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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    Guys, ff hasnt been turned based since 2001. You might need to get over it.
    Kingdom hearts and devil may cry spammable flashy combat is soul less.

    I get why they do it because its hard to even imagine trying to build up hype for a game now in the modern market with action menu's instead of a 200m titan destroying a city with an anime protagnist flying around him using variation of teleport strike number 10532 but damn is that boring.

    Why would I play this kind of game when from software would do it 10x better and with final fantasy they could actually do something different.
    Last edited by RobertoCarlos; 2022-06-03 at 07:34 AM.
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  2. #282
    I have a feeling this is what fxv should've been. Which is good. I liked many of the ideas in fxv; it was just rushed.
    Combat is really fun, hope they fixed the magic system though.

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Kingdom hearts and devil may cry spammable flashy combat is soul less.
    Lol. Please go watch kh2 level 1 critical and dmc 3-5 dmd mode strategy videos

    Quote Originally Posted by Thestrawman View Post
    Close but 1991 would be my estimation with Final Fantasy 4. With the exception of FFX of course.
    So 2001?

  4. #284
    I'm cautiously optimistic. My favourite Final Fantasy game is XII since I liked the nuance in the story and the more grounded take. FFXVI seems to have major 'Ivalice' and 'Witcher' vibes. I'm glad the series is 'growing up', personally. My favourite JRPG's were always those along of Shadow Hearts and Breath of Fire IV which were more than willing to have actual consequences and imperfect outcomes for the protagonists.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by unfilteredJW View Post
    Managing a party in real time action combat is cancer and I hate it.

    The moving away from turn based combat has been one of the worst things to happen to RPGs.
    How did you feel about FF7R's combat? If you've played Tales of (any, but Arise is most recent and relevant IMO), how about that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Nah, turn based combat isn't as engaging.
    I've played countless games. I'm a huge fan of both combat styles, but over the years I've played some phenomenal turn based combat games. Grandia series implements a real interesting turn based approach that is very engaging due to the timing elements.

    Mana Khemia/Atelier series with the time cards and repositioning enemy/ally moves and multiple effects with tons of strategy, but it's still fast paced kill or be killed.

    I loved Battlechasers Nightwar (and Ruined King by proxy).

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenz View Post
    That spammy combat is terrible.
    Looks like devil may cry.
    Hopes and dreams ruined.
    I am one of the people who grew up loving DMC, but I remember playing DMC5 and being like okay, it's just me spamming things meaninglessly so there's definitely a common ground there. I think it's one thing to have a bunch of flashy cool moves especially ones that change via what summon you seem to be using; but I just hope it avoids the DMC pitfall of all your attacks just being different skins of the previous ones with minimal to no utility.

  6. #286
    It looks pretty decent from what you can see so far. Use FFXIV style face button inputs with R2 to switch to eikon abilities and L2 to swap the current eikon with ui for player buffs and what appears to be a ff13 stagger bar for enemies and ff14 limit bar for clive.

    It gives the impression of a blend of nero, noctis and gerolt which could be super fun with multiple levels of depth or flashy but janky and shallow we'll have to wait and see.

    My only complaint is the UI. Its like the FFXV ui fucked Tekkens. You want a return to Ivlaice style low fantasy than give us a rpg ass looking ui to go with it this doesn't gel with the world and characters at all.

  7. #287
    I kind of wish FF would go back to turn based.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    Lol. Please go watch kh2 level 1 critical and dmc 3-5 dmd mode strategy videos



    So 2001?
    I dont need to watch them ive played them.

    They are spammy. Just because some versions of that only have small windows where you can punish the enemy or vice versa theres small error windows in executing it on the harder fights doesnt make it complex. And you mentioned 2 massive games already with KH and DMC who are still going and making games, do we really need a third? Or could Final fantasy actually dare do something different and risky.

    Instead of an action game where you get 5 summons because they spent the entire budget on them making their models the size of a sky scraper.

    So forget cool hidden lore summons like Hades, Odin, Knights of the Round that lead to joyous discovery in previous games. We gotta show what we got in the trailer!

    We gotta make a movie cutscene showing off our Ifrit because we spent money on that baby, spend 4 minutes casting hell fire and show me dem pixels.
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    I dont need to watch them ive played them.

    They are spammy. Just because some versions of that only have small windows where you can punish the enemy or vice versa theres small error windows in executing it on the harder fights doesnt make it complex. And you mentioned 2 massive games already with KH and DMC who are still going and making games, do we really need a third? Or could Final fantasy actually dare do something different and risky.

    Instead of an action game where you get 5 summons because they spent the entire budget on them making their models the size of a sky scraper.

