Mythic Raiding in SL = all other content not relevant?

[Redroniksre]

You do realize that 3 ilvls is actually after the level AND item level squish do you?

I think it's safe to compare that to 5 current item level when it comes to actual percentage difference unless blizz screw up balancing.
Although we dont know stat weights yet.

Another thing is that currently M+ dropped one tier higher rewards than heroic raids, in SL it will drop one tier lower rewards than heroic raids.
So that is a massive nerf. Comparable to current 10 ilvls.

Right, but it still doesnt kill M+ however it does slow down gearing and grant a big bonus to Heroic runners. Sure it sucks, but the devs have a bit of a raiding lean so its to be expected. You still get the weekly mythic piece so in the long run you will still be fine.

[kaintk]

finally m+ is where it should be ..

before raiding

raiding should always be the end stuff to do in game not a side even to m+

[Nite92]

I was pushing 20+ before I stopped playing so you can see that M+ was my content, raiding is great and all but I don't have time for a schedule, M+ fit people with that similar mindset

At m+ can be your content, it just has to have worse rewards than mythic raiding. Because the thing that is harder to organize, must have the best rewards, else very few will do it.

[Kaver]

You do realize that 3 ilvls is actually after the level AND item level squish do you?

I think it's safe to compare that to 5 current item level when it comes to actual percentage difference unless blizz screw up balancing.
Although we dont know stat weights yet.

Another thing is that currently M+ dropped one tier higher rewards than heroic raids, in SL it will drop one tier lower rewards than heroic raids.
So that is a massive nerf. Comparable to current 10 ilvls.

It's fine. Blizzard are making "end of dungeon" gear into stepping-stone gear. The main gearing will come from the weekly chest. Loot will just be much more scarce in SL in general in M+, Raiding and PvP. If people think that Raiding will still rain gear on people they are wrong. Loot will be scarce.

[Nite92]

You do realize that 3 ilvls is actually after the level AND item level squish do you?

I think it's safe to compare that to 5 current item level when it comes to actual percentage difference unless blizz screw up balancing.
Although we dont know stat weights yet.

Another thing is that currently M+ dropped one tier higher rewards than heroic raids, in SL it will drop one tier lower rewards than heroic raids.
So that is a massive nerf. Comparable to current 10 ilvls.

Really? Itemlevels on the beta are shown AFTER the level AND ilvl squish? Thanks for that info....

It is a quite big hit, but raiding takes the most effort to organize and thus, takes the most effort to take part in, because you rely on a 20+ people team. If this is not the best source of loot, very few would do it. I just did raid heroic in BFA 8.3 and i only had m+ pieces equipped, which is stupid.

[Kaver]

Right, but it still doesnt kill M+ however it does slow down gearing and grant a big bonus to Heroic runners. Sure it sucks, but the devs have a bit of a raiding lean so its to be expected. You still get the weekly mythic piece so in the long run you will still be fine.

And raids will drop much less loot too. It will be nowhere near the same quantity as BFA. Blizzard have said that the Weekly chest will be the main source of gearing for all players. Gear that drops from directly from raids, dungeons etc. should really be seen as bonus loot.

- - - Updated - - -

by tier I mean minimal difference of gear power levels which is 5ilvls now and 3 ilvls in SL, while still being the same when it comes to percentage of relative power level. Because of scaling, unless blizzard actually squished that too. In other words, SL 3ilvl should be about the same difference in power than current ~5-6ilvls.

I think this is very much speculation. Blizzard have said that they want to reduce the power inflation throughout the expansion. So they will most likely also squish the relative power gain per ilvl.

[Nuciek]

Any M+ fan must understand that M+ will not die, it just won't be the one and only true god of gearing in WoW.

[burek]

And raids will drop much less loot too. It will be nowhere near the same quantity as BFA. Blizzard have said that the Weekly chest will be the main source of gearing for all players. Gear that drops from directly from raids, dungeons etc. should really be seen as bonus loot.

How can you be fine with that? It's supposed to be the other fucking way around.

Imagine the only thing you get any sort reward for is just logging in on a wednesday morning. And everything else you actually do feels like pointless shit. Which idiot came up with this brilliant design?

Killing bosses and completing dungeons should reward you with loot, not with an offering to the wednesday rng gods.

[Kaver]

How can you be fine with that? It's supposed to be the other fucking way around.

Imagine the only thing you get any sort reward for is just logging in on a wednesday morning. And everything else you actually do feels like pointless shit. Which idiot came up with this brilliant design?

Killing bosses and completing dungeons should reward you with loot, not with an offering to the wednesday rng gods.

I'm okay with it because your actions still matters. If you do alot of dungeons and raid bosses you will have 6 different choices in your weekly chest of some of the best gear in the entire game. That's a very good reward. Being almost guaranteed that you will get 1 piece of the best gear in the entire game every week is amazing. Especially when loot in general is scarce. People just need to work for it during the week. I think it's awesome that you are able to reduce RNG by putting in effort.

And I maybe frased it a bit wrong before, because we still do get meaningful loot from doing dungeons and raids. Often it is just no the best loot in the game. And I'm fine with that. I think it's good that they reduce the quantity of gear drops in the game. People just need to get used to it.

