Mythic Raiding in SL = all other content not relevant?

[dmitriy138]

And you really think in this day and age, that they would survive on that sort of mentality? They evolve their systems for a reason, demographic shifts over time and it never stays the same. Not everybody wants to raid and log off bro, nor do we have the time to be stuck on a schedule as if it was a second job.

BC and Wrath were successful, in an era that is not the same as today's era of MMO players. What worked 10 years ago, won't be guaranteed to work today.

there's a reason game is dead, there's a reason classic has more players. Try again.

I have had to take breaks from old WoW because I didn't have time to dedicate to raids, doesn't mean ill force my trash ideology for an mmorpg of raids not being the best for gearing.

Wasn't even planning on coming back to shadowlands but after seeing some of these changes it's tempting. Quit the game if you don't like it.

[Puri]

Now is the what? 8th m+ season, and people still post the same nonsense.

In addition to that we just learned that m+ gear will be before heroic raid gear.

M+ gear quality is always limited to below heroic raid loot until the mythic raid opens. That's been in the game since Legion, and that's what you see on the beta servers.

[Dimmak]

While I did enjoy getting high ilvl loot from Mythic plus my focus was a raider. I felt obligated to do a 15 every week in addition to raiding, farming mats, completing dailies or even the occasional big. I really didn't have a choice. M+ offered a high ilvl peice, a mythic peice each week, a ton of gold and a ton of the current resource. Then they threw visions in there and I literally had to play every day to maintain my one mythic character.

This makes the game extremely anti alt characters. I like to have the option to have at least a second character to experience different story or different game play. So if my chores get cut down to a few hours a week I will be happy.

[Grimbold21]

If you're not a raider and are only doing Mythic+, what sort of loot level are you expecting from the latter?

I'm not being facetious when I ask: do you want m+ loot to be on par with mythic raiding?

[Sithalos]

I love when I'm not punished for raid logging. Good changes.

[Accendor]

do we ignore the 12 keys you have to spam for the valut which is still mythic ilvl? and that dungeon loot can still be better cuz of stats/trinkets that the raid dont offer?

Yes, we ignore that, because every m+ more than one is not only very inefficient, but does not reward MORE loot, it just increases the change in your lootbox.

[Tylanthia]

i understand many people like this, because they are free to do other things ingame now. my personal problem here is, that I am actually only really interested in things that offer Character progression and those are now heavily timegated.

do i miss something? is there really nothing to do at max level besides the things I listed? would be a shame if this becomes a raidlogging expansion.

That sucks for those of us that don't raid mythic. Honestly, it's increasingly looking like legion was a one off. Legion had its flaws but it also offered tons of meaningful content outside raiding--whether it be dungeons, world quests, fishing, archaeology, profession quests/stories, a unique leveling story for each class, etc. So much time and love went into making the entire game great. It's not even about the item level at this point--it doesn't look like much thought/time has been put into shadowlands systems that don't affect raids. That really sucks but suppose that's how it's gonna be.

[Thrillhouse918]

It just makes me eyeroll so hard. Ion and Blizz spew "player choice and agency" yet continually restrict meaningful content. You HAD to run visions at least once a week to keep up cloak, which then let you equip more corruption, which, if you ignored, meant your dps plummeted. Now, the entire M+ community is being told to take a seat behind Heroic Raid at a minimum.

It was bad enough that there were items from Nyalotha that you damn near had to have (e.g. Slappyboi) to be truly effective, but now its like if you want to farm high level keys you have to heroic raid at a minimum. It's really sad. Maybe they can cap enemy damage in M+ and just scale health pool since you can't effectively get stronger gear from keys until your weekly chest at a certain point /s

[Delever]

Yeah, i really strongly prefer to play one character, max 2 if needed for the raid, but that's it.

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Well, before we had the AP systems. They are gone now, so ofc there is much less to do in terms of character progression. Saying it's the same is just not true.

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The difference is that when you raid mythic, you are already heroic equipped and therefore there is no reason to do m+ at all (except the weekly, which is not only timegated but also a lootbox)

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Well, it had CMs...

And how is that different than when you raid mythic in bfa? You still only do it for the weekly as the M15 only gives hc loot at the end

[Twdft]

heavens...
A 15 Mythic is easier than heroic raiding. Why would it give you better loot?

Nope, +15 is harder than heroic raiding.

The only reason you think +15 are easy is because you are mythic rading skill player. Everyone who can do +15 will easily do heroic raiding, but only a fraction of heroic skill raiders can do +15 easily.

[Lolites]

Top Tier Raiding should always be the top progression.
Mythic Raiding is the Top Tier Progression.. Period.

and mythic raiding currently DOES reward best gear...
but after this change even HC raiding, which is middle tier, will reward better gear than any m+ keys even the "top" keys... and that is just stupid...

