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  1. #301
    The chest still gives the same gear as Mythic raid, and will require like 30 minutes of effort once a week.
    If anything, the chest = all other content not relevant.
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  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    This is a good thing

    There is a plethora of optional content for you at max level - but seemingly not anywhere near as much content required of you versus BFA or even Legion
    It's already better than WoD because of the existence of m+ (which still gives a mythic quality item per week and you'll maybe wanna farm multiple keys for a bigger loot pool), not to mention the optional content. The extent of optional content in WoD was rep farms and apexis dailies - both of which were completely pointless and unfun

    - - - Updated - - -



    So when the game was at its peak then
    you think the game is better with raids being the only way to get meaningful gear is good? Raids are not harder than m+ the hardest part is keeping a functioning team of 20 to show up regularly.

    Raid, M+ and PvP should all have gear that only works in their respective field, that would have been a better fix. You'll see a lot more drop off because of that
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  3. #303
    M+ still drops loot, just at a lower Ilvl and rate, but it still gives you a weekly cache, now with multiple items to choose from, of Mythic Raid quality if you do a +15.

    I really don't get this "Everything but Mythic Raids are pointless" attitudes. The vast majority of players won't even clear 3x Mythic bosses (for a Vault item), let alone clear the Raid entirely.

    Anyone who pushes keys now in BFA are not decked out in 465 end of dungeon drops... the sky is not falling.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by NatePsy View Post
    It's funny, they sat there touting that it was alternative content to raiding but then went ahead and made the ilvl shit. I was fine with one piece per run but this change seems excessive, especially if it's gear before Heroic, at a 15+ mind you.
    We can only hope it will be hot fixed before release, but that might be optimistic.
    Should go...
    dungeons>H dungeons>LFR>Normal raids>Mythic Dungeon(15>)*=Heroic Raid>Mythic dungeon(15<)*=Mythic Raid.

    *Mythic dungeons should scale based on their +n, rather than brackets.

    Mythic+ has become a big part of the wow community, arguably bigger than arena. Really sucks to see it be gutted as a viable gear source.
    If curiosity killed the cat, why can't speculation kill you?

  5. #305
    A +15 equals heroic

    A +15 vault reward is mythic

    A heroic raider can guarantee mythic level loot weekly.....who’s bitching??

    Mythic+ players still gear through the weekly cache

  6. #306
    this change with item levels is so great
    you knwow hat would be amazing
    if they go into next tier
    heroic should be 226, and mythic is 7 ilvls higher (the new bracket they are using instead of 15)
    and m15 will give 223, therefore heroic guilds might actually have incentive to do some tier 1 mythic content post patch
    kind of like how LK was

  7. #307
    Hope they just slap some sort of scaling on the M+ items. They can scale to 400 as long as the wearer is in an M+. This should shut the damned topic up. The moment they hit world content, or raid, it scales down to being heroic equiv... all issues solved.

    If the M+ exclusive players what the biggest and best to push higher then this solves it while keeping them comparative on gear if going into other content.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakara View Post
    M+ still drops loot, just at a lower Ilvl and rate, but it still gives you a weekly cache, now with multiple items to choose from, of Mythic Raid quality if you do a +15.
    Only if you clear a minimum of 4 (for 2) or 10 (for 3) +15 keys each week. That will not become a regular thing for a few resets at least (except for the very best players), and with the vastly reduced drop rate in M+ themselves, the wait will be even longer for non-raiders. That's not a problem in and of itself, but the wait is TOO long, if you're not raiding.

    Honestly, it seems like all the people who are in favour of this change think that one +15 clear gets you a choice of three 226 items at reset, and/or that +15s are so faceroll that everyone will be clearing them in quest greens in the first week.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by Orwell7 View Post
    Then you're not "playing" this game for gameplay, you play it because it triggered fake dopamine releases in your brain.
    Don't go near casinos, please, it seems like you could easily hook on these artificial addicting things :-\
    There are a fair few people who genuinely don't give two shits about, for lack of a better term "visual sensory stimulation". I don't give two shits about a fancy mount, some random pet, a cool transmog or what have you, my character could be a grey uniform blob for all I care.

    What I do care about is that blob getting stronger.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Pigy2 View Post
    What I do care about is that blob getting stronger.
    And you will... People are acting like they MUST get the BEST gear in the game to get stronger... No, you will replace leveling gear and get stronger, then you will get cache and get even stronger. It will just be slower and rightfully so.

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Pigy2 View Post
    There are a fair few people who genuinely don't give two shits about, for lack of a better term "visual sensory stimulation". I don't give two shits about a fancy mount, some random pet, a cool transmog or what have you, my character could be a grey uniform blob for all I care.

    What I do care about is that blob getting stronger.
    Well it still will. Something I never understood about WoW's community is how anything other then the most power gear imaginable is instantly considered rubbish.

    I am on the fence myself about the mythic plus change. On one hand 15 was far to easy for its rewards but on the other a better option would of been to raise heroic rewards from it to 20 then move the cap for the chest to 25 something that better reflects its difficulty barring extremely problematic weeks.

    Either way it seems a throw back to making mythic+ into what heroic dungeon gear used to be back in the day. A starting set for raiding with a single raid piece from a weekly.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystikal View Post
    Only if you clear a minimum of 4 (for 2) or 10 (for 3) +15 keys each week. That will not become a regular thing for a few resets at least (except for the very best players), and with the vastly reduced drop rate in M+ themselves, the wait will be even longer for non-raiders. That's not a problem in and of itself, but the wait is TOO long, if you're not raiding.