[burek]

I'm okay with it because your actions still matters. If you do alot of dungeons and raid bosses you will have 6 different choices in your weekly chest of some of the best gear in the entire game. That's a very good reward. Being almost guaranteed that you will get 1 piece of the best gear in the entire game every week is amazing.

Your actions won't matter and there is nothing amazing about this. Slightly improved rng chance is not a good fucking reward.

You should be rewarded for doing something difficult, not just for logging in the game on a wednesday. Weekly chests were fine when they were a side thing, but being your only loot source? This shit design won't last long. Or maybe it will, if they get enough gamblers hooked on chasing slightly improved odds. Lot of loot box addicted children out there I guess.

because we still do get meaningful loot from doing dungeons

No. Heroic raid gear is, and has always been, irrelevant. And gear that is even lower lvl than that is ... It's as meaningful as dungeon blues or leveling gear.

[shonist]

raiding is great and all but I don't have time for a schedule,

so you agree that is harder, because it takes more organization and even scheduling more time.

[MatPandaZ]

All they have to do is put m+ to almost mythic raid level, remove the weekly chest altogether, and cap people to looting once per M+ dungeon per week. So you can loot one of each dungeon every week, giving you similar odds to mythic raiding.

The only issue is if you do a better run later you wouldn't get loot. Small issue that has a few solutions.

[LostLocket]

I always find it bizarre how not having the most powerful reward means your content is irrelevant in wow...

Perhaps blizzard should try breaking players out of the loot piñata mindset and tighten the correlation between power and difficulty better. That said I find it odd that plus 20 doesn't reward mythic gear beyond the cache.

[Gorsameth]

No. Heroic raid gear is, and has always been, irrelevant. And gear that is even lower lvl than that is ... It's as meaningful as dungeon blues or leveling gear.

Irrelevant to your elitist ass, yet entirely relevant to the 98% of players do not engage in Mythic raiding content.

[crakerjack]

I want to get back into mythic raiding. I dabbled a bit with the first couple bosses in each tier, but I really want to push deep into mythic raiding. After a season or two, M+ become incredibly boring because it's the same dungeons and the same affixes that have been carried from from the last 2 expansions. I'll still do m+ to maximize my vault awards, but I don't enjoy it as much as I do mythic raiding. The only time I hate mythic raiding is when there's people in the raid who have no business being there. Doing challenging content with people who suckass and can't parse higher than 60%, kills raiding for me.

[kaminaris]

I always find it bizarre how not having the most powerful reward means your content is irrelevant in wow...

Perhaps blizzard should try breaking players out of the loot piñata mindset and tighten the correlation between power and difficulty better. That said I find it odd that plus 20 doesn't reward mythic gear beyond the cache.

You find it bizarre because you dont understand that players want to be rewarded by doing something in game, not waiting until reset cache will give em some scraps.
You can realistically farm all M+ end-of-dungeon gear in like one week. And then what? Then you do your serfdom for each weeks hoping this time vault will give you something useful.

There should have never been a correlation between power and difficulty but effort and power, like vanilla up to wotlk (when shit wasn't difficult at all).

[Malikath]

People like you are minority. .

[citation needed]

[LostLocket]

You find it bizarre because you dont understand that players want to be rewarded by doing something in game, not waiting until reset cache will give em some scraps.
You can realistically farm all M+ end-of-dungeon gear in like one week. And then what? Then you do your serfdom for each weeks hoping this time vault will give you something useful.

There should have never been a correlation between power and difficulty but effort and power, like vanilla up to wotlk (when shit wasn't difficult at all).

I would of been happy with a tbc style progression system myself though I strongly disagree on the idea of effort mattering at all compared to difficulty. In my mind if a rabbit drops 1 leather for killing it killing a million rabbits should net you one million leather not ashbringer.

I would welcome a return to tiers but I have no real interest in going back to such a simple game like classic. Tbc and wrath after the first tier? To be honest my recollection from that far back isnt clear enough to recall if the difficulty would be enough to interest me or not.

[Dakara]

Right, but that in itself is actually a problem - no-one is going to take the lower ilvl option, because that's just dumb. So, unless you're running at least 15 or so M+ each reset, then there's no added value to running more than 1 per week, given the vastly reduced drop rates.

I lower item lvl with optimum stats is frequently better than a higher ilvl item with with wrong stats... clas/spec dependant of course.

The point of my post you quoted (where I was responding to a previous message) is that in the first week of a season, almost evening is an upgrade.

[La]

All they have to do is put m+ to almost mythic raid level, remove the weekly chest altogether, and cap people to looting once per M+ dungeon per week. So you can loot one of each dungeon every week, giving you similar odds to mythic raiding.

The only issue is if you do a better run later you wouldn't get loot. Small issue that has a few solutions.

Why would they put M+ rewards to almost mythic raid level? Consider the time, effort, planning, people and difficulty of mythic raiding, now compare it to M+. You think it should be anywhere near raid tier gear of the hardest difficulty? I don't think so. If you can have almost the best gear from doing something far easier and unlimited, why bother doing the harder thing for barely a higher reward? I guess you might say M+ scales forever so is infinitely more difficult, but that's not really how gearing in it has ever worked

What your saying would make sense if M+ gear was quite a bit weaker, however you could get those close to raid tier strength items once or twice in a week, while removing the cache altogether, or something more sensible along those lines, sure.