[DechCJC]

I can't really do Mythic raiding because of how fucked my work schedules are, thankfully I've been able to rely on PvP and M+ at high levels to get me where I needed to be. Is this not a thing anymore? I'd like to think that at least 'elite' PvP gear would be on the same level as mythic gear but we're all seeing how that's going...

Guess I'll just go pet battle or something then?

Please feel free to correct me if i'm being overly dramatic. I just don't see why it can't be at least possible to get the best level of gear from content that's just as hard as (if not harder than) mythic raiding. Obviously I wouldn't mind if I was actually able to Mythic raid...

[Lolites]

BC and Wrath you had PvP sets with ilvls on par with raiding gear from the top tier. I would very much like that back.

and raid gear on vendor for badges from HC dungeons... but god forbid M+15 which actualy have some difficulty rewards useful gear more than once a week...

[shise]

I hope so, that is how it should be.

You should be able to grind gear around in multiple ways but if you raid mythic that should go over everything else.

[Lolites]

there's a reason game is dead, there's a reason classic has more players.

that reason is halucinating, as none of it is true...

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While I did enjoy getting high ilvl loot from Mythic plus my focus was a raider. I felt obligated to do a 15 every week in addition to raiding,

which you still will, as weekly chest doesnt change, "just" end of the run reward, so people will do whole season what most people do on its end - one weekly and done...

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I love when I'm not punished for raid logging. Good changes.

well you "had to" do one M+ for weekly chest, and you still do... for people doing only that NOTHING changes...
it just kind of punishes people who only want to do M+...

[Accendor]

And how is that different than when you raid mythic in bfa? You still only do it for the weekly as the M15 only gives hc loot at the end

Thats only true for 8.3 and even there not completely.

Before 8.3 there was titanforging which prevented exactly this problem.

Even after 8.3, mostly in the first 1-2 months, corruptions were so absurdly busted, that a M15 piece with the right corruption outshined a regular mythic raid piece by a lot.

Of, if you only look at the last few months instead of the last 4 years, then yes, there is no difference.

[Spiffums]

Yeah not every M+ difficulty gives 210 though, that's only 15+, the levels prior to that are on par with Normal loot or less AND once per run. I get their strategy, M+ dropped too much at once and that is fine (Limiting it to one per dungeon) but to go ahead and make the ilvl worse than it was in BFA and Legion? That's bs.

M+ is clearly a popular piece of content, why go to this length to make it utter shit for those that enjoy it?

And here they have been doing so much to keep people playing and they make this change

[munkeyinorbit]

and mythic raiding currently DOES reward best gear...
but after this change even HC raiding, which is middle tier, will reward better gear than any m+ keys even the "top" keys... and that is just stupid...

So it's stupid that the easier content gets gear nerfed? You can literally be completely finished with gearing in m+ in a week. You can spam those m+. Heroic raiding is a lot harder than m+ because you have to deal with all of the dungeon heroes with LFR skill level thinking they're hot shit because Blizzard showered them with gear they don't deserve. What kind of content gives you heroic gear for failing? M+ content.

[Marrilaife]

Finally they're doing something with the uncontrolled spam of m+ "armor stack" runs being a way to get all the gear in a couple of weeks then unsub until next patch...

Loot / player power was always timegated because when it wasn't it led to people binging on that content, getting everything they want, then crying they have nothing more to do until next patch.

Maybe they should have buffed weekly chest that it's not just a "choice 1 out of 3" but you can actually get 2 or 3 items total.

But they definitely should have curbed how fast players could obtain gear through m+ in comparison to raiding or pvp.

Someone explain to me why raids always had a weekly lockout, hc dungeons had a daily lockout, mythic0 dungeons had a weekly lockout, but m+ had no cap whatsoever and people could poopsock on it without any limit.

[Soluna]

honest question, please let's discuss this without hate.

from what i have heard and seen on the beta only renown (~1h/week) and Torghast (also ~1h per week) offer Character progression.

In addition to that we just learned that m+ gear will be before heroic raid gear.

this means that if you raid mythic, your are done with all your weekly stuff in 2-3h (depending if you choose to do 1 m+ for the cache).

ofc you could also do more m+ for more item selection, but this is very, very inefficient. still posdible tho.

i understand many people like this, because they are free to do other things ingame now. my personal problem here is, that I am actually only really interested in things that offer Character progression and those are now heavily timegated.

do i miss something? is there really nothing to do at max level besides the things I listed? would be a shame if this becomes a raidlogging expansion.

I think that this is fair. Minmaxers lost the covenant wars, casual players can lose the ilvl wars.

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Someone explain to me why raids always had a weekly lockout, hc dungeons had a daily lockout, mythic0 dungeons had a weekly lockout, but m+ had no cap whatsoever and people could poopsock on it without any limit.

If there was a lockout on m+ loot, goodbye any chance of doing your weekly outside the first couple of days of the week. And also, what if your keystone procs to be the one where you are locked out from? You stop for the week? Reasons like this are why there is no lockout on M+. However, I fully support m+ giving less ilvl than heroic raids.