    Honestly, it seems like all the people who are in favour of this change think that one +15 clear gets you a choice of three 226 items at reset, and/or that +15s are so faceroll that everyone will be clearing them in quest greens in the first week.
    If you're only doing a single +15 because it's the start of the season, then your single Cache item is almost guaranteed to be an upgrade along with the end of Dungeon loot... however, while a "M+ only" player might only clear a single +15, they will no doubt be running enough dungeons for more Vault options, just not at a +15 level.

    Of course no one will be clearing 15's in Greens. They wont be clearing raids in greens either. If you're in Greens, then a M0 will be dropping upgrades. Do people honestly expect to replace quest greens with the Seasonal Ilvl Cap drops in the first week?

    As a Heroic raider, I went into 8.3 ~440 Ilvl from M+ gear. Heroic EP dropped 430ilvl which was equivalent to a M0 in 8.3. Within the first week of the season, guildies and I were spamming 3 chest +8's for 460 gear, the same as Heroic Ny'alotha. By the end of the week, we were pushing higher to get the best cache possible.

    The fact is, at the start of a Season, even if you're BiS from the previous, you'll get upgrades from very low keys, let alone the weekly cache.

    Outside of Mythic Raiders, (the top 1% or so), very few guilds are clearing the Raid on Heroic in the first week. And even if they are, there's a weekly lockout. Again, my guildies and I spammed +8's in 8.3 and almost outgeared the Raid (Heroic) in the first week.

    M+ Gearing needed to be brought into heel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskeyjac View Post
    Well it still will. Something I never understood about WoW's community is how anything other then the most power gear imaginable is instantly considered rubbish.

    I am on the fence myself about the mythic plus change. On one hand 15 was far to easy for its rewards but on the other a better option would of been to raise heroic rewards from it to 20 then move the cap for the chest to 25 something that better reflects its difficulty barring extremely problematic weeks.

    Either way it seems a throw back to making mythic+ into what heroic dungeon gear used to be back in the day. A starting set for raiding with a single raid piece from a weekly.
    In theory, moving the rewards cap to +20-25 makes sense. In reality however, like PvP, M+ will never be balanced. There are simply too many class/specs to accomplish that in such small content.

    Right now, with gear scaling and an expansions worth of knowledge, we're seeing some players push higher and higher keys... but the class(spec) representation as you get above +20, and especially above +25, takes a dive off a cliff.

    For players who only do M+, do we really want a situation where if you want to obtain the best gear as a Healer you need to play RDruid (for example)? Even +15's early in the season can be a struggle for some specs, especially those who Pug.

    Capping the rewards at a +15 ensures you don't need to playa Meta spec in order to achieve those rewards in a timely manner... assuming you have a group to run with. Pushing it out to +25 would punish anyone playing a non-meta class/spec more than the Pug world already does.
    Last edited by Dakara; 2020-09-19 at 05:53 AM.

  13. #313
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskeyjac View Post
    Sometimes less is more... Having ten thousand spells for every class would appeal to some people but at the end of the day the average player would only use maybe 10 of the "best".

    I don't really understand what appeal there is to having dozens of choices or dozens of paths when moving towards a unified end goal. I think one of wow's major problems is that its playerbase is envious of others to the extremes. It isn't enough to excel at your chosen content... instead everything that doesn't offer the most powerful reward is looked at by scorn even by those who proclaim they have no desire to do the harder content.
    The nice thing for people that "don't really understand" it is that when there are more choices they have the choice to not use them. For the rest of us, that enjoy having more choices, when choices are removed we're kind of fucked.


    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskeyjac View Post
    You can't have your cake and eat it to.
    Yes, you absolutely can. I have in the past. I will again in the future.

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by callipygoustp View Post
    The nice thing for people that "don't really understand" it is that when there are more choices they have the choice to not use them. For the rest of us, that enjoy having more choices, when choices are removed we're kind of fucked.
    What choice is removed for you? M+ is still there...?

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Hey There Guys its Metro View Post
    The chest still gives the same gear as Mythic raid, and will require like 30 minutes of effort once a week.
    If anything, the chest = all other content not relevant.
    You still need like 14 weeks worth of chests assuming you never get items for a slot you already have, which you will ... so with 1 choice a week, it's very likely you wont fill all the slots during a patch

  16. #316
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    What choice is removed for you? M+ is still there...?
    Read the thread. Plenty of people have explained it already.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by callipygoustp View Post
    Read the thread. Plenty of people have explained it already.
    So no choice has been removed for you or anyone else. Got it

  18. #318
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    So no choice has been removed for you or anyone else. Got it
    Yeah, that's a meaningful response. If that's not disingenuous bullshit and you're not just trolling, you're reading comprehension sucks

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by callipygoustp View Post
    Yeah, that's a meaningful response. If that's not disingenuous bullshit and you're not just trolling, you're reading comprehension sucks
    Ironic you use the word disingenuous when thats exactly what you're doing.
    You still have the choice to do M+, nothing is removed.
    You're just bitching you can't get the best gear week 1

  20. #320
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    Ironic you use the word disingenuous when thats exactly what you're doing.
    You still have the choice to do M+, nothing is removed.
    You're just bitching you can't get the best gear week 1
    Oh look, you were baiting me. Shocker from the low post folks. Whose your main account and how long is it banned for?

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