to get fully geared from mythic? Around 16 weeks sounds about right for a decent guild. Also I don't see it mentioned enough, but raids bosses are dropping less loot in Shadowlands.

I do like & agree with your idea of keys higher than 15 dropping higher loot though. If 20s dropped loot closer to mythic iLvl, even with it being infinitely replayable content, the fact it'd only drop one piece would balance the system out.

[Lolites]

How long does it take to get fully geared from mythic? Around 16 weeks sounds about right for a decent guild. Also I don't see it mentioned enough, but raids bosses are dropping less loot in Shadowlands.

I do like & agree with your idea of keys higher than 15 dropping higher loot though. If 20s dropped loot closer to mythic iLvl, even with it being infinitely replayable content, the fact it'd only drop one piece would balance the system out.

its all about luck, you might get lucky or not in raid so perhaps on average it might take 12-16 weeks, HOWEVER, with weekly chest only it takes 16 weeks AT MINIMUM, even if you are luckiest person in the world it cant take less

i mean that would be most reasonable aproach, let +15 be under HC raid, but allow the gear to scale further up, not necesarry to mythic loot from end chest, but halfway through it or so wouldnt be bad for +20

[VinceVega]

in the end of patch perhaps, getting fully geared from weekly chest takes AT LEAST 16weeks...

problem is it already drops LESS gear than raid, so 3 M+ runs per week means most likely no gear... if they cap it at number of 1-2 pieces per week, or increase amount of drops, so it is on par with raid, then it would be fine to cap it, but when the chance you actualy get something is so ridiculously low caping the amount of runs is killing it...

But you are gauranteed a Mythic level drop each week on top from completing ONE 14 key. You need to kill 3 Mythic bosses to see even one. Normal guilds need about a week per boss to progress most don't even kill one.
A 14 key is laughable in comparison.
I was 10 into nylotha mythic and nearly every piece of gear came from the weekly chest not from the raid. I was nearly on mythic ilvl before i stepped foot into a mythic raid. That is just ridicoulus. And they didn't even nerf that part. That part is still in the game.

[confety]

If mythic raiding is the most difficult content in the game its obvious that it should give the best rewards.

Rewards should always equal time and effort.

Lol imagine these people that want +15 to be equal to mythic because they don't have time to raid if world quests/chests scaled up to +15key ilvl because "lol i dont have time to do mythic dungeons but want the same ilvl" like they want.

The game is full of angry instant gratification people that wants the best rewards, right away, doing trivial content

[facefist]

But you are gauranteed a Mythic level drop each week on top from completing ONE 14 key. You need to kill 3 Mythic bosses to see even one. Normal guilds need about a week per boss to progress most don't even kill one.
A 14 key is laughable in comparison.
I was 10 into nylotha mythic and nearly every piece of gear came from the weekly chest not from the raid. I was nearly on mythic ilvl before i stepped foot into a mythic raid. That is just ridicoulus. And they didn't even nerf that part. That part is still in the game.

Your guild must be awesome if you had almost mythic ilvl before stepping foot into a mythic raid. Took you 15 weeks to clear heroic?

If mythic raiding is the most difficult content in the game its obvious that it should give the best rewards.

Rewards should always equal time and effort.

Well the thing is that it isn't entirely true that mythic raids are the most difficult content. The first ~3 mythic bosses are a complete joke compared to 20+ keys.

I agree that +15's obviously shouldnt yield mythic level gear, but what about higher keys? And what about the first mythic bosses that even pretty bad guilds can clear? Not to mention the first heroic bosses, which yield better rewards than +15 key while being A LOT easier.

I mean most guilds clearing heroic bosses during the first week wont have a single group doing +15 in the first week. Doing a +10 is probably as hard (easy) as killing the first hc bosses. Difficulty doesnt match there.

I Love this change anyway because now I can raid log, but saying that this somehow is about matching the difficulty and reward is nonsense. Blizz just wants to reward raiding and that's it.

[Nizah]

They wanted to kill split raids? I dont understand why they would do this, this was completely uncalled for. I really hope they revert this changes. I was fine with the fact that you only get one piece of gear at end of dungeon, but scalling the end of dungeon ilvl reward by 8 ilvls compared to heroic is beyond my understanding.

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This is a good thing

There is a plethora of optional content for you at max level - but seemingly not anywhere near as much content required of you versus BFA or even Legion
It's already better than WoD because of the existence of m+ (which still gives a mythic quality item per week and you'll maybe wanna farm multiple keys for a bigger loot pool), not to mention the optional content. The extent of optional content in WoD was rep farms and apexis dailies - both of which were completely pointless and unfun

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So when the game was at its peak then

So having more options is bad, why ?