    So forget cool hidden lore summons like Hades, Odin, Knights of the Round that lead to joyous discovery in previous games. We gotta show what we got in the trailer!

    We gotta make a movie cutscene showing off our Ifrit because we spent money on that baby, spend 4 minutes casting hell fire and show me dem pixels.
    Thing is tho, you can "spam" in any type of gameplay. See Pokemon or Dragon Quest, turn based can also be "just spam attack x".
    Yes, Kingdom Hearts or DMC can be beaten on lower difficulties by just spamming the same thing over and over, but that doesn't mean those games don't have any depth. They have a LOT of depth. Same with Pokemon even (if playing PvP atleast).

    They might have hidden super bosses that are seperate summons not in the story, but the whole concept of the game doesn't seem to allow hidden obtainables like in FF4, 8 or whichever. Not to mention there could also be lots of smaller summons within the story. Could be those 5 or 6 or what it was "main" summons and then more minor ones, like an Eikon for Imp, Yojimbo or Diabolos within the story.

    I'd also wish they'd go back to turn based/atb, but aslong as the game turns out to be good, there are still plenty of turn based games and even their own spin off titles and their older games didn't disappear.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    I dont need to watch them ive played them.

    They are spammy. Just because some versions of that only have small windows where you can punish the enemy or vice versa theres small error windows in executing it on the harder fights doesnt make it complex. And you mentioned 2 massive games already with KH and DMC who are still going and making games, do we really need a third? Or could Final fantasy actually dare do something different and risky.

    Instead of an action game where you get 5 summons because they spent the entire budget on them making their models the size of a sky scraper.

    So forget cool hidden lore summons like Hades, Odin, Knights of the Round that lead to joyous discovery in previous games. We gotta show what we got in the trailer!

    We gotta make a movie cutscene showing off our Ifrit because we spent money on that baby, spend 4 minutes casting hell fire and show me dem pixels.
    Turn based or menu based games are just as spammy as action games once the muscle memory is down and you skip the animations you have seen 100 times already. Unless you enjoy wasting your time for the sake of it and take 10 years to choose attacks.

    This seems like such a non existent complaint to me.

    I'm all for FF games having more secrets though. Yoshida is probably the one to do it if it's going to happen.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2022-06-04 at 10:57 PM.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakzor View Post
    Thing is tho, you can "spam" in any type of gameplay. See Pokemon or Dragon Quest, turn based can also be "just spam attack x".
    Yes, Kingdom Hearts or DMC can be beaten on lower difficulties by just spamming the same thing over and over, but that doesn't mean those games don't have any depth. They have a LOT of depth. Same with Pokemon even (if playing PvP atleast).

    They might have hidden super bosses that are seperate summons not in the story, but the whole concept of the game doesn't seem to allow hidden obtainables like in FF4, 8 or whichever. Not to mention there could also be lots of smaller summons within the story. Could be those 5 or 6 or what it was "main" summons and then more minor ones, like an Eikon for Imp, Yojimbo or Diabolos within the story.

    I'd also wish they'd go back to turn based/atb, but aslong as the game turns out to be good, there are still plenty of turn based games and even their own spin off titles and their older games didn't disappear.
    Eh maybe.

    Even if the combat turns out great like FF7R its the same corridor feeling where they've designed the game like a hollywood movie where its all leading up to big explosive "Set pieces" like the leviathan fight in FF15 or the Ifrit fight in FF15. Or the Shrina headquarter attack in FF7R.

    Which leads to loss of exploration because they have to make sure people experience these big blockbusters events so long gone are the big open worlds with NPC's with interesting dialog and hidden treasures.

    Its all on the main path where you ride along as if watching a movie.

    The fact they have named the summons makes me think those are the only ones in game. Because we would have got a teaser or Yojimbo's eyes or something to again, ensure the sale at the expense of the experience of playing it and discovering these things yourself.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Turn based or menu based games are just as spammy as action games once the muscle memory is down and you skip the animations you have seen 100 times already. Unless you enjoy wasting your time for the sake of it and take 10 years to choose attacks.

    This seems like such a non existent complaint to me.
    Thats why its about adding complexity through materia, magic etc more about making a build and embracing the RPG side of it with a big character roster with interesting characters combined with tightly tuned fights where it isnt use defend or die to one shot attack number 15
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Thats why its about adding complexity through materia, magic etc more about making a build and embracing the RPG side of it with a big character roster with interesting characters combined with tightly tuned fights where it isnt use defend or die to one shot attack number 15
    I think the only FF game that has ever failed at this is XV, and XV failed at pretty much everything but making a big empty world, they succeeded at that.

    Diverse characters which their own unique builds is the key thing FF usually gets right(outside of XV) even in the less interesting entries.

  13. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    I dont need to watch them ive played them.

    They are spammy. Just because some versions of that only have small windows where you can punish the enemy or vice versa theres small error windows in executing it on the harder fights doesnt make it complex. And you mentioned 2 massive games already with KH and DMC who are still going and making games, do we really need a third? Or could Final fantasy actually dare do something different and risky.

    Instead of an action game where you get 5 summons because they spent the entire budget on them making their models the size of a sky scraper.

    So forget cool hidden lore summons like Hades, Odin, Knights of the Round that lead to joyous discovery in previous games. We gotta show what we got in the trailer!

    We gotta make a movie cutscene showing off our Ifrit because we spent money on that baby, spend 4 minutes casting hell fire and show me dem pixels.
    Well none of the pro players spam other than firaga on some fights youre just wrong.

    And btw im playing through the trails series which are all true turn based and outside of bosses i just spam attack to conserve ep and cp

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    I think the only FF game that has ever failed at this is XV, and XV failed at pretty much everything but making a big empty world, they succeeded at that.

    Diverse characters which their own unique builds is the key thing FF usually gets right(outside of XV) even in the less interesting entries.
    And diverse playable characters seems absent in this game because you're a one man army that can turn into a beast.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    Well none of the pro players spam other than firaga on some fights youre just wrong.

    And btw im playing through the trails series which are all true turn based and outside of bosses i just spam attack to conserve ep and cp
    Its almost like theres still room to explore/improve apon the ATB model. If only the big studios took more risks instead of the more flashy marketable options.
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  15. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    And diverse playable characters seems absent in this game because you're a one man army that can turn into a beast.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Its almost like theres still room to explore/improve apon the ATB model. If only the big studios took more risks instead of the more flashy marketable options.
    Turn based games arent a risk, like what? Poaching a guy from another studio to make actual good real time combat for a very expensive triple a game when most japanese real time combat is mediocre at best is the real risk.

    Do you know how much of a risk making dq12 real time is? Their hq could easily be torched if they fuck it up
    Last edited by Video Games; 2022-06-04 at 11:19 PM.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    Turn based games arent a risk, like what? Poaching a guy from another studio to make actual good real time combat for a very expensive triple a game when most japanese real time combat is mediocre at best is the real risk.

    Do you know how much of a risk making dq12 real time is? Their hq could easily be torched if they fuck it up
    They are a risk in the west. And as a western player thats what concerns me.

    DQ being popular in Japan is great.

    But can you even imagine trying to market FF7/8/9/10 now in todays market. It would be 99% of the CGI cutscenes because no one is gonna get hyped over watching someone scrolling between attack and options on the side menu vs a random encounter. Even with the editing zooming in on Attack option and the creatures left testicle with music blaring.

    Thats why we get these protagonist like FF15's noctis and this dude who look like Korean boy bands members flashing around fighting epic giant battles against monsters bigger than cities
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    And diverse playable characters seems absent in this game because you're a one man army that can turn into a beast.
    If every summon is diverse then it's literally the same thing and if the cast and writing is strong enough they can easily make up for them not being direct party members.

    This game could easily end up being a mediocre ff or worse, but I'm certainly not going to be a doomer about it like it's a sure thing when we only know the bare minimum you can put together from 2 whole trailers that are combined less than 10 mins.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2022-06-04 at 11:31 PM.

  18. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    But can you even imagine trying to market FF7/8/9/10 now in todays market. It would be 99% of the CGI cutscenes because no one is gonna get hyped over watching someone scrolling between attack and options on the side menu vs a random encounter. Even with the editing zooming in on Attack option and the creatures left testicle with music blaring.
    I think you've touched on one of the problems with modern FF. They don't really feel like games or virtual worlds anymore. They feel like movies. Not far removed from the moviegames that Sony pushes out.

  19. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    But can you even imagine trying to market FF7/8/9/10 now in todays market. It would be 99% of the CGI cutscenes because no one is gonna get hyped over watching someone scrolling between attack and options on the side menu vs a random encounter.
    That's how ff7 was actually marketed in the west. Graphics only
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    That's how ff7 was actually marketed in the west. Graphics only
    That was a different time, though.

    If they did it today, it wouldn't work. That's the whole point they were trying to make. We're in an age where at least in the West RPGs are getting more and more action-y and so that's what audiences expect, maybe even want. Trying to go with a slower-paced, turn-based (or pseudo-turn-based like ATB) game makes it that much more difficult to compete.

    Part of that is graphics - people want their movie-quality graphics to be matched by movie-style action. It was easier to sell TB combat when graphics were janky, because there was less action in general due to engine limitations.

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